El Bosque UFO Incident: Real or Hoax?

[Dotini]

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Lightning-Storm-Leads-to-Rare-Light-Show-121648069.html

The video is from an unusual electrical storm today in Ft Worth, Texas. It is showing fairly odd electrical explosions. Are we really seeing transformers exploding, or what?

For comparison, known transformer explosions:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEnNxwTePLQ&NR=1&feature=fvwpRespectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[christopherV]

that is freaking sweet! I live in fort worth, I'll have to go look and see what the damage was! I put up some photos if i find anything interesting.

It's a population inversion I'm pretty sure. TEA lasers work on the same concept no vacuum required.

 

[Dotini]

After failing to receive any feedback from PF members, I received from one CharlesChandler of Baltimore, MD on another site the following rather comprehensive explanation of the Fort Worth "light show". Pursuant to PF policy, I have omitted links to his paper and embedded photos and video. This is the best video I've seen of this phenomenon -- thanks for posting this! These are called corona discharges, which occur when the electrostatic potential exceeds 100 kV/m.

Normally, a corona discharge in the air would produce violet light, and would be called St. Elmo's fire. As this phenomenon is most common at the end of a thunderstorm, sailors named it after their patron saint, believing that St. Elmo had once again delivered them from the perils of a storm at sea. There are a few violet-colored discharges, but St. Elmo's fire is generally a sustained discharge, and the "fingers" are rarely more than a couple of meters long. So this is something different.

The key to understanding this is the color. Violet means an electron avalanche passing through neutrally-charged air, where the arriving and departing electrons simply disturb existing electrons in the outermost shell, producing higher-frequency photons. The other colors, lower in frequency, indicate that the air was ionized, and the atoms were accepting and relinquishing electrons in full orbit (not just p-state changes). The most prevalent color is blue, which is ionized nitrogen or oxygen. Also visible is a blue-green color, which is ionized water molecules. The orange-red discharges are from ionized oxygen.

Meteorologists always say that this phenomenon is just the sky getting lit up by transformers blowing up. But that doesn't explain why they kept blowing up, nor why transformers all up and down the line kept blowing up (you'd think that once the line failed, the whole circuit would go dead, or the sub-station relay would have kicked out), nor why the city lights kept shining as the neighborhood transformers got knocked out. It also does not explain why some of the discharges are slightly directional and/or filamentary. These, in fact, are discharges between the ground and the air, and while power line towers are likely discharge points, they don't necessarily affect the power lines, and the sub-station doesn't sense the discharges, so it's not going to open the circuit. If the power goes out, it's because of a structural failure in the tower that was carrying the lines.

For more photos of similar events, see the Blue & Orange Flashes section of my paper on tornadic supercell thunderstorms. My personal favorite is the last image (and the associated video), where lamp-posts "caught fire" and burned an orange-red color just after a tornado passed by.

Chattanooga, TN, 2010-10-28

Interestingly, the street lights kept shining, and never failed, even though they were "on fire" for tens of seconds. I didn't think that there was anything flammable in a lamp-post...Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Dotini]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13580748

May sustained coronal discharges in the aftermath of a thunderstorm - St. Elmo's fire, or ball lightning - be seen in this video of a truck-destroying tornado?

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Dotini]

Here is a slightly better version of the video of post #4 just above.


The phenomenon seen is definitely not St. Elmo's fire, because the spheres are not affixed to or moving along a conductor.

However, they do fit characteristics of ball lightning. They appear simultaneous to a cloud to ground discharge - a tornado in this case instead of lightning. They are hanging about in mid-air a number of yards off the ground. They are spherical, and toward the upper end of the size range of .5" to many feet. Someone else will need to characterize the color, if any. They are moving horizontally a few yards a second. Luminosity is not exceptionally, but they can be clearly seen in daylight. They do not rise. Lifespan is good, seemingly more than the generally reported 5 seconds, but unknown if within the fraction that reports a lifespan of over a minute.

There are no good theories of ball lightning, but they all fall into one of two general classes, externally powered or internally powered.

Of the three externally powered theories, one postulates a steady flow of current from cloud to ground, J. Powell and D. Finkelstein, American Scientist, 58, 262-279 (1970). The current would contract in cross section at the ball (originally provided by part of a lightning channel), and the increased energy input due to the constriction of current could maintain the ball. However, this theory cannot account for the existence of ball lightning inside of metal structures such as airplanes.

Professor Martin Uman's book, All About Lightning, Dover, 1986, has an interesting chapter on ball lightning, with dozens of highest quality references.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Dotini]

With respect to the unusual electrical activity seen and discussed in posts #1 through #3 above, a forum member took a quick look and noted only superficial damage. He found no exploded transformers.

It is tempting for me to classify these discharges as akin to St. Elmo's fire, a positive discharge from ground to atmosphere, and to classify the discharges seen in post #4/5 as ball lightning, negative discharges from cloud to ground.

Respectfully submitted, humbly seeking gentle correction,
Steve

 

[christopherV]

[edit]thank you. objection withdrawn [/edit]

with that said, they are nothing more than a LASE.

please read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulated_emission

 

[Dotini]

Deleted due to questions of authenticity.

Steve

 

[Dotini]

Here's a charming video of the Hessdalen Lights (of Norway) presented by National Geographic Televison.

http://thenightshirt.com/?p=1160

These sorts of UFO phenomena rank in the "lights indigenous to specific place" category, and appear year after year. They are routinely studied by automated equipment placed in situ, and periodically by visiting teams of scientists. Other than that they are energetic plasma, little is known.

http://www.hessdalen.org/index_e.shtml
http://www.hessdalen.org/pictures/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessdalen_light
One recent hypothesis suggests that the lights are formed by a cluster of macroscopic Coulomb crystals in a plasma produced by the ionization of air and dust by Alpha particles during radon decay in the dusty atmosphere. Several physical properties (oscillation, geometric structure, and light spectrum) observed in Hessdalen lights phenomenon can be explained through the dust plasma model.[4] Radon decay produces alpha particles (responsible by helium emissions in HL spectrum) and radioactive elements such as polonium. In 2004, Teodorani[5][6] showed an occurrence where a higher level of radioactivity on rocks was detected near the area where a large light ball was reported. In fact, when radon is released into air, its solid decay products readily attach to airborne dust.[7] A new computer simulation shows that dust immersed in ionized gas (i.e., dusty plasmas) can organize itself into double helixes. The simulations suggested that under conditions commonly found in space, the dust particles first form a cylindrical structure that sometimes evolved into helical structures. Along some spirals, the radius of the helix was seen to change abruptly from one value to another and then back again, providing a mechanism for storing information in terms of the length and radius of a section of a spiral. Hessdalen Lights may take the helical structure. Surprisingly, dusty plasmas may also assume this structure.[8]

Periodic efforts have been made to create inorganic life from dusty plasmas in terrestrial laboratories.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=180520&highlight=inorganic+life

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Dotini]

On 6/24/11, two simultaneous independent videos were taken of a swarm of UFO's cavorting over London in broad daylight.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_887030.html

What are these things? Where do they get their energy? From the sun? There was a CME impacting the Earth's magnetosphere on that day, and the solar wind density was high.

But the most likely answer is ball lightning, and that they derived their energy externally from cloud-to-ground or cloud-to-cloud discharge in the form of ball lightning.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Dotini]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21128274.400-electric-ice-a-shock-to-the-solar-system.html

This article explains how charge separation can be created, structured, propagated and maintained in ice. This may be an important factor in explaining how some clouds can gather the energy necessary to generate the electron showers required to cause gamma rays and antimatter formation. It may also explain how clouds may acquire the energy necessary to manifest ball lightning/UFO phenomena.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[christopherV]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21128274.400-electric-ice-a-shock-to-the-solar-system.html

This article explains how charge separation can be created, structured, propagated and maintained in ice. This may be an important factor in explaining how some clouds can gather the energy necessary to generate the electron showers required to cause gamma rays and antimatter formation. It may also explain how clouds may acquire the energy necessary to manifest ball lightning/UFO phenomena.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

you may find this not only pertinent to your interests but enlightening as to the amount of charge good old fashioned falling water can generate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-dropping_condenser

Walter Lewin demonstrates one in his 8.02 physics class at MIT(complete with explanation)
(sorry not sure which lecture)
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics/8-02sc-physics-ii-electricity-and-magnetism-fall-2010/

 

[Dotini]

A giant cloud of glowing light, growing to perhaps 50 km in diameter, appeared briefly over China recently. There being no readily apparent explanation, we are tempted to classify it as an unusual meteorological occurrence or electrical eccentricity, although the curator of the Beijing Planetarium insisted it must be man made.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/chi...observed-over-beijing-and-shanghai-60928.html
http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv_en/news_china/2011-08-26/huge-bubble-cloud-over-beijing-skies-mystifies-observers.html

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Dotini]

Here is a link to a long term scientific study of anomalous light phenomena (ALP) performed on the tribal reservation of the Yakama nation in eastern Washington State, USA. This case has many features in common with the Hessdalen ALP featured in post #9 above, and is characterized by recurring sightings of aerial lights indigenous to a particular geological area.
http://www.vogelstudy.org/index.htm#../

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Dotini]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKpECnEgjzA&feature=player_embedded

Here is the first of a five part documentary concerning the Hessdalen lights. The latest discoveries of several universities across Europe which have united in a multi-decade study of the phenomena are discussed, particularly in the later segments. The charming reports of local villagers as well as sobering science data are presented.

It is highly recommended that anybody wishing to learn more about the physical nature of UFO phenomena be familiar with this important production.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Dotini]

From the department of strange meteorological occurrences and electrical eccentricities comes this interesting video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=E4sY98zsBH0

The video was apparently analyzed by a meteorologist who gave the following explanation:

The answer lies in this: ice crystals, especially long needles, tend to become aligned with the ambient electric field.

So what you are seeing is sunlight reflecting off ice crystal faces that are constantly being oriented by the developing electric field just above the [cumulonimbus] top. Then there is a discharge in the cloud, and the field collapses momentarily, and the crystals begin to realign again. Then this just keeps happening over and over.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/b...ng-video-of-a-bizarre-twisting-dancing-cloud/

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Dotini]

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap111108.html

NASA was kind enough to dedicate their Astronomy Picture of the Day to the eccentric electrical antics put on by the cloud discussed in post #16 above.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Dotini]

"Solar Cavity" Explained by NASA

This is a post which might ultimately belong in the Astronomy thread. I hope so.
I post here because of the innumerable odd videos posted on youtube showing really puzzling objects showing up on NASA solar mission satellite imagery. These are largely anomalies to which NASA seldom if ever responds. That is the unfortunate context in which this new video arises.

So now we have an event which elicits a response from NASA with the explanation of "coronal cavity". Never heard of it before, but it makes some sense and it should be credible if it comes from NASA. Skeptics will want to take a close look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=bQ7RaOMHb5I&NR=1
An amateur sees a movie from SDO and says it may be the sun "releasing a new planet" (!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev8JGqDO8nk&feature=related
A related video.


NASA replies with an explanation of coronal cavity, a pretty new term to most of us, I would think.

For a possibly similar event:
http://sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov/data/aiahmi/dayform.php
Click the date box and then todays date - 14th of March, 2012
then click AIA 094 green
then click movie
then click resolution 1024
then click submit (let it load - a few seconds), watch at about 2 o'clock position - which is sunspot 1429.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[moogull]

Why does Texas get the craziest thunderstorms?

 

[Evo]

Why does Texas get the craziest thunderstorms?

Scientific backup?

 

[Dotini]

Readers of the skepticism and debunking forum will be familiar with Leslie Kean, and with our massive PF thread (now closed) devoted to her book: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=426996

I pass along a couple of her recent articles regarding the highly amusing El Bosque UFO incident:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lesli...cience&ir=Science#s782213&title=El_Bosque_Air
Here we have a UAP on video (actually 7 videos) running high speed rings around several flights of Chilean air force jets at an airshow.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leslie-kean/update-on-chilean-ufo-vid_b_1424008.html?ref=weird-news
Here is more reporting on the investigation by the astronomers, air force specialists and such.

Within the reporting is found this provocative statement:
Astronomer Luis Barrera from the Metropolitan University of Sciences in Chile, who has an asteroid named after him, was one of eight highly skeptical scientists who analyzed the footage. He was able to rule out a meteoroid, pieces of meteors or comets, space junk, a bird or an airplane.

"The object performed a risky flight maneuver in front of the Halcones from W-E-W, at low altitude and high speed," Barrera concluded. "It had intentional movements. It moved east with 25 degrees inclination, which is the same angle of spacecraft when entering the atmosphere."

Forum members are invited to review the material, but to please refrain from any reply which is not in conformity to recently revised forum rules. https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=593815
I would greatly prefer not to have my thread on unusual atmospheric phenomena and electrical eccentricities locked. Even so, any tactful and rational remarks would be appreciated.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve