I finally got it. I finally know what women is thinking

[kant]

Perfect your come-hither look. Tilt your head slightly down and to the side, then look up from under your lashes and smile. This pose shows guys it's okay to approach.

http://magazines.ivillage.com/cosmopolitan/sex/no/articles/0,,426367_699012-1,00.html


Previously, i don t "understand" why so many women do this in front of me, and now, i do! So when woman does this behavior, she is actually into a guy! I always thought this was some weird thing women do. Just like women tend to be more socialable, and emotional.

 

[radou]

Well, since it contains a smile, it was not hard to conclude that it's a green light.

 

[apples]

I hate all this stupid understand-my-indirect-expressions/gestures crap. All this pretending and trying, and silent messages, and expectations. I absolutely hate this.

 

[radou]

I hate all this stupid understand-my-indirect-expressions/gestures crap. All this pretending and trying, and silent messages, and expectations. I absolutely hate this.

Yes, sometimese these 'games' can get too far. But that depends on the person playing.

 

[mattmns]

Finally, women know the secret to picking up men

 

[Math Is Hard]

Finally, women know the secret to picking up men

I thought it was "Lift with the knees, not with the back".

 

[turbo]

I thought it was "Lift with the knees, not with the back".

AND keep the load close to your body. :tongue2:

 

[twisting_edge]

Previously, i don t "understand" why so many women do this in front of me, and now, i do! So when woman does this behavior, she is actually into a guy! I always thought this was some weird thing women do. Just like women tend to be more socialable, and emotional.

Guess again: a lot of them are just doing it to see if they can get a reaction. In my recent experience, the only women who use such a look are married. (I'm a good deal older than most here.)

 

[Moonbear]

I thought it was "Lift with the knees, not with the back".

And much more effective than trying to flutter your eyelashes at them...afterall, we know it's the men who got all the nice long eyelashes.

And, t_e, just because they're married doesn't mean they weren't interested. You probably just waited too long and their husband had returned to the room before you got a chance to explore it further. :tongue: I can't help you if it's only married women who are finding you attractive. :rofl:

I do find it amusing that the guys here complain about women not just being more direct, yet it's not like they just went up and told the woman they were interested either. If you're sitting around waiting to figure out if we're interested and trying to subtley gain our attention before approaching us, why are you complaining if we're doing the same? :uhh:

 

[twisting_edge]

I do find it amusing that the guys here complain about women not just being more direct, yet it's not like they just went up and told the woman they were interested either.

Pop quiz: as a matter of reality, not as a matter of ideals, whqt would you say the ratio of first advances made by men as opposed to women is?

I've no hard statistics, but it'd be interesting to hear your answer. Disregarding the "clear and obvious signs" (a claim immediately discredited in that same thread by all the other women's tales of misread signals, I might point out), I'd put the number well north of 10:1.

Yes, there are exceptions. No, the exceptions don't matter. Even if the exceptions were to wear signs proclaiming their status, the non-exceptions would immediately start wearing them, too.

I'd also like to point out that generalizations are useful. Some people find them evil by nature. But I do not typically carry hatpin with me for the purpose of jabbing everyone I chance to talk to. While there is doubtless some some fraction of the population who would be absolutely thrilled by the experience, in general the results would be highly counterproductive.

 

[Moonbear]

Pop quiz: as a matter of reality, not as a matter of ideals, whqt would you say the ratio of first advances made by men as opposed to women is?

I've no hard statistics, but it'd be interesting to hear your answer. Disregarding the "clear and obvious signs" (a claim immediately discredited in that same thread by all the other women's tales of misread signals, I might point out), I'd put the number well north of 10:1.

Honestly, I think your ratio is reversed. It's a little hard to say, because there are those men that think they are God's gift to women who will hit on anything that moves and are more noticeable (though not in a good way), but generally, men seem to stand around shuffling their feet until the woman finally walks up to them and initiates interaction. Ask people in long-term relationships (married or not) who initiated the relationship, and quite a lot of them will tell you it was the woman. Just read the "Girl Trouble" thread. Some of those women have all but clubbed the guy over the head and dragged them off, yet they're still sitting around pondering, "Does she like me?"

It doesn't get any more clear and obvious than "If you buy me a Teddy Ruxpin, I'll love you forever."

Edit:
I was looking to see if I could find any actual poll results to answer the question. Haven't, but instead found this wiki book. :rofl:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Relationships/How_Men_Select_Women

It says:

For beautiful young women, the problem is sorting the wheat from the chaff. Finding a quality mate is no easier for them than for anyone else. They spend as much effort rejecting the wrong men as others spend finding men.
(Another problem is that a woman's power over men vanishes when a younger, more beautiful woman walks into the room.)
In the animal world, females initiate 80% of matings (see Flirting). Males who initiate mating are the males that no female will approach. Men who approach women pick young, beautiful women. Q.E.D., beautiful young women meet more than their share of losers.

Well, it jives with my view that the only guys who seem ask women out are the losers, but keep a firm grip on your sense of humor while reading. It does address a lot of stereotypes.

 

[twisting_edge]

I'm not sure animal studies are really relevant in this context. Remember, I am restricting this to reality: to what is, not what should be.

I am also not referring to all the "clear and obvious signs" featured in that other discussion. I am referring to concrete, unambiguous actions, such as asking for a date.

I don't know what country you're living in (and I do hear it is different overseas), but the one I'm in, if a guy never asks, he never gets a date, not one (well, perhaps two or three over the course of a lifetime, hardly a significant number).

How does this work? By not asking for a date up-front, the guy becomes "a friend". As written all over the place in various advice columns, friends almost by definition do not date friends. It is almost impossible to convert the one form of interaction into the other.

 

[Moonbear]

I told you to keep your sense of humor intact when reading that article! :tongue:

How does this work? By not asking for a date up-front, the guy becomes "a friend". As written all over the place in various advice columns, friends almost by definition do not date friends. It is almost impossible to convert the one form of interaction into the other.

I disagree entirely. Every guy I've seriously dated (as opposed to just going out for dinner or drinks and then never talking to him again because we had nothing in common) started out as a friend first. Actually, just running through a list of married friends in my mind, they all started out as friends first too. The only examples I can think of where people got married when they met as total strangers and started dating that way are two cousins who are both divorced.

So, again, I think it depends on what you're trying to get out of going on dates. If you're just looking for quantity, guys asking out women works better than not asking. But, if you're looking for quality, you need to develop friendships first, and then the woman is the one who usually progresses that friendship to a dating relationship.

 

[Math Is Hard]

The only examples I can think of where people got married when they met as total strangers and started dating that way are two cousins who are both divorced.

You'd think they wouldn't have been total strangers seeing as they were cousins and all.:tongue2:

 

[Moonbear]

You'd think they wouldn't have been total strangers seeing as they were cousins and all.:tongue2:

:rofl: Two cousins of mine (they are actually twins) and their respective ex-husbands. One of them met her ex on a plane...talk about an unusual place to ask someone out. I think she only went out with him initially because she was surprised to be asked on a plane (and he is a very good looking guy, but turned out to be a control freak). Both of my cousins will admit now that they were just more interested in the idea of getting married rather than who it was they were getting married to, so settled for the first guys who asked, which does not a lasting marriage make.

 

[DaveC426913]

I thought it was "Lift with the knees, not with the back".

:rofl: :rofl: Curse you MiH. I actually sprayed my screen with my drink.

 

[DaveC426913]

I hate all this stupid understand-my-indirect-expressions/gestures crap. All this pretending and trying, and silent messages, and expectations. I absolutely hate this.

Yes. Apples is to be commended for his tactic of approaching women without bothering with such useless details as whether they're smiling at him, or even looking in his direction. Girls love to be ambushed. :tongue2:

 

[GCT]

Women and men are no different when it comes to life strategies, the notion that certain behavioral signals from women mean complete attraction/repulsion is hogwash; although such "rules" may constitute a game, the actual result is the direct brainwashing of the "man" and the fun ultimately belongs to the "woman." The key here is fun, it's all fun, as in one big joke. Men have their way of having fun and so do women, it's just that with women, it's more disclosed and not explicit. A woman can implicate freely, however, she can say "I don't know what you're referring to" at any point. Manipulation is fun, the simple fact is that women are able to control a man's mind (most of them being morons) for real.

 

[Math Is Hard]

:rofl: :rofl: Curse you MiH. I actually sprayed my screen with my drink.

Sorry. We have different ideas about courtship where I come from.

 

[Moonbear]

Sorry. We have different ideas about courtship where I come from.

It must be the cat face confusing him.

 

[JasonRox]

I hate all this stupid understand-my-indirect-expressions/gestures crap. All this pretending and trying, and silent messages, and expectations. I absolutely hate this.

What the hell are you talking about?!

Guys do the same stuff.

Plus, once you hang out with girls, you get to know them very well, and you see that everything is obvious. Like, I can tell if a girl is interested a lot easier than I use to.

Basically, the reasons why guys seem so straight forward to you is because you know them. Once you know girls (WHICH HAPPENS BY TALKING TO THEM AND NOT READING ABOUT THEM), you will see that everything is just as straight forward similarly to guys.

In fact, I believe girls communicate a lot better with guys than guys with girls. I can tell when a girl wants a guy much easier than a guy wants a girl. My good friend also agrees. We find it very frustrating now when we hear guys complaining because it's so freaking obvious, but the majority of guys seem to lack a lot of social skills and can't figure it out. They think they got social skills, but really they don't. Their social skills seem to usually be basic and only among friends, and guys. That's why there exists guys who pick up girls easily and such. It is because they have better social skills with girls. They are sometimes called "players" because some girls get treated badly by them, and most guys are jealous of them. In fact, I met "players" who respect girls a lot more than the average guy. For this reason, their success is even higher because girls see the respect and value. Unfortunately, the average guy does not see it. Lame.

Anyways, I'll end it here.

Conclusion: Guys need to wake up and smell the damn freaking coffee. Girls are so obvious these days, and the guys are getting worse in my opinion.

Note: I meet guys that are so terrible in social skills that I can communicate sexual signals to their girlfriend while she's sitting next to him and I'm talking to HIM! That's pretty bad. I call them guys "plugs".

Note: I have a girlfriend, so I'm not a player or anything. She is aware of the fact that girls get interested in me though. I'm not afraid to share it with her.

Note: I'm not that good at picking up girls either but I know I can if I wanted to. Lots of guys are WAY better than me, but it's just that I'm not as naive and stupid as I used to be. Thanks, to a good friend.

Last Note: For a guy with a hearing aid, I get very attractive girls interested in me. I can't really share that with my girlfriend though although my girlfriend very attractive too.

 

[JasonRox]

I don't know what country you're living in (and I do hear it is different overseas), but the one I'm in, if a guy never asks, he never gets a date, not one (well, perhaps two or three over the course of a lifetime, hardly a significant number).

You have to be kidding me!

In the past term alone, I got asked out (definitely not the first) and atleast half a dozen of invites to hang out with them. So, hang outs are different, but they know I have a girlfriend. They ask anyways, for obvious reasons (maybe wouldn't be obvious for other males, sadly). I wouldn't be surprised if they start asking me about hanging out again when the next term begins.

I'm guessing you live overseas from me. I'm from North America.

Note: See my previous post.

 

[DaveC426913]

Once you know girls (WHICH HAPPENS BY TALKING TO THEM AND NOT READING ABOUT THEM)

Oooooohhhh SNAP!

:rofl:

 

[twisting_edge]

Once you know girls (WHICH HAPPENS BY TALKING TO THEM AND NOT READING ABOUT THEM), you will see that everything is just as straight forward similarly to guys.

You mean, like hanging out in your sister's dorm room at least twice a week for an entire year and listening to them talk among themselves?

I went to the same school she did. I went through precisely that exercise.

You should try it. They talk very differently among themselves.

 

[Math Is Hard]

I have to completely agree with Jason (sure sign the world is coming to an end).

In my day, back when the Earth was still cooling, my mother used to scream at me, "Don't you call that boy! He'll call you if he's interested."
Then many years later my brothers went to high school and the chickies called the house non-stop. Mom was floored!

Not too long ago my sister's boyfriend broke up with her (she's in high school) and she didn't have a date for an upcoming dance. Mom told her, "What's wrong with you? Get on the phone and call some boys!"

ha ha :rofl: Times have really changed.

 

[turbo]

You mean, like hanging out in your sister's dorm room at least twice a week for an entire year and listening to them talk among themselves?

I went to the same school she did. I went through precisely that exercise.

You should try it. They talk very differently among themselves.

And so do guys. I have heard men say things about women that they would kill not to have revealed...much of it ignorant and some of it true but ill-conceived.

 

[JasonRox]

You mean, like hanging out in your sister's dorm room at least twice a week for an entire year and listening to them talk among themselves?

I went to the same school she did. I went through precisely that exercise.

You should try it. They talk very differently among themselves.

No, not like that.

I mean hanging out and meeting girls for yourself. Not in your sister's presence, and through your sister. Sorry, but this doesn't count.

 

[mathwonk]

The only time a girl expressed overt interest in me was as a fairly young kid when a soda fountain waitress said something like: "call me up when you turn 18", but by the time i got the point, I realized she didn't give me her number!

 

[ShawnD]

Honestly, I think your ratio is reversed. It's a little hard to say, because there are those men that think they are God's gift to women who will hit on anything that moves and are more noticeable (though not in a good way), but generally, men seem to stand around shuffling their feet until the woman finally walks up to them and initiates interaction. Ask people in long-term relationships (married or not) who initiated the relationship, and quite a lot of them will tell you it was the woman.

I'll have to agree with moonbear.
In my past 4 relationships it was always the girl who initiated stuff in some way (ask a silly question, make a silly comment, do something to get my attention) and I'm the one who sort of smiles and looks at her eyes then quickly look away.
It's the same way for my friends. Talkative best friend talks to everybody, and women will sort of smarm to him and just sort of act weird (always a good sign). Quiet creepy friend has dated women who simply ask him out; no mind games. All of my other friends are women who are mostly outgoing, and mostly dating men who are quiet like myself.

The loud guy who uses the words "you" and "baby" in the same sentence doesn't really exist. That's about as common as finding an indian guy named Raj who wears white clothes with shoes that appear to be slippers (am I thinking of Johnny Quest?)edit: Jason is right. Get some women friends
They'll unknowingly teach you stuff you previously did not think of as being important. For example, did you know women don't love having big asses, even though men love women with big asses? How does that even work? I've never heard a guy say "Damn dude my shoulders are just too broad. I'm too manly!" yet my lady friends are concerned about ass/hip size. Weird! I try to stay away from looking at hips and asses nowadays because it seems to send the message that I'm staring at something ugly, when that's really not the message I'm trying to send.

 

[ShawnD]

Note: I meet guys that are so terrible in social skills that I can communicate sexual signals to their girlfriend while she's sitting next to him and I'm talking to HIM! That's pretty bad. I call them guys "plugs".

I wouldn't go so far as to say the guy doens't notice what's going on. I've had guys try the same thing when I'm with my girl and the only way to respond is to not do anything about it. If you suddenly change your behavior when this guy is around, your girl will probably notice. She'll even take it a step further and think you (her boyfriend) don't trust her (true), you're insecure (true), and you're a jerk (true). If you are confident that you are the best man for her, you won't get upset when other guys try this because you know they'll fail at it.

I've tried being on the flirting end of the above situation and it seems to break down nicely into 3 categories:
1). the guy keeps minor attention on his girl (gentle touching of hands) and talks to you very friendly - you don't have a chance in hell of winning the girl since this guy is awesome
2). the guy acts like a total jerk towards you - you might win the girl but you probably don't want that kind of girl (why is she putting up with such a jerk?)
3). the guy is friendly towards you but gives absolutely no attention to the girl while talking to you - that girl is yours if you want her

 

[whitay]

edit: Jason is right. Get some women friends
They'll unknowingly teach you stuff you previously did not think of as being important. For example, did you know women don't love having big asses, even though men love women with big asses? How does that even work? I've never heard a guy say "Damn dude my shoulders are just too broad. I'm too manly!" yet my lady friends are concerned about ass/hip size. Weird! I try to stay away from looking at hips and asses nowadays because it seems to send the message that I'm staring at something ugly, when that's really not the message I'm trying to send.

Well as a male I'm always saying my hips are to big and seriously they are at the bone there is no fat there what so ever... I always maintain my weight at 71kg, I go into shock if it reaches 73kgs...

I think men should also be just as conscience of there figure as women. Though I do think some women go about it the wrong way.

As to how women think, well that's a wildcard.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Women: here's some tips to letting men know your interested.

1)First of all is the guy alive? good men are generally a surer bet if their alive. And many are easy anyway in general. First of all find out if he's attatched, this a big clue to a guy that your interested. Outrageous flattery is also a good idea, such as really a catch like you! Wing it.

2)Simply talk to him for a while and then at the end if he's not forth coming with a phone number, make your interest known.

3)Men are generally by default social idiots. They can with practice become competent.


4) Men are not psychic, hell there barely empathic most of the time ( empathetic maybe) Do not assume a man can pick up on body signals, do not assume men are not socially incompetent. Playing with your hair, fluttering your eyelashes, waving a fan coquetishly; short of stripping off naked and throwing yourself at someone there is no sure fire way of letting a guy know your interested. Flirting is a good idea, but if all else fails use the age old method of conveying interest commonly known as being forthright.

 

[twisting_edge]

I mean hanging out and meeting girls for yourself. Not in your sister's presence, and through your sister. Sorry, but this doesn't count.

I'd like to point out that you probably weren't even born that year. It is also almost a sure bet that my longest romantic affair lasted at least twice as long as anything you've ever been involved in. I've also probably had a great deal more of them than you. But please, don't let that prevent you from lecturing me. It's sort of amusing.

I think I finally figured out why you seem so clueless about some things I bring up. You probably think the entire world is like a university, where 98% of the people you meet every day fit these criteria:

1. within 4 years of your age
2. single
3. from at least a remotely similar socio-economic background,
4. have similar education, and
5. none are married.

Moreover, you see the same people every day, or at least every week when you go to class.

Not one of those things is generally true outside school. Not one.

Say you are out in the real world. First off, half the population is over the age of 60 or under the age of 20. Half of them have never been to college. The only people you run into regularly are those you work with, and that is Absolutely Verboten. People do it all the time, but people also have unprotected sex with relative strangers fairly often, too. If anything goes wrong, you just hosed your career.

On average, you might run into someone not married, from the same general background, not from work and otherwise a possible fit about once a week. It usually happens somewhere like the supermarket.

Now, assume you approach this person just like everyone else and have a nice chat. You put no particular effort into flirting with them. Do you get a phone number? Certainly not if you just treat them like everyone else. You wouldn't ask a guy behind you for HIS phone number, so why would you ask her if you treated her just like everyone else?

Newsflash: the odds are you will never see that person again. You cannot pick up where you left off and let things evolve "naturally". Real life does not work that way. If you don't have a phone number after the five minutes you spend discussing the papers on the checkout line, it's over. (Note: I've never gotten a phone number in a situation like that, nor have I ever asked.)

Surprisingly enough, she knows this too. It's funny how that works, isn't it? The moment you say anything at all, you're "flirting". If you aren't, she probably is. You can either play along or walk away. Those are your options.

Now, the ONE place you can go which, like a college campus, is likely to be filled with singles of approximately the right age (even if the match isn't nearly as close) is a singles bar. I've never frequented them, but I imagine they are even more artificial than the checkout line. People go to them with the expressed intent of flirting. I expect that's about all your going to get in one of them.

You could, of course, join a poetry group, take pottery classes, or do something of that nature. At least there is an excuse other than flirting to deal with other people, even if the age range and marital status isn't going to be all that great. But you know what? The only difference from the checkout line is that you'll see the same people repeatedly. Otherwise it's exactly the same: the instant assumption is that if you look like a possible match, that's the primary reason you're talking to her instead of someone else in the class.

So, you see, your solution of "just talking to them and waiting for something to happen" isn't going to work very well outside a campus. You will never see them again, and therefore nothing will ever happen. You can certainly try that approach by frequenting a bar or similar venue, but you aren't going to be "just talking to them". Such places are not conducive to that, not at all.

[edited to add] There's a few other people here around my age. Ask one of them. There are other options I didn't cover (e.g., cocktail parties, weddings, funerals, etc.), but the trick to most of those things is you're supposed to bring a date or spouse. No matter who you hit on there, you're hitting on someone else's date. It's considered exceptionally poor form, and you are unlikely to be invited back.

 

[Evo]

I'd have to agree, you will never find it as easy to get dates as when you are in school. You'll never be in that type of environment again.

 

[radou]

Not too long ago my sister's boyfriend broke up with her (she's in high school) and she didn't have a date for an upcoming dance. Mom told her, "What's wrong with you? Get on the phone and call some boys!"

ha ha :rofl: Times have really changed.

Wow. Gotta move to where you live. The Earth is still cooling off here more or less.

2)Simply talk to him for a while and then at the end if he's not forth coming with a phone number, make your interest known.

Now, that's a piece of advice for women. If all women would listen to it, they'd make the life of unsecure jerks (:rofl:) like myself much easier.