Is Steorn Orbo a Legitimate Company or a Scam?

[FlexGunship]

Okay, I already know this is an ultra-touchy subject since the object in question (Orbo) was claimed to be a perpetual motion machine at one time. I also understand that the only public demonstration was a complete flop (as would be expected with non-science).

However, the company (Steorn) is still going, releasing new information, and even appointing new board members (http://www.steorn.com/news/pressrelease/110414.aspx). The way I see it, this company must exist for the sole purpose of collecting investment money based on false promises.

Without getting into the crack-pottery, for what other (legitimate??) reasons could this company possibly exist? (http://www.steorn.com/)

EDIT:

Sean McCarthy, chief executive of Steorn, said he expected at least 5,000 people to pay a license fee of €419 to use the so called Orbo technology this year.

(http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/free-energy-firm-to-make-over-2m-this-year-49707.html )

 

[S_Happens]

It is STILL claiming to be perpetual motion. Obviously collecting investor money on false promises. Why is this surprising?

The appointment of new board members (whether true or a lie) might serve to either show that the company is doing well or that they are doing some sort of financial restructuring. Either way, my point is that it's a move to make potential investors feel secure.

Sham.

 

[JaredJames]

So why can't they be sued for false advertising?

Surely it's a pretty straightforwards case?

The only perpetual motion here is this companies existence.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

I think this is one of the many sad examples of the law ignoring pseudo-science claims until they cause real damage.

 

[AlephZero]

So why can't they be sued for false advertising?

Surely it's a pretty straightforwards case?

Possibly, because the advertising isn't actually false.

"I claim to have invented a perpetual motion machine, and for $500 I will sell you the details of how I claim the machine will work" is a perfectly legal business proposition, though I don't expect many PF readers would be interested in it. Note the word "claim", and I didn't say it was an ethical proposition - only a legal one.

Setting the price relatively high is a standard technique to persuade the gullible. If there are two guys on a street corner, a smart looking one selling teeshirts for $10 and a scruffy one selling identical looking shirts for $5, it stands to reason there must be something wrong with the cheap shirts so people will tend to buy the "expensive" ones instead. Not many people would stop to ask if the two guys were actually working in partnership, and what the cost price of the (truly identical) shirts was...

 

[JaredJames]

Possibly, because the advertising isn't actually false.

Well I skimmed their site and they are advertising their devices as "proof of overunity" and various other alike phrases.

 

[FlexGunship]

Well I skimmed their site and they are advertising their devices as "proof of overunity" and various other alike phrases.

But they have a solid state version: (http://www.steorn.com/orbo/solidstate/). Surely the laws of physics don't apply to mere electronics!

And look! Graphs!

http://www.steorn.com/images/image002.jpg

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Possibly, because the advertising isn't actually false.

"I claim to have invented a perpetual motion machine, and for $500 I will sell you the details of how I claim the machine will work" is a perfectly legal business proposition, though I don't expect many PF readers would be interested in it. Note the word "claim", and I didn't say it was an ethical proposition - only a legal one.

How about this for false advertising

Orbo is a technology that creates energy from magnetic interactions. Orbo provides free, clean and constant energy at the point of use.

Orbo is a platform technology that can be engineered to power anything from a phone to a fridge to a car.

Orbo technology is controversial - science tells us that energy can not be created - yet Orbo does this. Orbo is an over unity technology - it provides more energy out than is put in.

Orbo is a result of many man years of technological development using a "Victorian Science" approach. It is a technology that has been derived phenomologically, through test, implementation and retest.

Pretty straightforward claims there. Orbo creates and provides provides clean and constant energy!

With the sheer amount of crap like this floating around these days it's a wonder governments don't have more focus on education and countering pseudo-science. Can you imagine how damaging it would be if this got a government investment because people didn't know better?

 

[AlephZero]

Orbo is a technology that creates energy from magnetic interactions.

There's nothing controversial about that devices that do that.

Orbo provides free, clean and constant energy at the point of use.

It doesn't say how mich energy it provdes.

Orbo is a platform technology that can be engineered to power anything from a phone to a fridge to a car.

Note, "can be engineered". It doesn't say that it already does any of those things.

Orbo technology is controversial - science tells us that energy can not be created - yet Orbo does this. Orbo is an over unity technology - it provides more energy out than is put in.

Orbo is a result of many man years of technological development using a "Victorian Science" approach. It is a technology that has been derived phenomologically, through test, implementation and retest.

A nuclear power station is a controversial over unity technology, if you try to expliain how it works using a "Victorian Science" approach.

I don't see anything there that a half decent lawyer couldn't successfully defend in court.

 

[JaredJames]

1) "Steorn's final pre-launch demonstration of its Orbo technology, Proving Overunity." - under the video demonstration. Watch the video for the claims.

2) "In an eOrbo system over-unity is achieved by removing the back EMF traditionally associated with electric motors and causing an inductive gain in the electrical drive circuit. The combination of these features and the non-degradation of the component parts that make up an eOrbo system leads to over-unity." - eOrbo page.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Free energy is the biggest teller. It explicitly promises free energy that it can create

science tells us that energy can not be created - yet Orbo does this

 

[JaredJames]

A review of the unveiling I found:

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/mixed-signals-10000051/steorns-perpetual-motion-machine-battery-included-10014630/

Someone on there points out the 419 euro price tag is a rather suspicious choice of number...

If you read through, they seem to be claiming you get 3 times the energy out that you put in.

 

[FlexGunship]

If you read through, they seem to be claiming you get 3 times the energy out that you put in.

Hmm... is someone else putting in energy, too?

 

[JaredJames]

Hmm... is someone else putting in energy, too?

If you're referring to me, yes. Yes I am. Must pass the time somehow, a bit of comedy is just what I need.

Besides, why create a topic if you don't want it discussed. I'll note it next time you make a thread "author doesn't want any in depth discussion".

 

[FlexGunship]

If you're referring to me, yes. Yes I am. Must pass the time somehow, a bit of comedy is just what I need.

Besides, why create a topic if you don't want it discussed. I'll note it next time you make a thread "author doesn't want any in depth discussion".

Ugh, I expressed clear ideas in the original post. I've been watching it carefully and reading everyone's thoughts. I don't disagree with anyone, but I want to contribute. A little humor hardly seems like a crime.

 

[FlexGunship]

I'd like to get a PF pool together and buy one of these development licenses so we can uncover the secrets of perpetual motion!

 

[AlephZero]

Someone on there points out the 419 euro price tag is a rather suspicious choice of number...

IF you don't understand that comment, go to http://www.419scam.org/

 

[S_Happens]

Ugh, I expressed clear ideas in the original post. I've been watching it carefully and reading everyone's thoughts. I don't disagree with anyone, but I want to contribute. A little humor hardly seems like a crime.

Not to do with your comments to jarednjames, but since you are still watching...

I think it's pretty clear that there doesn't need to be any REAL reason for them to still be in "business." Even beyond the claims of perpetual motion, the vagueness with which all the information is presented, the way they simply sell licenses, and the radical claims that are always "just around the corner," are proof enough to me that it's quite bogus. I already commented on the appointment of new board members, and I consider it pretty clever. Either it's a total facade, or maybe these people actually believe it. The only person better to sell a bogus product than a deceiver, is someone who ACTUALLY believes the deception.

 

[FlexGunship]

I think it's pretty clear that there doesn't need to be any REAL reason for them to still be in "business."

I feel like any "customer" would be hard pressed to pay money for something that is irresponsibly ridiculous without seeing concrete of its operation. If they sell one license to one person (no matter how foolish that person is) it would really shock me.

 

[russ_watters]

What would PT Barnum say?

 

[FlexGunship]

What would PT Barnum say?

• "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people."
• "I don't care what they say about me, just make sure they spell my name right!"
• “Money is a terrible master but an excellent servant.”
• “Without promotion something terrible happens... Nothing!”
• "Every crowd has a silver lining."

 

[russ_watters]

What I was going for is "There's a sucker born every minute"... though I see now it may be apocryphal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There's_a_sucker_born_every_minute

 

[FlexGunship]

What I was going for is "There's a sucker born every minute"... though I see now it may be apocryphal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There's_a_sucker_born_every_minute

Yes, that's what I typed originally and then realized the misquote.

 

[S_Happens]

I feel like any "customer" would be hard pressed to pay money for something that is irresponsibly ridiculous without seeing concrete of its operation. If they sell one license to one person (no matter how foolish that person is) it would really shock me.

I think your first PT Barnum quote is much more concise than anything I could come up with.

People will pay money for any stupid thing, espeically if it's some promise of crazy tech that could "potentially" make them a ton of money. There was a "company" that popped up locally that sold penny stocks. They claimed to be able to make crude oil in a heated, pressurized vessel from basically anything (specifically hay). The guy got a ton of investments in a very short period of time and then bailed. This was of course AFTER he had run across state lines due to multiple fraud investigations for the exact same idea.

People are stupid.

 

[russ_watters]

Something I forgot to mention before:

So why can't they be sued for false advertising?

Surely it's a pretty straightforwards case?

What advertising? They aren't selling anything products. All they are selling (licensing) right now is their intellectual property and it comes with the standard legalese that says they make no promises about anything. Even as they claim to the world that they can do overunity, they explicitly make their licensees accept there is no performance guarantee.

It would be incredibly difficult to sue them for anything.

 

[JaredJames]

I just read the entire site, including contracts.

They actually don't specify what you're buying in the slightest.

I find it amusing because the contract says "you're buying something from us, if you do improve whatever it is we own those improvements and you must let us know about them so we can keep them royalty free".

Translated: "we're selling you what you believe is a 'overunity' device. if you do alter it and somehow manage to make it work and actually do what we advertise, you have to tell us and we reserve the right to then keep and sell it whilst paying you absolutely nothing".