LowlyPion said:Family values oriented? ... pregnant underage unmarried daughter
seycyrus said:So, you are in fact, questioning her "mothering ability" or somesuch.
Just trying to get the record straight.
seycyrus said:A quick question. is it the fact that Palin claims to work for God or the fact that she talks about it, offend you?
Certainly Obama is a religous person. I am certain that he therefore, tries to do, and believes he does, God's will on a daily basis.
Unless you think that Obama is lying about his faith?
Astronuc said:It's more a question of credibility and honesty.
Astronuc said:And certainly one has to question why she would risk the health and safety of her child. Without the protection of the amniotic fluid, how much injury was done to her not yet born son?
rootX said:You can't blame her for that.
rootX said:I never heard Obama saying that God's telling him to attack Iraq/Iran .. etc.
seycyrus said:Do you think she risked it on purpose?
LowlyPion said:Do you think a good parent places the health and safety of their children above their own convenience and ambition?
seycyrus said:Do you think she risked it on purpose?
Astronuc said:Basically the McCain-Palin campaign is using the children for PR, but they will not allow the media to scrutinize what they are doing, and in fact they bash the press for doing so. This is an example of duplicitous behavior - and a continuation of Bush-Cheney.
LowlyPion said:...
Which headline do you think plays better?
(After 4 deliveries she was ignorant still you think?)
Most sane, religious people believe God gave people free will to do good or bad. And again most sane people have sufficient belief in their own principles and convictions not to need to claim God's personal support and blessing to justify their actions.seycyrus said:A quick question. is it the fact that Palin claims to work for God or the fact that she talks about it, offend you?
Certainly Obama is a religous person. I am certain that he therefore, tries to do, and believes he does, God's will on a daily basis.
Unless you think that Obama is lying about his faith?
If she believes human life is sacred, why would she risk putting the life of her unborn son at risk by delaying medical attention and getting on a plane back to Alaska that would put her out of the reach of competent medical care for ~1/2 day? Without amniotic fluid to shelter and cushion her unborn child, and protect him from infection, he was put at risk by her decision to fly home. Also, about 50% of Down Syndrome babies are born with heart defects and are subject to other complications like suppressed immune systems. It would have been prudent for her to stay in Texas where she and her baby could have monitoring and medical care, and where any complications could have been addressed promptly.seycyrus said:Ahh, but you contrasted it with the "belief in the sanctity of human life" stuff.
It didn't seem like you were just questioning her judgement.
Art said:Most sane, religious people believe God gave people free will to do good or bad. And again most sane people have sufficient belief in their own principles and convictions not to need to claim God's personal support and blessing to justify their actions.
People are saying that she showed bad judgement, so stop trying to put words into people's mouths.seycyrus said:I'm just trying to get some simple answers. I'm not the one making judgements on this one, so stop trying to throw the question at me.
Instead of all the implications, just answer the question.
Are you saying that Palin is a bad mother?
turbo-1 said:If she believes human life is sacred, why would she risk putting the life of her unborn son at risk by delaying medical attention and getting on a plane back ...
Evo said:People are saying that she showed bad judgement, so stop trying to put words into people's mouths.
chemisttree said:I'll assume that your TV was broken during the Democratic Convention. Did you see Michelle Obama trot out their children? Did you hear his youngest ask, "Daddy, what city are you in"? Have you forgotten that Obama said he wouldn't use his children in the campaign (right after granting an http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/07/13/obama-calls-kids-hands-off-regrets-television-interview/") ... and then he flipped on that issue as well!
Are you seriously suggesting that Obama's behavior is a continuation of Bush-Cheney?
seycyrus said:But a sincere person's beliefs and convictions would stem from their religous beliefs, don't you think? And aren't the religous tenets and beliefs derived from "gods will"?
Oh and by the way, are we now saying that Palin is insane?
seycyrus said:Ok, so it is apparent that you believe that she intentionally risked the health of he unborn child, therefore from the above,
it is logical to state that you believe that Palin does not believe in the sanctity of human life..
LowlyPion said:Apparently being slow on the uptake I wonder could you help me out by providing a list of your alleged merits, that haven't been discussed here?
...
LowlyPion said:Actually that is a logical fallacy.
seycyrus said:Here's basically what I was saying...
Do this
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Position:Alaska is close Russia?
While some might contend that Alaska's proximity to Russia might force their interaction due to various issues such as fishing rights, shipping lanes etc, a bit of thought and insight shows that this position is incorrect due to the following reasons...
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NOT this
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Position: Alaska is close to Russia?
What a flipping idiot! I hate her hair too!
****
(S)he sued Kempthorne, arguing that the Bush administration didn't use the best science in concluding that without further protection, the polar bear faces eventual extinction because of disappearing sea ice as the result of global warming.
Palin, McCain's vice-presidential running mate, has had frequent run-ins with environmentalists.
In her 20 months as governor, Palin has questioned the conclusions of federal marine scientists who say the Cook Inlet beluga whale needs protection under the federal Endangered Species Act.
She has also defended Alaska's right to shoot wolves from the air to boost caribou and moose herds for hunters, and - contrary to a view held by McCain - is not convinced that global warming is the result of human activity.
Environmentalists have nicknamed Palin the "killa from Wasilla," a reference to the small town where she formerly was mayor.
"Her philosophy from our perspective is cut, kill, dig and drill," said John Toppenberg, director of the Alaska Wildlife Alliance.
Palin is "in the Stone Age of wildlife management and is very opposed to utilizing accepted science," according to Toppenberg.
While acknowledging the climate is changing, Palin expresses doubt as to whether emissions from human activities are causing it. McCain, on the other hand, supports legislation to reduce heat-trapping pollutants, primarily from the burning of oil and coal.
seycyrus said:Yes, it IS a logical fallacy, but not on my part. There is of course another alternative, that Palin simply exercised poor judgment.
If you claim that I am executing a logical fallacy by analyzing his statement in such a fashion, please demonstrate why. The original quote is ...
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If she believes human life is sacred, why would she risk putting the life of her unborn son at risk by delaying medical attention and getting on a plane back
****
People are claiming that she probably knew the risks ...
LowlyPion said:Are you suggesting that she hears voices from God?
LowlyPion said:This is another logical fallacy.
Alaska is close to Russia. Russia is a foreign country. Therefore Palin has foreign policy experience.
Why do you think the late night's have had fun with this?
Yes of course but that is historically ~ atypical over 43 Presidents.Gokul43201 said:In recent history, the VP seems to be the number 1 guy running the show.
mheslep said:Obama is going to be haunted by the 'is he up to it' question on matters of force to which I credit his loose cannon statements on Pakistan - trying to prove he's tough enough.
A topic for another thread, but anyway:Gokul said:Can you quote some of these loose cannon statements, and explain how they qualify as loose cannon?
I'd agree that the camps in those mountains are a problem. However, Pakistan is an ally, and there's no UN action/sanctions on the table regarding Pakistan. So making that unilateral public statement in disregard of Pakistani sovereignty, and given P's internal Islamic militant troubles, qualifies as a loose cannon remark, IMO. Actually, scratch loose cannon, he's not out of control, it sounds like he's looking to prove himself. That is, I assert there are more serious threats elsewhere (Iran/Iraq) where UN action/sanctions are in place regarding which Sen. Obama clearly makes more diplomatic, multilateral and minimalist statements, suggesting to me that he was looking for away to sound like a commander in chief and selected the lower consequence of Pakistan. McCain searches similarly for ways to show he's connected to the little guy on domestics, like the gas tax break silliness.Sen Obama said:“I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges,” Senator Obama said in his prepared remarks. “But let me make this clear. There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will.”
LowlyPion said:Ok then what is your explanation of her judgment process in that instance? Just what values do you see that she exercised there?
LowlyPion said:Is your position then that she did exercise poor judgment,
LowlyPion said:and this somehow qualifies her for higher office?
seycyrus said:Proximity infers interaction. The inference was so obvious that it should have been analyzed.
LowlyPion said:Specifically then what actual foreign policy experience does she have?
LowlyPion said:...adventure dealing with a threat that was a fabrication? (Say anything to get the country to war?)
seycyrus said:I have made it crystal clear from my introduction into this thread that I found the trite dismissal to be improper.
LowlyPion said:This suggests then that you have nothing to offer on her behalf??