Unusual Background->math grad school?

[Mariogs379]

Unusual Background-->math grad school?

Hey guys,

I have a bit of a weird background but wanted to get your take on what I should be doing to give myself a chance at grad school (if I decide to go back).

I'm working next year at a well-known investment bank (think Citi, JPMorgan, etc) but have thoughts of pursuing more math. I started off doing some math, switched to philosophy, and now want to check out some more math. Here's my coursework:

Non HYP Ivy

Calc 2 (A)
Calc 3 (A)
Linear Algebra (B+)
Differential Equations (A)

I can take real analysis and/or abstract algebra this spring. Any thoughts on what makes sense? Seems like taking both would be a ton of work but I don't have a lot of coursework so it might be worth it.

Also, any ideas on where I could apply? I would think of applying next fall so I could leave work after a year if I thought it made sense...I was thinking some terminal masters programs but am pretty clueless...

Thanks for the help,
Mariogs

 

[desertls1]

Hey guys,

I have a bit of a weird background but wanted to get your take on what I should be doing to give myself a chance at grad school (if I decide to go back).

I'm working next year at a well-known investment bank (think Citi, JPMorgan, etc) but have thoughts of pursuing more math. I started off doing some math, switched to philosophy, and now want to check out some more math. Here's my coursework:

Non HYP Ivy

Calc 2 (A)
Calc 3 (A)
Linear Algebra (B+)
Differential Equations (A)

I can take real analysis and/or abstract algebra this spring. Any thoughts on what makes sense? Seems like taking both would be a ton of work but I don't have a lot of coursework so it might be worth it.

Also, any ideas on where I could apply? I would think of applying next fall so I could leave work after a year if I thought it made sense...I was thinking some terminal masters programs but am pretty clueless...

Thanks for the help,
Mariogs

I don't think it's too much work. My wife is taking abstract algebra, real analysis, topology, and applied math this semester. She's busy, but handling it. The only thing that will hurt you is that you haven't yet taken a class in proofs, so I'd recommend that first. Jumping into analysis and abstract algebra without a rigorous intro to proofs will cause you strife I'd imagine.

 

[Mariogs379]

fwiw my linear algebra class was proof-based

 

[desertls1]

fwiw my linear algebra class was proof-based

ah okay did not see that

 

[Jack21222]

That doesn't sound like enough to get in a math grad school. Here's what Purdue's FAQ has to say:

Question: You mentioned that I should take the `right' classes. What are the `right' classes?

Answer: For grad school in math, linear algebra, real analysis and abstract algebra are absolutely essential. Taking the honors versions (where available) is almost essential. You should also squeeze in as many other math classes as you can. Other valuable classes would include a second course in linear algebra, complex analysis, advanced calculus and topology.

http://www.math.purdue.edu/jobs/careers/faq

 

[Vanadium 50]

One of the little secrets out there is that there are two different kinds of math degrees: "math for people not going to grad school", which are typically DE + of order 4 electives, and "math for people going to grad school" which is much more intense and more rigorous.

 

[desertls1]

I would argue that for getting into a decent grad school, topology is included on the "essential" list

 

[Mariogs379]

Yeah, I mean obviously I'm not going to Princeton. I'm just trying to figure out, given my profile, if I should take both and, if so, where I should look to send apps a year from now.

Is it right to think that a terminal masters program is the best option and then re-evaluating? I also don't know how funding works if you're doing an MA vs. PhD...

Any help is great

 

[desertls1]

Yeah, I mean obviously I'm not going to Princeton. I'm just trying to figure out, given my profile, if I should take both and, if so, where I should look to send apps a year from now.

Is it right to think that a terminal masters program is the best option and then re-evaluating? I also don't know how funding works if you're doing an MA vs. PhD...

Any help is great

I'd say that depends on your choice of Applied vs Pure math. And also what your goal is once you get the degree. A master's in Applied Math is a good choice for many industries and businesses, whereas the pure math degree is geared more toward teaching in my opinion. And of course, you'd need a PhD in math to teach at a major university. Many colleges and smaller universities may let you teach as an adjunct with just a master's degree. If your goal is to pursue a career in business or industry, a PhD in applied math or pure math will have minimal if any impact on your ability to get hired or promoted through the ranks (vs a Master's). In fact, the PhD may limit your options since many will consider you overqualified.

 

[Mariogs379]

Hmm...

I guess I don't have a clear idea about what I'd want to do if I went back to school for math (I'm not even committed to going back yet).

Doesn't seem like I've taken much that qualifies as applied aside from DE...game theory's an option in the spring too (in place of analysis) though this would make it much harder for pure math I'd think...

decisions decisions

 

[Anonymous217]

fwiw my linear algebra class was proof-based

Mine was also, but I can't attest to the fact that it was a rigorous intro to proofs. I went from linear alg. and multivar. in the summer to an upper division honors linear alg. course this semester. And I'd have to say the jump was pretty tough, just because there was a whole new language and proof-system that I had to learn by myself. After the first 2 months, it got a lot easier, but just to let you know, the jump may be pretty tough to handle.

 

[mathwonk]

the minimum requirement at harvard in 1964 for an undergraduate math major was "advanced calculus and any other 6 courses" as i recall. that gives you the idea that your background as of now is minimal. it also tells you that advanced calculus is expected of most everyone. that being said, your question is best answered not here, but by the faculty of the institutions you have some interest in attending. go interview somewhere reasonable and see what they tell you. do not go to harvard or princeton. you are not prepared for those type schools. but there are many others. it makes sense to apply for a masters at a school that allows you to transfer into the PhD program if you shape up as a good student. Everyone is looking for talent. If you have that, and commitment, they will give you the background, (at a normal school, not an elite one). If you become a star, eventually you can go to a top school as a postdoc or who knows. For now you want some more training and a chance to test the waters. I would suggest the analysis course, since that is where your background and strength lies.

 

[desertls1]

^ this is good advice, considering most of the top 10-15 schools in math will have similar prerequisites in math.

I know for a fact (personal experience) that entrance into MIT's graduate program in math (PhD only, they don't offer a master's) requires (by very few exceptions):

Full range of calculus, diff eq, abstract algebra, real analysis, topology, and you need to have gotten A's in all of the above, unless you have a REALLY good reason for getting a B.

The largest factor outside of that is obviously your letters of recommendation. But if you aren't shooting for a top 10 math program, I think you'll be fine. Bottom line is: you should take both the analysis and the algebra class to open more doors. They certainly won't hurt, especially given that your major is philosophy.

Edit: start researching early on what schools you want to attend, because many will require you submit a Subject GRE score for math. And that test is no joke.

 

[Mariogs379]

Thanks again for all the advice guys.

@Mathwonk,

Are you suggesting I just take the analysis course or that I do analysis + algebra? Just trying to clarify.

@Desertls,

How would you recommend I go about researching schools? I could talk to the faculty at my school about what they think but should I just email department heads at different schools?

Also, any idea how funding generally works for MA programs (that might allow for transfer to the phd program if I do well)?

Thanks again.

 

[mathwonk]

well you need both, but I just thought the analysis is more difficult and maybe a little more important gauge of your ability, and you have done well in analysis courses like calculus so far, so it makes sense to take it now instead of changing direction. Then take the algebra later. Or take two at once if you want to be stressed out more. Aren't you working at a bank or something? two courses and work is a lot.

 

[Mariogs379]

Yeah, hoping not to be that stressed out (maybe that's unrealistic).

I'm working at the bank after this year (senior year).

I'm going to get tutoring from a grad student/go to office hours, not sure what else I can do to maximize my chances of doing well.

 

[desertls1]

@Desertls,

How would you recommend I go about researching schools? I could talk to the faculty at my school about what they think but should I just email department heads at different schools?

I'd send emails to schools that you can visit in person. Set up an office call and talk to the Graduate Chair of the Math dept in person. Then you can ask the questions regarding prereqs and how much weight, if any, is given toward the Math subject GRE.

Also, any idea how funding generally works for MA programs (that might allow for transfer to the phd program if I do well)?

Thanks again.

Funding as in financial aid? That's going to vary by school. Best bet is to apply for a research/teacher's assistanceship so that you get 100% of your costs covered. That assumes you attend as a full-time student. I'm not really understanding your second question. "Doing well" in grad school is generally expected. If you don't do well, then you won't get your Master's degree to begin with. In my opinion, anyone who can get a Master's in math can also get a PhD; it's all about how much interest you have in the subject at that point.

 

[Mariogs379]

I just stumbled across NYU's non-degree program. It looks like a pretty legitimate option to get more courses under my belt and then hopefully transition to a/their masters program. Tho I have no sense for how often that happens and the program expects that you're taking classes part-time...

 

[mathwonk]

That could work. NYU is a pretty high powered place of course.

Here is their description of some course requirements for their degree program for a masters in math: this gives you an idea of what an MA should know.Coursework

As of fall 2008, students are required to take six of the courses listed below.Group I

G63.1410 Introduction to Math Analysis I (fall)
G63.1420 Introduction to Math Analysis (spring)
G63.2430 Real Variables (fall)
G63.2450 Complex Variables I (fall)
G63.2460 Complex Variables II (spring)

Group II

G63.2110 Linear Algebra I (fall, spring, summer)
G63.2120 Linear Algebra II (spring, summer)
G63.2901 Basic Probability (fall, spring, summer)

Group III

G63.2010 Numerical Methods I (fall)
G63.2020 Numerical Methods II (spring)
G63.2043 Scientific Computing (fall, spring)
G63.2130 Algebra I (fall)
G63.2310 Topology I (fall)
G63.2350 Differential Geometry I (fall)
G63.2470 Ordinary Differential Equations (spring)
G63.2490 Partial Differential Equations (spring)
G63.2701 Methods of Applied Math (fall)

Students are required to take at least 2 courses from Group I, at least 2 courses from Group II, and at least 2 courses from Groups I, II, and III, provided that at least one course is from Group III.

 

[Mariogs379]

Thanks for the help, mathwonk

I wonder how competitive it is to get in as a non-degree student. They say:

"You may take up to four courses in any department as a non-degree student. GRE scores and letters of recommendation are not required. However, an undergraduate transcript is required and admission is competitive. Please specify in the Statement of Purpose which courses you would like to take."

I suppose I should talk to the head of undergrad math at my school but I wanted to know about other schools that offer similar programs. I don't want to limit myself, but Brandeis has a program that seems to fit the bill perfectly:

http://www.brandeis.edu/departments/mathematics/graduate/certificate.html

Any ideas?