Can I get a Ph.D. in physics if my bachelor's degree isn't in physics

In summary: That'll make you stand out.Zz.In summary, this conversation discusses the question of whether individuals with degrees in various fields, such as engineering, computer science, and business, can use their degree to pursue a physics graduate degree in the US. The speaker provides two tests for individuals to determine if they have the necessary background and knowledge for such a pursuit - taking the GRE Physics test and reviewing old qualifying exams from the desired school. They also mention that while physics majors may have a more favorable consideration, acceptance depends on the specific school and their expectations for incoming students. Lastly, the speaker advises having a backup plan, such as a double major in engineering and physics, in case of not being accepted or needing time off.
  • #36


Nobody wants to pursue graduate studies in chemistry.

Why does physics get all the love?

:(
 
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  • #37


Aeon said:
Why does physics get all the love?

:(

Because this is first and foremost a physics forum! We have forums for other subjects, of course, but those are basically sideshows. People who are mainly into other areas like (say) chemistry have more appropriate places to hang out, I'm sure.
 
  • #38


This all leads me to a question for ZapperZ. I am a Physics major now in my undergrad, I am also getting a double major in Math, so effectively between the 2, I am getting almost every Math credit available at my school. Still undecided between either math or physics for graduate school. If I choose Physics, should my math background be enough for graduate school in Physics?

Math courses I will have by graduate-Calc, I, II, III, and Intro to Proofs couse, Discrete Methods, Real Analysis, Linear and Matrix Algebra, Euclidian and non Euclidian Geometry, Modern Algebra, Prob and Stats, Math Methods for Physical Science and Engineering, and Differential Equations. If there is anything else I really need, please let me know. I do not want to have lack of math become an issue. It has always been my strength, in fact, many times, my mathematical understanding of things has helped me in my Physics classes.
 
  • #39


@Dougggggg

Lol.
 
  • #40


Aeon said:
@Dougggggg

Lol.

...?
 
  • #41


I laughed because your post beats the whole point of this thread.

I'm not offended nor wanting to offend, I just saw the unintentional irony in what you wrote.

:P
 
  • #42


I can see how that could be something one could notice, maybe I should have clarified with something along the lines, is there any other math I should take or study to be prepared for graduate school for Physics.
 
  • #43


The answer to your question is to be found in the first post of this thread.

That's what I meant.
 
  • #44


If your referring to his "So you want to be a Physicist" article, I have read it and the math section ended with an etc. So I was honestly just checking to see if there is anything else I should take. I don't want to overlook anything before I graduate.
 
  • #45


I think that this thread should be "sticky-ed", or at least linked to Zz's main faq-type thread ("So you want to be a physicist").

Either way, thanks for info, ZapperZ.
 
  • #46


No problem. Because of the comments on here, I've added a chapter to my essay covering this topic.

Zz.
 
  • #47


Hi!
I am currently in my final year doing Mechanical Engg from a Govt college (in India).
I have written GRE and will start applying for universities in 3 week's time.
But, my interest in Mechanical engg is declining day by day. Since my 9th grade, I've always wanted to study Physics, and wish to study it after I complete B.Tech.

My question is: Is it possible for me to jump to pure Physics with an Engg background?
If I have to apply to foreign universities, what are the requirements I will need, to compensate for my lack of a basic degree in Physics?
Will writing PHYSICS GRE help me?
Or should I try for an internship in a Physics related field?

I am desperately looking forward to your replies.
Thank you.
 
  • #48


Im yet to start my undergrad degree and was leaning towards a bsc maths and economics.
This would be having, say, 70% of maths and 30% economics content.
I will also have a few certificate of professional development in astronomy and cosmology by the time i finish this degree.

Do u think after doing all i wrote above i will be able to take astrophysics as a subject for masters and research degrees? I mean, am i technically qualified for it? Or its also like english and physics difference?
Sorry the procedure you told cannot be done by me as i don't really hold any degree yet!
 
  • #49


dhananjay.unn said:
Hi!
I am currently in my final year doing Mechanical Engg from a Govt college (in India).
I have written GRE and will start applying for universities in 3 week's time.
But, my interest in Mechanical engg is declining day by day. Since my 9th grade, I've always wanted to study Physics, and wish to study it after I complete B.Tech.

My question is: Is it possible for me to jump to pure Physics with an Engg background?
If I have to apply to foreign universities, what are the requirements I will need, to compensate for my lack of a basic degree in Physics?
Will writing PHYSICS GRE help me?
Or should I try for an internship in a Physics related field?

I am desperately looking forward to your replies.
Thank you.

golu14 said:
Im yet to start my undergrad degree and was leaning towards a bsc maths and economics.
This would be having, say, 70% of maths and 30% economics content.
I will also have a few certificate of professional development in astronomy and cosmology by the time i finish this degree.

Do u think after doing all i wrote above i will be able to take astrophysics as a subject for masters and research degrees? I mean, am i technically qualified for it? Or its also like english and physics difference?
Sorry the procedure you told cannot be done by me as i don't really hold any degree yet!

I think both of you missed the whole point of this thread. So I will repeat it.

If you wish to do graduate work in physics (or astrophysics) in the US, I have outlined to you two ways for you to check for yourself if you have the capability to survive graduate school. I won't repeat what those are, because they have been plainly described in the very first post in this thread.

This is a solid, first-order check that you can do for yourself, without needing the opinion or intervention of others. Until you can do that, then this thread should not be used, because it was NOT meant to deal with such-and-such a scenario for the possibility of doing this or that.

Zz.
 
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  • #50


Zapperz, thank you for recommending this thread for answers to my questions:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=563251

I read through this whole thread and still have a few specific questions regarding preparation for grad work.

Need I only be concerned with preparation for grad work or do I also have to have a degree in physics (or more closely related than what I have- international relations) to wave at them when applying? This distinction is important. If it's prep alone that I should be concerned with then I can go about it in any way I choose, take classes from here or there and do some independent study. However, if grad programs really need to see a degree, I will have to complete a structured program at a university.
 
  • #51


A bachelors degree is a requirement to apply to any graduate program. A major in physics or at least most of the classes of a physics major are required to get into a physics graduate program. They don't start over at the beginning - they assume you have a strong background in physics, and you need to prove to them that you do through grades in coursework and physics GRE scores. They are not going to accept independent study.
 
  • #52


I understand that you need a degree to get into grad school. I will have a degree, but in a totally unrelated field - international relations. I also understand that I will need a strong background in physics in order to do grad work. The question I'm asking is if I absolutely need to get a second bachelor's degree or if I can take courses on my own, at community college for instance or online, and then apply.
 
  • #53


Ghostie said:
I understand that you need a degree to get into grad school. I will have a degree, but in a totally unrelated field - international relations. I also understand that I will need a strong background in physics in order to do grad work. The question I'm asking is if I absolutely need to get a second bachelor's degree or if I can take courses on my own, at community college for instance or online, and then apply.

i doubt a community college offers senior level e&m or other classes needed to do well on the pGRE . . . you probably need to take most of your classes at a 4-year school, even if you don't get a degree out of it.
 
  • #54


Online schools don't offer the labs you need for intro classes (and I really wouldn't trust them to teach any physics, frankly) and community colleges don't offer anything but intro classes. So no, you'd have to attend a college or university.
 
  • #55


Ghostie said:
I understand that you need a degree to get into grad school. I will have a degree, but in a totally unrelated field - international relations. I also understand that I will need a strong background in physics in order to do grad work. The question I'm asking is if I absolutely need to get a second bachelor's degree or if I can take courses on my own, at community college for instance or online, and then apply.

Unfortunately the answer is yes, you do need to get another degree.

On graduate admissions web pages where they say "a degree in physics or quivalent" the 'or equivalent' part refers to related disciplines such as engineering physics, mathematics, or physical chemistry with an appropriate subset of coursework. International relations with a couple community college courses won't cut it for graduate admissions.
 
  • #56


Ghostie said:
If it's prep alone that I should be concerned with then I can go about it in any way I choose, take classes from here or there and do some independent study. However, if grad programs really need to see a degree, I will have to complete a structured program at a university.

You can complete introductoy classes in math and physics "here or there", from community colleges, at a local state school, or even online. However, there is virtually no way to take advanced undergraduate-level physics courses, the ones that physics majors generally take their jr. and sr. years, without actually being formally enrolled in a 4 year school. Even assuming you studied some advanced topics independently, how will you "prove" that you have this knowledge to the grad schools you apply to? More to the point, physics majors usually spend four long and difficult years mastering physics. It is very highly unlikely that you can pick up the equivalent amount of knowledge "here and there".
 
  • #57


well, i get that its entirely whether i feel i can/am prepared.
I, however would like to know whether doing a engineering from one of the poorest education system in the world, hinders me from getting into hpsm.
Is there such thing like acceptance rate? Could you write that too.
 
  • #58


hpsm? Health Plan of San Mateo? HP Service Manager? Healing Place School of Ministry? :confused:
 
  • #59


a goldee doesnot know hpsm.
Its harvard, princeton, mit, stanford.
 
  • #60


Try the forum search. You'll find that our posts are literally the only ones on PF (in eight years or so) that contain the exact "word" hpsm. :smile:

[added] It appears the more common acronym is HYPMS (including Yale). Even that one turns up only three times in a PF forum search.
 
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  • #61


:smile:
ok! So what's the answer to my question.
would like to know whether doing a engineering from one of the poorest education system in the world, hinders me from getting into hpsm.
Is there such thing like acceptance rate? Could you write that too.
 
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  • #62


dpa said:
:smile:
ok! So what's the answer to my question.

It would be nice if you type it out rather than use a non-standard abbreviation.

So why can't you use the test that I suggested at the very beginning of this thread?

There are several issues to tackling a question such as this:

1. No one can answer it. The acceptance to graduate schools depends on many factors.

2. The test that I suggested is not a "necessary and sufficient" criteria. In other words, it doesn't guarantee acceptance.

3. Did you try the test?

4. Why do you only focus on these institutions? Is it "HPSM" or bust? This is a very short-sighted view on higher education in the US.

Zz.
 
  • #63


Hey everyone, this is my first post here, although I've lurked for a little while before. Basically, I'm lumped into this category and need some advice.

I'm currently a third year business student with a fairly good (3.6) GPA. To be specific, my grades reflect a freshman year mishap, but they're on the 4.0 track until graduation. I know what everyone will probably tell me about being prepared for grad school and have taken it upon myself to self-study, but I'm starting to feel as if I'm either not going to be able to do it well, or that it will be futile in the long run.

The problem, of course, is that my school does not have a physics major and I will not be able to graduate with a physics minor in time, having decided too late. I'm starting to believe (and with good reason) that no matter how well I perform on the physics GREs, grad school in astrophysics would be out of reach without the BA.

Here is where my dilemma comes full circle. I've emailed many schools and they all reply with the same message; get a Bachelor's degree. Being a third year student (going into senior year), I am considering the option of transferring to a bigger school where I could pursue Astro. I am currently not in debt, as my parents have provided payment thus far. If, however, I was to tell them this was my course of action, I'd probably end up on my own.

So I suppose I'm looking for a few questions answered and any advice that anyone would have for me. Realistically, how far behind would this put me? I really can't stand the idea of staying another year for a business degree (that I really don't want), but I'm so close to graduation, I'm not sure if it makes sense to leave now.

My other question was whether or not I would be expecting another 4 years as a BA student. If that were the case, I would opt for a double major (probably Bio/Physics), but I'm wondering if the degree in physics alone could be completed any quicker than four years?

Any help would be great, because I'm currently in a position where action needs to be taken quickly. Thanks.

Also, I am a good student. While a 3.6 in business isn't exactly indicative of a genius, keep in mind I've never really felt interested or challenged by the work I was doing. Plus I was still in the high school mentality for quite some time and completely disregarded getting straight A's. But when taking into consideration how quickly a degree can be finished, just understand that I am probably a better student than my grades and major would reflect.
 
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  • #64


How much physics and math have you taken already? Which courses?
 
  • #65


I should have mentioned, I have pretty much no prior physics experience other then some self-study in classical mechanics. I'm taking Calculus 1 right now and am expecting an A, but that will be all, other than Physics 101 (which is physics for dummies, no math is even involved). Many of my general education pre-reqs will, however, be filled if I were to transfer.

So to answer your question - calculus 1 is all.
 
  • #66


Jbar said:
I should have mentioned, I have pretty much no prior physics experience other then some self-study in classical mechanics. I'm taking Calculus 1 right now and am expecting an A, but that will be all, other than Physics 101 (which is physics for dummies, no math is even involved). Many of my general education pre-reqs will, however, be filled if I were to transfer.

So to answer your question - calculus 1 is all.

You really should take a year of calculus-based physics before you decide if you really like it.

Regarding your question about how far behind you are: you're at about a freshman level.
 
  • #67


You're going to need a year to go through an introductory calculus-based physics sequence, alongside calculus 2 and 3. Take linear algebra during that year as well. Then you'll be at the level of a "normal" beginning sophomore physics major. At that point, if you do OK, and if course schedules at your new college permit, and you don't have to worry about general-education stuff because you've had it already, you can probably finish a physics major in two more years. That is, you should figure on three years altogether starting from next fall.

To save money, you should consider doing the first year at a community college, then transfer to a four-year school for the second and third years. Or take intro physics and calculus at your current school, alongside a business major, if you can fit the courses together into your schedule. That way you have the business degree as a backup in case you decide you really don't want to stick it out for a physics degree after all.
 
  • #68


jtbell said:
You're going to need a year to go through an introductory calculus-based physics sequence, alongside calculus 2 and 3. Take linear algebra during that year as well. Then you'll be at the level of a "normal" beginning sophomore physics major. At that point, if you do OK, and if course schedules at your new college permit, and you don't have to worry about general-education stuff because you've had it already, you can probably finish a physics major in two more years. That is, you should figure on three years altogether starting from next fall.

To save money, you should consider doing the first year at a community college, then transfer to a four-year school for the second and third years. Or take intro physics and calculus at your current school, alongside a business major, if you can fit the courses together into your schedule. That way you have the business degree as a backup in case you decide you really don't want to stick it out for a physics degree after all.

The way my remaining schedule will work is that I will be taking the intro calculus-based physics sequence as well as calculus 2, but that is all. Assuming I graduate with my business degree, how feasible would going back to complete a bachelor's degree in physics be? After that I would pursue graduate studies, but that's another story entirely.

Where I am right now, I find that I do enjoy physics enough to want to study it full time. The issue, of course is how to go about it. I am also trying to minimize the time necessary to do it, although I understand that it is an extraordinarily complex topic that will require a certain amount of time.

Let me pose a different question instead. I may be able to bypass the necessary classes for a physics minor and instead do two independent studies with a physicist. Assuming that I somehow come away with a minor in physics, how realistic would it be to get admitted into a graduate program (masters level) with the requirement of having to take two or three higher level undergraduate classes? Do graduate schools typically offer the chance for a non-matriculated student to "prove" themselves?
 
  • #69


How do you guys think graduate schools look upon courses taken with informal credit only (I know this will vary from person to person and school to school so I'm just looking for informed opinions here). I'm taking a graduate quantum mechanics class, but, as an undergrad, I'm not allowed by my school to register for it; not even as an "audit" course. I'm sitting for quizzes and completing assignments but I'm not allowed to sit for the exams. What I'll have to show for this course is a recommendation sort of a thing from the professor, stating that I took all the classes. I'm hoping to take two or three more such physics courses by the end of my (mechanical engineering) degree. What would such courses be worth, for applying to physics graduate schools?
 
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  • #70
I continue to get questions and PMs related to this thread, and from the responses and discussions I see going on here, I think many of you missed the point of this thread.

First of all, there are already plenty of threads asking about similar questions, and there have been a lot of responses given. Many of these provide answers from a personal point of view perspective, and often, we disagree on what's what. This thread doesn't intend to be one of those!. This thread does not address how more appealing you are if you took such-and-such class, or if you can get in if you do this-and-that. Answering those will require speculations!

What this thread was meant to do is for you to do you own self-test! That's the whole point! Only YOU can prevent forest fires, and only YOU can do your own self-test to see if you are prepared for a physics graduate program in a US institution! In the First Page of this thread, I believe that I've outlined clearly the two self-tests that you can do on your own, without needing any input from anyone else. I also summarized this point in Part VIIIa of "So You Want To Be A Physicist" essay.

So please note that this thread is not meant for someone else to "evaluate" your chances. It is meant for YOU to evaluate your own chances.

Zz.
 
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<h2>1. Can I pursue a Ph.D. in physics if my bachelor's degree is in a different field?</h2><p>Yes, it is possible to get a Ph.D. in physics even if your bachelor's degree is in a different field. Many graduate programs in physics accept students from diverse academic backgrounds, as long as they have a strong foundation in mathematics and science.</p><h2>2. Do I need a bachelor's degree in physics to be accepted into a Ph.D. program in physics?</h2><p>No, a bachelor's degree in physics is not a requirement for admission into a Ph.D. program in physics. However, having a degree in a related field such as mathematics or engineering may increase your chances of being accepted.</p><h2>3. Will I need to take additional courses to make up for not having a bachelor's degree in physics?</h2><p>It depends on your specific academic background and the requirements of the Ph.D. program you are applying to. Some programs may require you to take additional courses in physics to ensure you have the necessary knowledge and skills. Others may have a more flexible approach and allow you to take courses as needed during your graduate studies.</p><h2>4. Can I still get a Ph.D. in physics if I have a strong interest in the subject but no formal education in the field?</h2><p>It is possible, but it may be more challenging. Without a strong foundation in physics, you may need to take additional courses or do extra self-study to catch up with your peers. It is important to have a strong passion and motivation for the subject to succeed in a Ph.D. program in physics.</p><h2>5. Are there any specific requirements for non-physics majors applying to Ph.D. programs in physics?</h2><p>Each Ph.D. program may have its specific requirements for non-physics majors. It is essential to research the programs you are interested in and reach out to their admissions office for more information. Some common requirements may include a strong background in mathematics and science, letters of recommendation, and a statement of purpose explaining your interest in pursuing a Ph.D. in physics.</p>

1. Can I pursue a Ph.D. in physics if my bachelor's degree is in a different field?

Yes, it is possible to get a Ph.D. in physics even if your bachelor's degree is in a different field. Many graduate programs in physics accept students from diverse academic backgrounds, as long as they have a strong foundation in mathematics and science.

2. Do I need a bachelor's degree in physics to be accepted into a Ph.D. program in physics?

No, a bachelor's degree in physics is not a requirement for admission into a Ph.D. program in physics. However, having a degree in a related field such as mathematics or engineering may increase your chances of being accepted.

3. Will I need to take additional courses to make up for not having a bachelor's degree in physics?

It depends on your specific academic background and the requirements of the Ph.D. program you are applying to. Some programs may require you to take additional courses in physics to ensure you have the necessary knowledge and skills. Others may have a more flexible approach and allow you to take courses as needed during your graduate studies.

4. Can I still get a Ph.D. in physics if I have a strong interest in the subject but no formal education in the field?

It is possible, but it may be more challenging. Without a strong foundation in physics, you may need to take additional courses or do extra self-study to catch up with your peers. It is important to have a strong passion and motivation for the subject to succeed in a Ph.D. program in physics.

5. Are there any specific requirements for non-physics majors applying to Ph.D. programs in physics?

Each Ph.D. program may have its specific requirements for non-physics majors. It is essential to research the programs you are interested in and reach out to their admissions office for more information. Some common requirements may include a strong background in mathematics and science, letters of recommendation, and a statement of purpose explaining your interest in pursuing a Ph.D. in physics.

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