Who is responsible for the Australian embassy bombing in Jakarta?

[Adam]

Anyone seen this on the news yet? A rather powerful bomb exploded in front of Australia's embassy in Jakarta.

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,10721281%255E401,00.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/650E5331-8CBA-4930-B7F0-1817D17F95B3.htm
http://www.dfat.gov.au/

 

[Stanley_Smith]

Yeah, I read it on the news.

What do you have to say about this Adam, since you live in Australia ?

 

[Adam]

What do you have to say about this Adam, since you live in Australia ?

Well...

If I gave a damn about national identity and such, I'd be really miffed on a personal level. But the fact is I don't even like the idea of nations. Stupid idea, they are. So there's no real patriotic anger in me.

However, it was an attack against people. I would rather people did not attack people. But as I have said on many occasions, I wish all those terrorist nutters out there, and the state-backed young idiots with guns and bombs, would restrict themselves to attacking only government and military targets. That's what these people did. Whatever their grievance against Australia, they at least stuck to attacking the government and military structure, and did not go for a hotel full of innocent civilians, as those other guys in Indonesia did.

Does that mean I approve? Not at all. War is for idiots. Whatever their reasons, the result is dead and injured people. Most likely the majority of people killed and injured never did them any harm, and never intended them any harm.

Another factor is that they used a bomb, which is nearly always a problem for people other than the intended targets. Being a former wizard with a rifle, I'm of the opinion that if you're going to do it, then be sure of your target and hit only that target. Bombs are stupid, messy things. There was a civilian shopping centre across the road. There was the potential for many civilian deaths. Stupid. For this, I consider them complete nuffers who should be strung up in the street and beaten with sticks by the locals.

 

[Clausius2]

My most sincere sadness about this criminal event. I think Australian people could being targeted now by this assassines. I tell you this from Spain, you know, we suffered the Madrid terrorist attack (193 victims).

If you want an advice, do not change your poll because of being threatened by these insects. If your president has supported the Irak war, do not think that acts are consequence of such behaviour. If so, France wouldn't have two men kidnapped there.

Such error was produced here where unaware people went to poll and they thought president Aznar had the blame of the terrorist act for supporting USA. Because of that, now we have a complete dull guy presiding the nation.

 

[chroot]

I used to think terrorism was only directed at the US, or supporters of the US. Now I'm frankly not so sure. I really have no idea why these bombers do what they do, and from what I can tell the world media gives us no indication of direct motive either. Why are these people doing this stuff? Suicide bombers in hotels??

- Warren

 

[Adam]

I used to think terrorism was only directed at the US, or supporters of the US.

That's just weird.

The Basques are against Spain. The IRA are against England. The cannibals in the Congo are against the Congo government. Half the world has nutter groups attacking whoever is in power. Half the world (often overlapping the countries making up the half previously mentioned) has governments rolling tanks over their civilians.

The USA is a child in terms of history, only a few centuries old. Whackos have been killing people for ever.

Now I'm frankly not so sure. I really have no idea why these bombers do what they do, and from what I can tell the world media gives us no indication of direct motive either. Why are these people doing this stuff? Suicide bombers in hotels??

The same reason everyone else makes war. A desire to gratify their own desires at the expense of the lives of other people. Those desires are generally for power, control (wealth and resources being merely means of control). Control over the future, control to make the world the way they want it, control just to make sure they have more control in the future, and won't lose that control.

http://bad-sports.com/~archive/revolution/goals.html

 

[Gokul43201]

The US is actually a fairly new target for terrorist activity. Israel, UK and India (to name a few) have seen continuous terrorist activity for tens of years now.

 

[Adam]

I often think that if we learn a million new things every day, until the end of the universe, about ourselves and the natural realm around us, it won't be the academics who teach us what it all means. It'll be the poets.

Brothers In Arms
By Dire Straits

--------------

These mist covered mountains
Are a home now for me
But my home is the lowlands
And always will be
Some day you'll return to
Your valleys and your farms
And you'll no longer burn
To be brothers in arms

Through these fields of destruction
Baptisms of fire
I've witnessed your suffering
As the battles raged higher
And though they did hurt me so bad
In the fear and alarm
You did not desert me
My brothers in arms

There's so many different worlds
So many differents suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones

Now the sun's gone to hell
And the moon's riding high
Let me bid you farewell
Every man has to die
But it's written in the starlight
And every line on your palm
We're fools to make war
On our brothers in arms

 

[JohnDubYa]

I often think that if we learn a million new things every day, until the end of the universe, about ourselves and the natural realm around us, it won't be the academics who teach us what it all means. It'll be the poets.

That was beautiful, man. Like, right on! Peace, brother!

 

[member 5645]

The US is actually a fairly new target for terrorist activity. Israel, UK and India (to name a few) have seen continuous terrorist activity for tens of years now.

oh really?
http://www.armscontrolcenter.org/terrorism/101/timeline.html

 

[maps]

Power

I used to think terrorism was only directed at the US, or supporters of the US. Now I'm frankly not so sure. I really have no idea why these bombers do what they do, and from what I can tell the world media gives us no indication of direct motive either. Why are these people doing this stuff? Suicide bombers in hotels??
- Warren

Simple! They do it for POWER! There is no other reason. They say they are serving their religious causes. WRONG! Islam is a peaceful religion which preaches tolerance. The terrorists mindlessly kill and maim innocent women and children because they want the power to control people, religions (of their making), and entire countries. If they, and other religious and nationalist fanatics everywhere (including the U.S.), are not able to win people over to their way of thinking using conventional means of negotiation, they resort to mindless, horrible, insane violence. How stupid!

("Let's blow them up so they will see the light".)

Now I have a simple question. If every so-called Islamic martyr goes to Islamic heaven, they are supposedly rewarded in a land flowing with milk and honey with seventy two (72) virgins. Just where the hell are they getting all of these virgins anyway?
Cheers all - MAPS

 

[The Green Giant]

What about russia?

What about Russia? They have had more serious attacks than the states or most others. Like the two plane crashes a while back. Russia has been a serious Terrorist target for years now.

 

[chroot]

True, and the Russians are not powerful in any sense. But the Chechen rebels are not quite in the same boat with Al-Quaeda, are they?

- Warren

 

[Adam]

Depends how you look at it. If people deliberately target civilians, I put them in the exact same boat. Whether they are a state-controlled bunch of guys with guns, not controlled by a state, or individuals.

 

[kat]

Hmmm really Adam, despite their cause being fighting occupation and oppression?

 

[JohnDubYa]

I tend to agree (gulp) with Adam. A fighter loses all credibility regarding cause as soon as he intentionally targets civilians.

 

[Adam]

Hmmm really Adam, despite their cause being fighting occupation and oppression?

I wonder how many times I've said as much...

 

[Clausius2]

I used to think terrorism was only directed at the US, or supporters of the US. Now I'm frankly not so sure.

- Warren

:rofl: Sure not. Terrorism was invented a lot of years ago before the attacks of 11th September. There have been two typical nations that has suffered the TRUE terrorism, that true terrorism is which kills people periodically, each week, each month. This has happened for a lot of years in England (IRA) and Spain (ETA). Here we have near 1000 dead man, children and women, since 1963. We know very well what is terrorism, better than other people that has found terrorism as a threatening last decade.

I'm not critizising you and US people, but please, when you talk about terrorism take into account there are foreign people (like spanish people) who have a "Ph.D" in terrorism problems, and have lived a lot of near attacks. It would be excellent all of us would be reported enough and we wouldn't think we are the first in the world suffering this ****. And european people have that impression of US people sometimes, I assure it to you.

 

[yogiwp]

Hi,

I actually live in Jakarta, Indonesia where they bombed J.W. Marriott hotel last year and the Australian embassy yesterday. Very very sad :(
Most of casualities are local (Indonesian) people. However Australian gov. have been very generous providing us help with investigations and such.

I just want to say that most of us here in Indonesia are nice, peaceful people. It just happens that we have some plain evil fundamentalists here :( I don't know what else to say.

 

[maps]

Chechen Terrorists

True, and the Russians are not powerful in any sense. But the Chechen rebels are not quite in the same boat with Al-Quaeda, are they?
- Warren

First, never ever underestimate the Russians. They are a determined and still powerful nation we would do well to keep an eye on in the future. Remember the Cold War of 1946 to 1990, 54 years when we were terrified they would start a nuclear holocaust.

Second, Chechnia is, and has been a Russian province for almost 100 years. There are a militant few trying to secede and set up there own Country. Chechnia just recently had an democratic style election and over 67% of the electorate voted to remain a Russian province. Ergo, since the militant few didn't get their way, they have resorted to terrorism killing innocent civilian men, women and children. So, as I said earlier, they are fighting for POWER. Nothing else, just pure raw power. Actually the attacks by the Chechin terrorists, which also included a number of foreign Arab fighters, were aided by Al-Qaeda in their quest for dominance.

Yes, Chechnia is predominantly Muslim and again they have had their Religion hi-jacked by those who would use it to further their own ends.

Suppose that the terrorists succeed. Who would they install to run Chechnia? Why themselves, of course. So again it is nothing but power that they seek.

Just as an aside, I notice that those who are advocating the overthrow of the duly elected Government are not those that are fighting or blowing themselves up.

 

[Adam]

Hi,

I actually live in Jakarta, Indonesia where they bombed J.W. Marriott hotel last year and the Australian embassy yesterday. Very very sad :(
Most of casualities are local (Indonesian) people. However Australian gov. have been very generous providing us help with investigations and such.

I just want to say that most of us here in Indonesia are nice, peaceful people. It just happens that we have some plain evil fundamentalists here :( I don't know what else to say.

Yes, I'm aware of this. Most killed in the hotel bomb were Indonesians. I think most killed in this bomb, too, were locals. I have a very good friend over there, and hope to go back there some day to visit.

 

[studentx]

Islam is the problem, two thirds of the worlds conflicts involve Islam, and today it almost has a monopoly when it comes to terrorism.
Also the terror that we face today is apocalyptic, so its kinda diffrent than what the IRA did.

 

[Adam]

Islam is the problem, two thirds of the worlds conflicts involve Islam, and today it almost has a monopoly when it comes to terrorism.

Thank you, studentx, for finally coming out of the closet and showing your true colours. Given this little gem from you, it should allow readers to view your other posts in an appropriate light.

 

[JohnDubYa]

"appropriate light" = ad hominem.

studentx' reasoning should stand on its own.

 

[Adam]

Replace the word "reasoning" with an antonym, and maybe.

Is it an ad hominem to thank someone for clarifying their position?

 

[JohnDubYa]

Nope. But you did more than that.

 

[GENIERE]

First, never ever underestimate the Russians…

The last rational Canadian?

Islam is the problem, two thirds of the worlds conflicts involve Islam, and today it almost has a monopoly when it comes to terrorism…

Tsk,tsk, truth is not a substitute for being politically correct. Please edit your post by substituting “Christianity” for “Islam”. If you insist on using “Islam” you must replace “terrorism” with “freedom fighter”. Or… you could be a coward like me and refer to Arab sources:

http://www.hallindseyoracle.com/articles.asp?ArticleID=8115
Al-Rashed wrote in his daily column for the pan-Arab Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper:
Most perpetrators of suicide operations in buses, schools and residential buildings around the world for the past 10 years have been Muslims. Muslims will be unable to cleanse their image unless "we admit the scandalous facts," rather than offer condemnations or justifications.
Egypt's top cleric, Grand Sheik Mohammed Sayed Tantawi also spoke out against this latest outrage: "You are taking Islam as a cover and it is a deceptive cover; those who carry out the kidnappings are criminals, not Muslims."


--

 

[Adam]

What was the death toll in Rwanda? Three-quarters of a million civilians stabbed, hacked, clubbed, shot, raped, and in general screwed over? And you know how many people there are Muslims? One per cent.

Yeah, let's all stand in line for the Five Minute Hate session.

 

[JohnDubYa]

Try 14%. But I agree that Islam had nothing to do with the genocide. How that fact is relevant I am not sure.

 

[Adam]

Wasn't it terrorism? Surely the numbers make that a far larger example of terrorism than all the bus bombings combined?

SBS World Guide says 1%.
CIA says 4.6%: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/rw.html#People

 

[studentx]

Thank you, studentx, for finally coming out of the closet and showing your true colours. Given this little gem from you, it should allow readers to view your other posts in an appropriate light.

I always knew you had a problem interpreting the truth

 

[studentx]

Wasn't it terrorism? Surely the numbers make that a far larger example of terrorism than all the bus bombings combined?

SBS World Guide says 1%.
CIA says 4.6%: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/rw.html#People

God, you like to twist the truth don't you? If Rwanda is terrorism, then its not just the carbombs which add up to Islamic terrorism is it? Like i said, 2/3 of the worlds conflicts involve Islam, has it occurred to you that Rwanda is perhaps part of the other third?

 

[Adam]

Like i said, 2/3 of the worlds conflicts involve Islam,

No, they don't.

 

[studentx]

At least open your closet Adam, your no good blind.

 

[Adam]

Like i said, 2/3 of the worlds conflicts involve Islam,

Support the assertion.