The Math You Don't Learn is Harder Still

  • Thread starter twisting_edge
  • Start date
In summary: I don't really see how this teaching philosophy is a bad thing. The kids are learning at a much faster pace and they're not being inundated with information they may not be able to understand.
  • #106
arildno said:
Take heart. The situation is even worse here in Norway. :smile: :grumpy:
I would not have thought it possible, but you are right.

Note that these are just the math scores, below. The 2003 eighth grade science scores are also on that page, table 9.

From http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2005/timss03/tables.asp" [Broken] (figures in table 3)
Table 3. Average mathematics scale scores of eighth-grade students, by country: 2003 ('+' = higher than US average, '•' = not measurably different, '-' = lower)
Country Average score
– International average1 466

+ Singapore 605
+ Korea, Republic of 589
+ Hong Kong SAR2,3 586
+ Chinese Taipei 585
+ Japan 570
+ Belgium-Flemish 537
+ Netherlands2 536
+ Estonia 531
+ Hungary 529
• Malaysia 508
• Latvia 508
• Russian Federation 508
• Slovak Republic 508
• Australia 505
• (United States) 504
• Lithuania4 502
• Sweden 499
• Scotland2 498
• (Israel) 496
• New Zealand 494
– Slovenia 493
– Italy 484
– Armenia 478
– Serbia4 477
– Bulgaria 476
– Romania 475
– Norway 461
– Moldova, Republic of 460
– Cyprus 459
– (Macedonia, Republic of) 435
– Lebanon 433
– Jordan 424
– Iran, Islamic Republic of 411
– Indonesia4 411
– Tunisia 410
– Egypt 406
– Bahrain 401
– Palestinian National Authority 390
– Chile 387
– (Morocco) 387
– Philippines 378
– Botswana 366
– Saudi Arabia 332
– Ghana 276
– South Africa 264
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #107
Yeah, it is extremely disheartening.
We have some insane individuals in positions of power who have been bent upon wrecking the Norwegian school (which was excellent in the early 80's).

The gurus on the faculty of pedagogics (they quarreled themselves to get their own faculty!) have, among other ideas, advocated the abolition of mathematics as a separate subject in school.
For example, maths should be "integrated" in other subjects like physical education. In all seriousness, a guru said that kids would learn maths better if they were to "calculate" the angle between the skis of an athlete climbing up a slope, rather than learning "abstract maths" like trigonometry.

The situation in Norway is quite horrifying.
 
  • #108
arildno said:
For example, maths should be "integrated" in other subjects like physical education. In all seriousness, a guru said that kids would learn maths better if they were to "calculate" the angle between the skis of an athlete climbing up a slope, rather than learning "abstract maths" like trigonometry.
That particular example doesn't sound too bad, since it is really just a word-problem. Those things were common even in the antediluvian days when I memorizing multiplication tables. It's sort of a non sequitur to suggest not teaching trigonometry, however, since that is how you would go about calculating the angle of the skis. So I assume the reality must be a bit worse than simply using word problems to integrate the subject matter.

Note that I didn't just memorize multiplication tables: I was fortunately on the cusp of a prior round of "old math" and "new math" debates. We were taught how to build our own multiplication tables before we were told we'd have to memorize the things even if we knew how to build them from scratch. "You're not always going to have time to work it out. You need to simply know the answers," I was told (and more than once, since I tended to protest rather loudly at the inanity of it several times).

Net result? I became good enough at building the things that people assumed I must have them memorized to do it so quickly. Whatever works, y'know?
 
  • #109
No trig. involved, it is after all far more "practical" to use a half-disk with angles inscribed upon it than using dreary trig, isn't it?
 
  • #110
twisting_edge said:
"You're not always going to have time to work it out. You need to simply know the answers," I was told (and more than once, since I tended to protest rather loudly at the inanity of it several times).

It's true, though. Knowing how to do quick multiplication (or at least a quick estimate) in your head is really useful in the later years. You should know the technique for multiplying large numbers and memorize smaller numbers (1-10 at least).

Ever meet people who can't do those small multiplications? It's really kind of scary.
 
  • #111
Alkatran said:
It's true, though. Knowing how to do quick multiplication (or at least a quick estimate) in your head is really useful in the later years. You should know the technique for multiplying large numbers and memorize smaller numbers (1-10 at least).

Ever meet people who can't do those small multiplications? It's really kind of scary.
Even more so for calculus. As I wrote earlier in this topic
twisting_edge said:
It's a lot like entry level calculus. Simply being able to solve the problem with sufficient thought isn't adequate. Being able to solve it almost without thinking is vital if you want to move beyond it. Yes, everyone knows you can derive the division rule from the multiplcation rule. But, as one of my professors said, "I don't care if you've taken five qualudes and passed out in a puddle of beer. If I roll you over and shout, 'Division!', I want you to tell me this," as he pointed at the board.
I meant to write "Division Rule" in the quote, but I missed that part. It should have been clear from context. Also, he smacked the board, he didn't just point at it. Moreover, it's correctly spelt "quaaludes".
 
  • #112
Alkatran said:
Ever meet people who can't do those small multiplications? It's really kind of scary.
It's even scarier when you try to buy something at a convenience store and the cash register has crapped out, and the clerk freaks. You buy gas (taxes computed at the pump), a non-taxable food item, and another item that has a 5% sales tax. You need to get to where you are going and can't wait for the register to get fixed (simple reset, likely) but you can't convince the clerk that it's OK to add 5% to the cost of the taxable item and then add the gas and the non-taxable item. How anybody can get through high school and not have this very low-level grasp of math is beyond me.
 
  • #113
turbo-1 said:
It's even scarier when you try to buy something at a convenience store and the cash register has crapped out, and the clerk freaks. You buy gas (taxes computed at the pump), a non-taxable food item, and another item that has a 5% sales tax. You need to get to where you are going and can't wait for the register to get fixed (simple reset, likely) but you can't convince the clerk that it's OK to add 5% to the cost of the taxable item and then add the gas and the non-taxable item. How anybody can get through high school and not have this very low-level grasp of math is beyond me.

I really hope it's because they're not sure whether or not taxes apply to the given items. Well, more "wish" than "hope." :cry:

In my perfect world, everyone would know arithmetic and everyone would know OF higher mathematics (ie, that it's not arithmetic).
 
<h2>What is "The Math You Don't Learn is Harder Still"?</h2><p>"The Math You Don't Learn is Harder Still" is a concept that refers to the idea that as you progress in your mathematical education, the concepts and problems become increasingly difficult. It suggests that the math you learn in school is just the foundation for more complex and challenging math that is used in higher education and in real-world applications.</p><h2>Why is it important to understand "The Math You Don't Learn is Harder Still"?</h2><p>Understanding this concept is important because it helps students and educators to have realistic expectations and to be prepared for the challenges that come with higher levels of math. It also emphasizes the importance of building a strong foundation in math to be able to tackle more advanced topics.</p><h2>What are some examples of "The Math You Don't Learn is Harder Still"?</h2><p>Examples of "The Math You Don't Learn is Harder Still" include advanced topics such as calculus, linear algebra, and differential equations. These concepts require a deep understanding of mathematical principles and can be challenging for students who have not built a strong foundation in math.</p><h2>How can I prepare for "The Math You Don't Learn is Harder Still"?</h2><p>To prepare for more difficult math concepts, it is important to have a strong understanding of the basics. This includes practicing regularly, seeking help when needed, and reviewing previous concepts to ensure a solid understanding. It is also helpful to develop problem-solving skills and critical thinking abilities.</p><h2>Is "The Math You Don't Learn is Harder Still" true for all students?</h2><p>While it is generally true that higher levels of math become more challenging, every student learns at their own pace and may have different strengths and weaknesses in math. Some students may find certain concepts easier than others, and that is perfectly normal. It is important to focus on your own progress and not compare yourself to others when it comes to math education.</p>

What is "The Math You Don't Learn is Harder Still"?

"The Math You Don't Learn is Harder Still" is a concept that refers to the idea that as you progress in your mathematical education, the concepts and problems become increasingly difficult. It suggests that the math you learn in school is just the foundation for more complex and challenging math that is used in higher education and in real-world applications.

Why is it important to understand "The Math You Don't Learn is Harder Still"?

Understanding this concept is important because it helps students and educators to have realistic expectations and to be prepared for the challenges that come with higher levels of math. It also emphasizes the importance of building a strong foundation in math to be able to tackle more advanced topics.

What are some examples of "The Math You Don't Learn is Harder Still"?

Examples of "The Math You Don't Learn is Harder Still" include advanced topics such as calculus, linear algebra, and differential equations. These concepts require a deep understanding of mathematical principles and can be challenging for students who have not built a strong foundation in math.

How can I prepare for "The Math You Don't Learn is Harder Still"?

To prepare for more difficult math concepts, it is important to have a strong understanding of the basics. This includes practicing regularly, seeking help when needed, and reviewing previous concepts to ensure a solid understanding. It is also helpful to develop problem-solving skills and critical thinking abilities.

Is "The Math You Don't Learn is Harder Still" true for all students?

While it is generally true that higher levels of math become more challenging, every student learns at their own pace and may have different strengths and weaknesses in math. Some students may find certain concepts easier than others, and that is perfectly normal. It is important to focus on your own progress and not compare yourself to others when it comes to math education.

Similar threads

  • STEM Educators and Teaching
Replies
18
Views
3K
  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
11
Views
1K
  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
22
Views
3K
  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • Math Proof Training and Practice
2
Replies
67
Views
10K
  • Art, Music, History, and Linguistics
Replies
1
Views
1K
Back
Top