Boy, 8, shoots himself to death at Mass. gun show

[rootX]

Certainly letting children 'play' with guns would be reckless and irresponsible. As far as I know, most adults with guns do not let children play with them. On the other hand, children do play with toy guns, water pistols, cap guns, and there is some theory that letting children play with toy weapons is not conducive to a more peaceful society.

Yes, that what I was thinking. These tiny things determine the behavior and actions of the future society.

That also includes violent games, movies etc ..
In old days, no one really cared what children do, but now I see (at least in my country)
that they try to not to expose children to any violence or weapons, rather instill peace/morals into their minds through all those children movies or cartoons. That's why I really love Hayao Miyazaki movies. They are simple yet deliver very powerful meanings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayao_Miyazaki#Themes_and_devices

 

[drankin]

Yes, that what I was thinking. These tiny things determine the behavior and actions of the future society.

That also includes violent games, movies etc ..
In old days, no one really cared what children do, but now I see (at least in my country)
that they try to not to expose children to any violence or weapons, rather instill peace/morals into their minds through all those children movies or cartoons. That's why I really love Hayao Miyazaki movies. They are simple yet deliver very powerful meanings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayao_Miyazaki#Themes_and_devices

I understand your line of reasoning but children (particularly boys) will play war/cowboys&indians/pirates etc. and fashion sticks to use as guns, knives, and swords. Adults can discourage this but it really is contrary to their nature. Exposure to the real thing is beneficial when done correctly. But, exposure does not need to include fully automatic weapons in order to teach proper respect to firearms.

 

[Gokul43201]

Why should a 8 year old get hands on any weapon regardless of an adult presence?

Why not? I was about that age when I first shot a gun.

8-year olds are rarely allowed to perform surgery in the local hospital either. Not everyone is Integral or Doogie Howser.

You've got to wait till you're 18 to smoke a cigarette, till 21 to drink a beer ... but if you want to go about shooting assault weapons, a toddler in diapers is qualified.

 

[BobG]

8-year olds are rarely allowed to perform surgery in the local hospital either. Not everyone is Integral or Doogie Howser.

You've got to wait till you're 18 to smoke a cigarette, till 21 to drink a beer ... but if you want to go about shooting assault weapons, a toddler in diapers is qualified.

Smoking cigarettes and drinking beer aren't protected by the Constitution.

A better parallel would probably be voting. That's a guaranteed right, as well.

Actually, I don't have a problem with kids around 10 or 11 or maybe a couple years older gaining familiarity with weapons in either a structured environment like Boy Scouts or under the supervision of adults. The big problem in this instance was the decision making of the adults.

 

[Astronuc]

I've never even seen a police officer with a gun. We have sticks

I've had undercover police officers pull guns on me and point them at my head and chest. Interesting experience it was.

 

[Astronuc]

8-year olds are rarely allowed to perform surgery in the local hospital either. Not everyone is Integral or Doogie Howser.

You've got to wait till you're 18 to smoke a cigarette, till 21 to drink a beer ... but if you want to go about shooting assault weapons, a toddler in diapers is qualified.

I was about 13 when I first smoked a cigarette, and about 14 when I had my first substantial drink - Whisky, Rum, Vodka, . . . .

In my neighborhood, there was a girl whose parents had a well stocked liquor cabinet. Prior to that, I had sipped wine from my parents' glasses at holiday dinners. If one knew the right people, it was easy to buy alcohol.

Another friend had a mother who smoked, and he used to go to the local store to buy cigarettes for her - and himself. It was easy to buy cigarettes.

 

[phyzmatix]

I've had undercover police officers pull guns on me and point them at my head and chest. Interesting experience it was.

Dare I ask why?

EDIT: I removed the next bit obviously AFTER Astronuc already quoted

Think (1) I'd prob **** myself and (2) once it's been established that I am no longer in any danger, I'd be PISSED!

 

[Astronuc]

Dare I ask why? Think (1) I'd prob **** myself and (2) once it's been established that I am no longer in any danger, I'd be PISSED!

I was with a friend who was doing a favor for another of his friends. The package contained an illicit substance, and the police were waiting to bust whoever showed up to claim the package. I didn't have any ID on me, because I wasn't driving, so they thought I was the one receiving the package. They police were just doing their job.

 

[phyzmatix]

I was with a friend who was doing a favor for another of his friends. The package contained an illicit substance, and the police were waiting to bust whoever showed up to claim the package. I didn't have any ID on me, because I wasn't driving, so they thought I was the one receiving the package. They police were just doing their job.

I must admit that I also had friends like these

Must still have been a nerve-wrecking experience.

 

[Astronuc]

I must admit that I also had friends like these

Must still have been a nerve-wrecking experience.

No, not really. It was just an interesting experience.

 

[Coheda]

</didn'treadthethread>

What an idiot. This guy deserves life in prision for being a moron. Giving his EIGHT YEAR OLD SON an AUTOMATIC weapon?

What?!

That's horribly irresponbile and retarded. The kid was EIGHT. He couldn't have been shooting anything larger than a .22 for more than a year. Hell, just the other day I saw some 19 year old idiot shoot himself in the hand because he couldn't control his handgun when it fired in automatic, much less an EIGHT year old. What a dumbass.

 

[Evo]

I've had undercover police officers pull guns on me and point them at my head and chest. Interesting experience it was.

I had a police officer pull a gun on me while I was taking a shower. Beat that! :tongue2:

 

[vanesch]

I had a police officer pull a gun on me while I was taking a shower. Beat that! :tongue2:

Mmm. Lots of things come to mind here What kind of gun ? :tongue:

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I had a police officer pull a gun on me while I was taking a shower. Beat that! :tongue2:

I can't. I was stopped for a headlight violation once and when I opened the glove compartment to get the paperwork, there was a butterknife there. Even though I didn't touch the knife, the officer told me that if she had a partner with her, she would have pulled her gun on me on account of the knife. I don't know why she needed a partner to do that, but anyway she didn't do it. When I got home I cleaned out the glove compartment and the door wells. There was a steak knife there. It was three grades duller than the butter knife, but I think she would have plugged me if she had seen it and asked questions later. I mean if she had a partner with her.

 

[turbo]

I had a police officer pull a gun on me while I was taking a shower. Beat that! :tongue2:

I was on the other end of that exchange once. My wife was in rough shape after a serious car accident, and (luckily) I was home and not working that early-morning shift. She woke me, saying that she heard someone downstairs, and I padded down there very quietly, swung around the dividing wall between the stairway and the kitchen, and aimed for a head-shot before I hollered at the intruder. It turned out to be her sister's son. He said that he had car trouble and let himself into use the phone (we didn't lock doors much then). I told him to get out, and strangely, he had no problem driving away, chirping his tires when he hit the pavement. I was naked, though I was nicely accessorized with a Colt Python loaded with .357 hollow-points. Years later, he entered my wife's cousin's place while she and her husband were asleep, and stole some clothing, watches, and other stuff. Maybe I should have dropped the creep and then hollered to get his attention.

 

[edward]

According to my local paper the eight year old was shooting a 9mm Micro Uzi. That is way too much weapon for an eight year old.

I started shooting a 22 when I was about that age but my dad was always behind me with his arms around me supporting the rifle.

Micro Uzi video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM21B3LFDFI&feature=related

 

[Ivan Seeking]

According to my local paper the eight year old was shooting a 9mm Micro Uzi. That is way too much weapon for an eight year old.

I started shooting a 22 when I was about that age but my dad was always behind me with his arms around me supporting the rifle.

This was my thought. I too was shooting guns by the time I could ride a bicycle, but dad and friends always took into account the possibility of a problem. This is an obvious requirement of the situation - a child with a powerful weapon, or any weapon for that matter. The events in the linked story are a clear indication that the adults involved were complete idiots.

I was shooting a Savage 400, and 12 gauge with high-base magnums, by the time I was ten, and I never came close to having an accident. At age 12 I took the NRA gun course, which was rigorous for a person my age, and almost entirely safety oriented. I don't know the status of this, but back then it was required in order to get a hunting license in Ca. It should be required in all States for all ages.

 

[Moonbear]

According to my local paper the eight year old was shooting a 9mm Micro Uzi. That is way too much weapon for an eight year old.

I started shooting a 22 when I was about that age but my dad was always behind me with his arms around me supporting the rifle.

That's the part that seems completely irresponsible and that I don't understand. First, I really don't know why one would hand an Uzi to an 8-year old. A BB gun, maybe, but an Uzi? And, just because he's shot firearms before doesn't mean he knew what he was doing or was in control. The instructor should NEVER have just handed a gun to a kid and let him go at it! And the dad just fiddling for a camera rather than stepping into supervise either! If you're going to let a kid fire a gun of any kind, stand right behind him and have your arms ready to steady him or the gun if need be. Heck, if I were to fire a gun for the first time and I had no idea what sort of kick to expect, I'd want someone "spotting" me from behind just in case.

The worst part, I read in the local paper here that the kid's father is chief of the emergency department at a hospital! And one of the quotes sounded really blase about any sense of responsibility...sort of a "I don't know what happened, it was just such a freak accident" type of statement. Huh? How does someone who works in an ER not know what sort of damage gun shot wounds can inflict and how dangerous they can be in the hands of an inexperienced person, especially an inexperienced person so young and small they have little chance to control it?

 

[Moonbear]

I too was shooting guns by the time I could ride a bicycle...

Think about it, you wouldn't even let a kid ride a bicycle the first time without being there to catch it and stop it from falling if they lose their balance, and most likely, the worse that happens if they fall off their bicycle is they break an arm. Why would you hand them something that can be deadly and not stand there ready to grab them if something goes wrong, or even hold their arms to help steady them the first time?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Mmm. Lots of things come to mind here What kind of gun ? :tongue:

An oozy?

 

[scorpa]

This is such a stupid senseless thing. Why one Earth would anyone let an 8 year old shoot and Uzi? I'm from a farm and shot my first gun (a .22) around the time i suppose I was 11 or 12 or so, I can't really remember. And I had an entire course in school in grade 9 about gun safety and proper shooting. No one would have ever let me shoot an uzi. Good lord. What stupid parents. It would have been like my father getting me a CBR 1000 as a first motorcycle when I was 10 instead of the little XR I had...STUPID!.

 

[Astronuc]

. . . . while I was taking a shower. Beat that! :tongue2:

:tongue2: Indeed!

Besides, that doesn't count. I wasn't there to witness. :tongue2:

 

[Moonbear]

An oozy?

Grooooooooaaaaannnnn! :uhh:

 

[Kurdt]

My pun sense is tingling. I guess it would be wise to suppress it though.

 

[lisab]

I had a police officer pull a gun on me while I was taking a shower. Beat that! :tongue2:

OK, since you challenged...I was shot by a drunk cop when I was 12. No, I'm not kidding. (Just a shotgun, though.)

 

[Evo]

OK, since you challenged...I was shot by a drunk cop when I was 12. No, I'm not kidding. (Just a shotgun, though.)

"just a shotgun" :uhh:

Ok, you get first place.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

So... has anyone been shot by a drunk cop in the shower? That seems like the logical next step.

⚛​

 

[tribdog]

Grooooooooaaaaannnnn! :uhh:

thank you. I didn't want to be associated with that pun in any way.

Everyone in my school took the NRA gun safety class in 6th or 7th grade. I don't own any guns now, but I used to when I was younger. Everyone in my town had guns and hunted. If there is a chance that a kid is going to come across a gun I think they should know something about gun safety.

 

[binzing]

Just got here.

Only question I have is WHY was it loaded? WTF...

 

[russ_watters]

Does it really matter? I doubt it is the cub scouts teaching people to be responsible with firearms that turns potential murderers into nice citizens. I'd be willing to bet that the background circumstances that turn the majority of people into murderers would be such that they'd never go there in the first place. In which case that is not the success of the cub scouts, but rather the failure of society.

I see no functional difference there, whether the cub scouts is the cause or the effect (notice: I did not specify).

Clarification, though: it is not a failure of society, it is a failure of parenting. It isn't society's job to raise that guy's kid.

 

[edward]

Dad doesn't seem to be very upset about it.

 

[rootX]

This complete aversion to guns people have today is a relatively new thing and indicates more about the people who hold the opinion: they are overly sheltered and naive about guns.

Yes, it is new.
But sounds like either you are living in really old times or in a really dangerous area. How many times you actually had to use the gun?

And yes, it is society's job to make sure that children are raised properly.

 

[Moonbear]

Dad doesn't seem to be very upset about it.

It's really weird, it's like he just couldn't care less that his kid is dead. That was what struck me about one of the quotes from him in the local paper. Even though it was just a written quote, it was worded in such a way that it just seemed like he could have been talking about a complete stranger's kid. The school principal in that news clip seemed to have more emotion than the father. The kid died doing something the father stupidly gave him permission to do and stood by watching as it happened, yet the father seems to have no remorse about it at all. I would expect him to be inconsolably bawling his eyes out and wracked with guilt about letting the kid do something so stupid.

 

[phyzmatix]

I had a police officer pull a gun on me while I was taking a shower. Beat that! :tongue2:

You guys are weird...

:tongue:

 

[moose]

I am sorry this is udder nonsense. A gun is NOT a toy, just because you teach a child to handle a gun does not mean it is a toy. Quite the opposite, children taught to safely handle and respect fire arms are not going treat them like toys. It is kids who are NOT taught proper firearms safety that get into trouble when they happen to get their hands on a weapon.

A persons approach to problem solving in completely independent of their familiarity or in familiarity with firearms.

The simple fact is, any house with a firearms and children, the children should be taught firearms safety and respect.

Yup.
I was taught how to handle firearms when I was around 10, which is when my dad bought his first firearm.

Just got here.

Only question I have is WHY was it loaded? WTF...

Read the article. They were at the range.