The proper article to use in the sentence A/An NaI detector

[yxgao]

The proper article to use in the sentence "A/An NaI detector"

I'm not sure if this is the best forum to put this in, but I'm curious, what is the proper article to use in a sentence such as
"A/An NaI detector"?

The source I found this from uses "An," probably because "NaI" is read letter by letter so that the "an" appropriate procedes a vowel sound. However, the first letter in NaI is not spelled with an vowel, so I'm confused.



grn. 14.

 

[tribdog]

N, pronounce "Ehn" or something like that. It does start with a vowel sound

 

[Evo]

It "sounds" correct to use "an", but I believe "a" is actually correct. I deal with a lot of acronyms in my job and in textbooks "a" is used with acronyms that start with a consonant that "sounds" like a vowel.

Let me see if I can verfiy which is correct.

 

[tribdog]

pronounce it Sodium and avoid the confusion
I don't know what an NaI detector is, I'm just guessing at Sodium
It has to be "an" when the NaI is spoken as N A I, written I don't know, but spoken has to be Right?

 

[tribdog]

I also keep hearing people on the History channel saying. "An historic occasion." That sounds wrong to me. Actually, according to what I learned in school it is wrong, but maybe something changed since then like Kingdoms I was taught Plantae and Animalia and that was all there was. what is it up to now? 5 Or I was taught wrong, like black holes, I was taught that if you wanted to see the end of the universe you could jump into a black hole and would see time speed up for the rest of the Universe as you neared the event horizon. I think this was simply a case of the teacher trying to go outside the textbook and teach something she wasn't qualified for.

 

[tribdog]

to quote Sting "sending out AN SOS"

 

[Evo]

Sting is correct!

Using articles with abbreviations and acronyms:
One of the most often asked questions about grammar has to do with the choice of articles — a, an, the — to precede an abbreviation or acronym. Do we say an FBI agent or a FBI agent? Although "F" is obviously a consonant and we would precede any word that begins with "F" with "a," we precede FBI with "an" because the first sound we make when we say FBI is not an "f-sound," it is an "eff-sound." Thus we say we're going to a PTO meeting where an NCO will address us. We say we saw a UFO because, although the abbreviation begins with a 'U," we pronounce the "U" as if it were spelled "yoo." Whether we say an URL or a URL depends on whether we pronounce it as "earl" or as "u*r*l."

http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/abbreviations.htm

 

[tribdog]

Sting was correct? Not tribdog. Noooo. He's a idiot, an jerk, a a-hole, an dummy, an bonehead.

 

[Astronuc]

Either way is satisfactory - suit yourself.

From a manufacturer of NaI detectors (Canberra):

"The NAID is a NaI detector specially designed for use in the measurement of uranium enrichment . . . " -
source: http://www.canberra.com/products/514.asp

But from the Health Physics Society:

"How is the minimum detection efficiency of an NaI detector used to detect gamma energies in the low range 60 keV to 300 keV calculated?"
source: http://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q533.html

NaI = Sodium Iodide (often doped with thallium (Tl)). Interacts with radiation in which a pulse of visible light is produced (NaI is a scintillation crystal). Usually, the light, whose intensity is proportional to the energy of the radiation, is collected by a photomultiplier tube. The resulting electronic pulse which is processed in a multichannel analyzer. This is the basis of gamma-ray spectroscopy. Probably more than anyone wanted to know.

 

[tribdog]

woohoo, batting an thousand today

 

[Evo]

Sting was correct? Not tribdog. Noooo. He's a idiot, an jerk, a a-hole, an dummy, an bonehead.

Tribdog is correct!

(as if it wasn't already obvious)

 

[Moonbear]

I would go with what Astronuc said. If you are reading it as Ehn Ay Aye, then put "an" in front. If you read it as "Sodium iodide," then stick "a" in front. Actually, I'm pretty sure I'd read it as sodium iodide, not as Ehn Ay Aye. The latter of those sounds strange to me when I see a chemical symbol.

 

[Les Sleeth]

Let me see if I can verfiy which is correct.

See if you can answer these issues (which I can't decide about for certain):

My friends and I play pinochle, and when one team gets the bid and calls some suit trump, we can't decide if it is proper to say, for instance, spades are trump, or spades is trump. The confusion seems to be caused by the fact that spades is a single suit, but it is expressed in a plural form.

How about, is it others' or other's point of view? I usually write others'.

 

[Moonbear]

See if you can answer these issues (which I can't decide about for certain):

My friends and I play pinochle, and when one team gets the bid and calls some suit trump, we can't decide if it is proper to say, for instance, spades are trump, or spades is trump. The confusion seems to be caused by the fact that spades is a single suit, but it is expressed in a plural form.

How about, is it others' or other's point of view? I usually write others'.

Hmm...I never thought about the suits being plural. I just thought about it as the 13 cards that have spades on them, so spades are plural. It almost sounds like we've shortened a longer phrase there, doesn't it? For example, we'll talk about "the 10 of spades," but that really makes little grammatical sense. Perhaps it originated from something like the number 10 of the cards containing spades. If the question bugs you too much while playing cards, just have another beer.

Other's vs others' is easier. It depends on whether you are talking about one other's view or many others' views. If there are many, then it will be points of view, unless they are all sharing one brain (it might be more challenging if you're referring to Borg, for example).

 

[hypnagogue]

God, this brings back bad memories of obsessive high school English teachers.

My friends and I play pinochle, and when one team gets the bid and calls some suit trump, we can't decide if it is proper to say, for instance, spades are trump, or spades is trump. The confusion seems to be caused by the fact that spades is a single suit, but it is expressed in a plural form.

My advice would be to circumvent the problem and say "The suit of spades is trump." If that's too long, just say "strump."

How about, is it others' or other's point of view? I usually write others'.

That would definitely be others'. Other's would refer to the point of view of that one other guy over there.

 

[Les Sleeth]

If the question bugs you too much while playing cards, just have another beer.

Lol. Hey, that's what started the problem to begin with. However, your answer didn't help much, I am more confused than ever!

P.S.

I noticed you didn't attempt the other's/others' question.

 

[tribdog]

going for 3 in a row
the suit of spades is singular in cards
the gravedigger's spades are plural

other's point of view

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Sting is correct!

Using articles with abbreviations and acronyms:
One of the most often asked questions about grammar has to do with the choice of articles — a, an, the — to precede an abbreviation or acronym. Do we say an FBI agent or a FBI agent? Although "F" is obviously a consonant and we would precede any word that begins with "F" with "a," we precede FBI with "an" because the first sound we make when we say FBI is not an "f-sound," it is an "eff-sound." Thus we say we're going to a PTO meeting where an NCO will address us. We say we saw a UFO because, although the abbreviation begins with a 'U," we pronounce the "U" as if it were spelled "yoo." Whether we say an URL or a URL depends on whether we pronounce it as "earl" or as "u*r*l."

http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/abbreviations.htm

:rofl: All of these years I thought I had this right. I thought we would say a FBI agent since F is for Federal - an implied [hard] F sound. I have no idea how I came up with that one! :grumpy:

So the NaI detector usage depends on if we say Na [enn a], or sodium.

I finally [mostly] got who and whom straight from an old episode of the Twilight Zone: "Whom - objective case". It's funny that for all of the English that we're taught, this is what I remember.

 

[yxgao]

I also keep hearing people on the History channel saying. "An historic occasion." That sounds wrong to me.

That definitely sounds wrong and is wrong according to the website Evo linked.

See if you can answer these issues (which I can't decide about for certain):

My friends and I play pinochle, and when one team gets the bid and calls some suit trump, we can't decide if it is proper to say, for instance, spades are trump, or spades is trump. The confusion seems to be caused by the fact that spades is a single suit, but it is expressed in a plural form.

How about, is it others' or other's point of view? I usually write others'.

According to Google, "spades are trump" is more frequently used than "spades is trump," but it really doesn't matter how you say it. Just enjoy the card game :rofl:

 

[Moonbear]

:rofl: All of these years I thought I had this right. I thought we would say a FBI agent since F is for Federal - an implied [hard] F sound. I have no idea how I came up with that one! :grumpy:

Well, if you want to be proper and picky, or properly picky even, you would NEVER say Eff Bee Aye, you would say Federal Bureau of Investigation any place the acronym was used. Acronyms are confusing.

 

[hypnagogue]

That definitely sounds wrong and is wrong according to the website Evo linked.

It's correct if you pronounce it as "istoric," silent H. If you say "an istoric event," you sound dignified. But if you say "istory," you just sound like a chimney sweep. Go figure. :tongue:

 

[Les Sleeth]

the suit of spades is singular in cards

Is that certainty or an educated guess? (I think you are right tho)

other's point of view

Same question. Can you explain why if you know this for certain? I write it others' because it starts out as others. You'd never say other . . . oops, I just realized the answer .

If one person is involved, then it is "the other's point of view." If it is two or more people involved, then it is "the others' point of view."

 

[tribdog]

step in time, step in time, da dadadada da dadapretty little da da something, step in time."~Dick Van Dyke as Bert the Chimney Sweep in Mary Poppins

 

[tribdog]

Is that certainty or an educated guess? (I think you are right tho)




Same question. Can you explain why if you know this for certain? I write it others' because it starts out as others. You'd never say other . . . oops, I just realized the answer .

If one person is involved, then it is "the other's point of view." If it is two or more people involved, then it is "the others' point of view."

lol, how long you been here? I don't make EDUCATED guesses.
let me guess, otherses?

 

[Les Sleeth]

According to Google, "spades are trump" is more frequently used than "spades is trump," but it really doesn't matter how you say it. Just enjoy the card game :rofl:

God, isn't Google awesome? I can even type in my own name and find stuff (ignore that balony about felony theft, etc., that's another guy with the same name).

Of course you know, "most frequently used" doesn't answer what is the correct usage.

 

[Les Sleeth]

lol, how long you been here? I don't make EDUCATED guesses.

...... :rofl:

 

[Evo]

Rats, I lost my connection and missed all the fun. :grumpy:

BTW, hypnagogue is correct on all.

 

[Evo]

God, isn't Google awesome? I can even type in my own name and find stuff (ignore that balony about felony theft, etc., that's another guy with the same name).

When I type my (real) first name in a bunch of soft core p0rn sites come up. At least she's good looking.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

may and might, anyone?

 

[Gokul43201]

'Spades' is clearly an elliptic usage of 'the suit of spades', and so, is a singular noun, unless you say 'the spades', in which case it would be a plural noun.

1. Spades is trump.
2. The spades are trump.

'Point of view' could be be associated with a singular noun or a plural; the latter, if context shows that 'the others' collectively share one point of view. However, I can't think of an example where 'other's point of view' is not an elliptic form of 'other person's point of view'.

1. Is this your idea of things ?
No, it is some other's point of view. ('person' in ellipsis)

2. The others' point of view is just the opposite of mine.

If we talk of 'points of view', then it would nearly always belong to the 'others' except in the case where the elliptic usage is applied to one person, at different times.

1. The others' points of view are all ridiculous.

2. (Context : among two students...) While the first student's opinion has remained fairly constant over the course of his schooling, the other's points of view have been all over the board. ('student' in ellipsis)

 

[Evo]

may and might, anyone?

They can both be used, but saying "it may happen" is a stronger possibility than saying "it might happen".

I've always loved this joke about may and might:

Sherlock Holmes and Dr Watson go camping and pitch their tent under the stars. In the middle of the night, Holmes wakes his companion up and says: "Watson, look up at the stars and tell me what you deduce." Watson says: "I see millions of stars and maybe quite a few planets among them. It may be true that a few of the planets are quite like Earth and there might be life on them." Holmes replies: "Watson, you bloody fool! Somebody has stolen our tent!"

 

[Ivan Seeking]

"Watson, you bloody fool! Somebody has stolen our tent!"

:rofl: I can't believe that I didn't see it coming.

 

[Les Sleeth]

'Spades' is clearly an elliptic usage of 'the suit of spades', and so, is a singular noun, unless you say 'the spades', in which case it would be a plural noun.

1. Spades is trump.
2. The spades are trump.

'Point of view' could be be associated with a singular noun or a plural; the latter, if context shows that 'the others' collectively share one point of view. However, I can't think of an example where 'other's point of view' is not an elliptic form of 'other person's point of view'.

1. Is this your idea of things ?
No, it is some other's point of view. ('person' in ellipsis)

2. The others' point of view is just the opposite of mine.

If we talk of 'points of view', then it would nearly always belong to the 'others' except in the case where the elliptic usage is applied to one person, at different times.

1. The others' points of view are all ridiculous.

2. (Context : among two students...) While the first student's opinion has remained fairly constant over the course of his schooling, the other's points of view have been all over the board. ('student' in ellipsis)

Awesome (especially since you agree with what I thought). No, great examples and a clear explanation. Next time my friends argue with me I'll have this link ready to give them.

 

[Evo]

I love this BBC definition of the slang term "bloody".

*** Bloody is a medium-strong swear word, used to give emotional emphasis to something that you are saying. It should not be used in polite situations. For polite conversation, substitute: You stupid idiot!

Oh yeah, "you stupid idiot" is much more polite! :rofl: (Those British are weird.)

 

[Les Sleeth]

(Those British are weird.)

I know, what's up with cricket? :tongue2: