Laws you would like enacted, repealed or changed

[russ_watters]

It isn't any different. I'm not sure if you are implying an argument there, but I'll make mine: Overweight people should not be a protected class and discrimination should be allowed where appropriate. Insurance companies discriminate on all sorts of factors, from sex to various things about health - and weight affects health. It would not be unreasonable for a business to avoid hiring obese people because of the projected cost of insuring them.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Then this applies to the other examples as well.

The fundamental question is: Do employers have a right to hire based on health risk analysis?

Does this apply to genetic testing as well? And what about problems like obesity, diabetes, or addiction, that are thought to be genetically linked?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Consider also that bias based on weight ensures race and sex discrimination.

African-American, American Indian and Hispanic-American women have the highest risk of becoming overweight, according to the Centers for Disease Control. Only one minority group, Asian Americans, has a lower rate of obesity than the general population.

http://journalism.nyu.edu/pubzone/race_class/othergirlsstuff.html

 

[russ_watters]

What does whether or not a health problem is genetically linked have to do with an employer's health care costs?

 

[grant9076]

Actually, Russ has a valid point. In addition, a morbidly obese firefighter would have a very difficult time rescuing a victim from the 6th floor of a building. He/she would probably pose a risk to the victim, himself/herself, and to other firefighters.

Consider also that bias based on weight ensures race and sex discrimination.


http://journalism.nyu.edu/pubzone/race_class/othergirlsstuff.html

The real causes of obesity are due to behavioral rather than racial or gender issues because the only way to become obese is to intake an excess of empty calories. Any relation to ethnic groups is due to cultural differences which may affect behavior patterns.

 

[Art]

It's probably about time Britain repealed the Statute of Henry VIII requiring archery practice for all citizens for 1 hour a day which still sits on the statute books.

Oh and I think health care insurance costs should be averaged across the customer base with perhaps some modifications based on age at first entry to the plan to ensure the plan is not ripped off. If the charge is fully personalised then it's hardly insurance any more it's simply treatment fees in advance.

 

[denverdoc]

Actually, Russ has a valid point. In addition, a morbidly obese firefighter would have a very difficult time rescuing a victim from the 6th floor of a building. He/she would probably pose a risk to the victim, himself/herself, and to other firefighters.



The real causes of obesity are due to behavioral rather than racial or gender issues because the only way to become obese is to intake an excess of empty calories. Any relation to ethnic groups is due to cultural differences which may affect behavior patterns.

This I am unsure of. Granted, one has to consume more than one burns to add mass, but its not quite so simple. Women for very good reasons are better able to drop their BMR during times of famine, apart from any labor quality differences...which explains why dieting is generally less successful once overweight when compared to men. A lot of lousy eating habits/food selection is more of a class/educational issue than ethnic. But high quality protein is also more expensive than carbs, esp when sourced from animals.

Finally it seems the schools themselves are waking up and getting some of the junk out of the cafaterias. Now if they could get the munchkins to exercise.

 

[grant9076]

Empty calories are calories for which the metabolism has no use. I am aware that the resting metabolic rate slows down due to loss of lean mass during a starvation state and that different individuals have different resting metabolic rates (at least we are in agreement on that). However, unless the person dies, his/her resting metabolic rate can never be zero. As we are both aware, the human body has to obey the second law of thermodynamics like any other physical entity and can never be a perpetual motion machine.

As an analogy, if a car goes on a trip with half tank of gasoline and returns with a full tank: Did the laws of physics change or did someone add more gasoline than it burned off?

A lot of lousy eating habits/food selection is more of a class/educational issue than ethnic.

Yes I agree that it has little or nothing to do with race/ethnicity.

But high quality protein is also more expensive than carbs, esp when sourced from animals.

Actually, inspite of what is promoted in the latest fad diets, the most dense sources of empty calories (gram for gram) are grease and alcohol but that is another forum topic. However, if the person prepares his/her own food, then high quality nutrition is still cheaper than eating out at fast food restaurants.

 

[BIah]

A child bearing license.

What? You need a license to be on the road, but not one to take care of a kid?

Is a car more important than a kid?

 

[BIah]

On a related note, some companies are now refusing to hire smokers. How is this any different than refusing to hire fat people, or people who eat chocolate, ride motorcycles, skydive, watch too much TV, or who don't exercise enough?

Being fat, eating chocolate, riding motorcycles, skydiving, watching too much tv, and not exercising enough don't cause smoke to disturb everyone around them.

Plus the smell, irritability commonly generated if one is refused a "smoke" for a working day, constant breaks required if one is to smoke far away and then completely wash out the horrid smell, and customer relations with tar stains and the breath.

It sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Can you prove that these are credible issues? Are smokers allowed extra breaks by law? Have you heard of handi-wipes or toothpaste? Coffee drinkers get stained teeth, should they be disallowed jobs as well? In fact, perhaps employers could require a whiteness test for teeth before hiring someone, if this is a concern. Would good smelling smokers with white teeth be okay?

Oh yes, they could just ban smoking in the workplace, but perhaps that would be too simple... it takes away all of the power.

As for attitude, is it okay to not hire women who get particularly moody once a month..or because they might?

And what of the liability to the employer who hires a woman who might get pregnant. Why should an employer be subject to this risk?

 

[denverdoc]

Empty calories are calories for which the metabolism has no use. I am aware that the resting metabolic rate slows down due to loss of lean mass during a starvation state and that different individuals have different resting metabolic rates (at least we are in agreement on that). However, unless the person dies, his/her resting metabolic rate can never be zero. As we are both aware, the human body has to obey the second law of thermodynamics like any other physical entity and can never be a perpetual motion machine.

As an analogy, if a car goes on a trip with half tank of gasoline and returns with a full tank: Did the laws of physics change or did someone add more gasoline than it burned off?

.

No one is talking about overhauling thermodynamics; In fact, I used to make assertions like that to my patients frequently. Did me and the patient a fat lot of good. Besides which, you seem to believe that behavior is somehow outside the domain of genetics. The older and wiser I get, the more I believe the opposite. Compulsive behaviors of all sorts seem to be deeply rooted biologically--whether gambling, eating, abusing substances, etc. In many ways compulsive overeating is a lot tougher to treat than compulsive sexual behavior, etc, as total abstinence is not an option.

 

[grant9076]

No one is talking about overhauling thermodynamics; In fact, I used to make assertions like that to my patients frequently. Did me and the patient a fat lot of good. Besides which, you seem to believe that behavior is somehow outside the domain of genetics. The older and wiser I get, the more I believe the opposite. Compulsive behaviors of all sorts seem to be deeply rooted biologically--whether gambling, eating, abusing substances, etc. In many ways compulsive overeating is a lot tougher to treat than compulsive sexual behavior, etc, as total abstinence is not an option.

I agree with that. I was originally disagreeing with the assertion/insinuation by another poster that obesity was a racial or ethnic issue.

 

[denverdoc]

I agree with that. I was originally disagreeing with the assertion/insinuation by another poster that obesity was a racial or ethnic issue.

Nah, more of a class issue, tho certain populations seem predisposed to obesity. No one complains that the smothered in sour cream and guacomole El Grande refried bean/burrito leaves em hungry 2 hours later. In the context of poverty, the completeness of the protein makes sense, but carrying the same habits to a situation where one can afford more and the demanding labor of farming/what have you is absent, its easy to gain weight. I don't see this as a hispanic issue exclusively. I once sat outside a walmart in virginia and estimated the number of obese to highly obese at about 70 % of the population. When I go to Whole Foods in Boulder (known fondly as whole paycheck) the number drops to 1/2 that maybe. Course there seems like half the population is a triathelete.

 

[verty]

I was originally disagreeing with the assertion/insinuation by another poster that obesity was a racial or ethnic issue.

I think this whole area is really too vague to make a solid point about whether something is, for instance, a racial issue or not. It seems like splitting hairs to say that a correlation is explanable due to cultural differences and is therefore not a racial issue. If culture and race is similarly divided, I then think you can call it a racial issue, more or less.

If, for instance, African Americans for whatever reason tend to eat less nutritiously (which I don't claim), that seems to me like a racial issue. It is an issue experience by a preponderance of members of that race group. If African Americans tend to be less educated on account of a severly biased environment, education seems like a racial issue. It is an issue experienced by those people.

But when people read into it that racial/ethnic issues are fixed and can't be changed then I totally disagree because any immutable effects of race are sure to be almost negligible, like that perhaps whites are more easily sunburned or whatever. All cultural bias must be removed before anyone can speak of immutable 'issues'.

Whatever you have left is bound to be negligible compared to the deviation in any group (I would think).

 

[denverdoc]

Well blacks can sunburn but its a whole lot harder than your freckled redhead from Ireland. I think race is an interesting issue, not from who is better, etc, but when distinct races emerged and whatever differences beyond physical that might exist. It had to have been very recently. Look I'm not Shockly and have no interest in bell curves, but it seems obvious that egalitarian hopes notwithstanding, there are likely distinct differences just as there are across gender, in how we see and react to the world.

 

[USA_ENGLISH]

Why tax gasoline? Isn't high as is, we have a recession, most can't afford it

the first things that come to mind:
-lower the drinking age to 18.

-legalize marijuana.

-tax gasoline. ?

-end both of the wars in afghanistan and iraq.

-begin wide-spread reform to stop global warming, including heavy taxes on CO2 emissions by factories.

-tax goods imported from countries with little/no worker rights in such a way that it would be cheaper to produce them in the us or at least countries that respect their workers.

-make lobbying by corporations equivalent to treason. Congress should answer only to the people they are elected to represent, not big-business.

-criminalize discrimination based on sexual orientation.

-dispose of 50% or more of the united state's atomic-weapon arsenal.

-pass a law requiring the president to renew any authorization for military action every two years. Any president that fails to do so, even if they are off by as little as a day, will be immediately impeached, removed from office, and charged with treason.

-cap military funding in half, and appropriate half of that extra money to education.

-require the president to give weekly, televised updates to the people he/she serves.

-repeal the no child left behind act. Are you a teacher?

-declassify any and all information in the government that isn't an immediate security risk.

-end the "war on drugs" in general. It's a waste of money that could be spent on giving children an education. How don't we wish.

-provide funding to achieve a >75% level of alternative-energy usage in the us by 2020 (or a reasonable date).

let me add one more thing on a new post

 

[IMP]

Any law that punishes anyone for a "crime" without there being a victim. If there is no victim, there is no crime committed.
If you didn't harm someone, steal property, damage property, kill someone, no crime was committed.
We should clearly differentiate an unlawful act with a criminal act.

 

[Pattonias]

Don't forget that you may be arguing with people who were making statements in regards to the state of politics nearly three years ago. And don't criticize someone who doesn't speak the English language if you are not going to bother to write clearly in English yourself.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

And don't criticize someone who doesn't speak the English language if you are not going to bother to write clearly in English yourself.

Not even if you do. Learn to love freedom more than dialect.

 

[ibnsos]

It should be a fedral offense to necro-post!

 

[BobG]

Give on the spot fines for downright stupidity It'd learn people up pretty quick. ... or you got drunk and tried to climb over a fence to get home quicker; the on the spot stupidity warden could give you a ticket, and 3 points on your common sense license. When you had accumulated enough points you could have your license revoked and probationary measures imposed, such as not being allowed out after 10 at night, or to consume alcohol etc I think it might work:tongue:

Unfortunately I think I'd probably be locked up for life by now for being a serial idiot

This is just plain wrong! As if hanging from a fence by the skin between your fingers isn't punishment in itself. And stretching as high as you can on the tips of your toes and just ... not ... quite ... getting high enough to lift yourself off the fence is just pathetic poignancy. Why couldn't I truly be 5'10" instead of 5 foot, 9 and 3/4 inches. I still have two nice scars from that little episode.

Dishing out a fine on top of a truly traumatic incident is just adding unnecessary insult to injury.

It should be a fedral offense to necro-post!

It should also be a federal offense to embezzle e's.

 

[Jasongreat]

Law #1- No person may base their happiness or sadness on the actions of others.
Law #2- There is no crime unless someone/something is physically hurt or damaged.
Law #3- The US constitution has to be followed word for word, not what the government wants it to say, since it is the constitution that tells the national government what they can do not vice versa. (They already take an oath, if they violate it it is treason.)
Law #4- Drivers will insure themselves, if they so choose, not everyone else.
Law #5- If a consitutional governmental program causes side effects you must end the program not take away more peoples rights to "fix" it. You can always try restructure the program but if you can't get rid of the side effect, its over.
Law #6- If a politician votes to help themselves over the objections of their constituents its treason.
Law #7- No more hipocracy, If a drug is bad a drug is bad, no more banning a natural substance only to sell and profit off of a synthetic version of it. If opiates are bad, opiates are bad(no more pain pills), if speed is bad(no more ritilan), if weed is bad(no more vallium and zanex). If we truly want to be a drug free society maybe remove every other commercial from TV(Drug ads if I needed to explain)).
Law #8- No one can make a law that pulls up the ladder from someone trying to follow, if you did it so can everyone else.
Law #9- A corporation can no longer be given personhood, only the people that work for it are people and have a say in government.
Law #10- Close to i it think was Jimmy's earlier post, for every law you add, you have to remove all related that you are replacing.
Law #11- A law can only be made to punish an action(if it meets the criteria of a crime above), not to prevent it, since according to law #2 above it is not a criminal.

There are already way too many laws "controlling" the people, we need some to control the government since they have forgotten that there already is one, its called the constitution.

 

[Argentum Vulpes]

I'd like to see the relaxation of some parts of HIPA. Mainly the part that as an EMT, nurse, or doctor sees an obvious abuse of Medicare, Medicaid, or any other government program, it is illegal for them to inform the correct government agency.

Lets make English the official language already. America is a melting pot of cultures. English is the common language that will allow everyone to blend and understand each other. Heck all of my relatives from the old world started speaking English when they came through Ellis island. It seamed up until the 80s if someone came to this country they learned English.

Protect and allow any emergency room, medical clinic, or doctor ask for payment upfront, to see proof of insurance, or American citizenship to provide any heath care over stabilizing care. It is done all over Europe, so enough said.

Make it so you have to of payed the federal government at least ten bucks in taxes to get a vote. And getting it all back in a refund doesn't count as having payed taxes.

Either relax some of the ridiculous standards leveled against nuclear power, or hold all other energy producers to the same standards.

Make all taxes the same for every power industry out there. No more of a wind power farm just needing to send a kW of power down the line and it has already made money for its investors.

Enforce all of the laws on the books for companies/employers in the US for hiring only people meant to be working in this country. Also throw the book (hell the entire library) at any company/employer who willingly breaks those laws.

 

[mugaliens]

Whatever law that allows a judge to get away with flagrantly violating the law...

Judges need to have authority to enforce the law. Sadly, judges have way to much authority to get away with violating the law without appropriate judicial review, unless one is rich enough to fund the very expensive appeals process...

 

[Galteeth]

All of them.

 

[Galteeth]

Law #1- No person may base their happiness or sadness on the actions of others.
Law #2- There is no crime unless someone/something is physically hurt or damaged.
Law #3- The US constitution has to be followed word for word, not what the government wants it to say, since it is the constitution that tells the national government what they can do not vice versa. (They already take an oath, if they violate it it is treason.)
Law #4- Drivers will insure themselves, if they so choose, not everyone else.
Law #5- If a consitutional governmental program causes side effects you must end the program not take away more peoples rights to "fix" it. You can always try restructure the program but if you can't get rid of the side effect, its over.
Law #6- If a politician votes to help themselves over the objections of their constituents its treason.
Law #7- No more hipocracy, If a drug is bad a drug is bad, no more banning a natural substance only to sell and profit off of a synthetic version of it. If opiates are bad, opiates are bad(no more pain pills), if speed is bad(no more ritilan), if weed is bad(no more vallium and zanex). If we truly want to be a drug free society maybe remove every other commercial from TV(Drug ads if I needed to explain)).
Law #8- No one can make a law that pulls up the ladder from someone trying to follow, if you did it so can everyone else.
Law #9- A corporation can no longer be given personhood, only the people that work for it are people and have a say in government.
Law #10- Close to i it think was Jimmy's earlier post, for every law you add, you have to remove all related that you are replacing.
Law #11- A law can only be made to punish an action(if it meets the criteria of a crime above), not to prevent it, since according to law #2 above it is not a criminal.

There are already way too many laws "controlling" the people, we need some to control the government since they have forgotten that there already is one, its called the constitution.

Those laws contradict each other.

 

[Char. Limit]

Hippocracy? Who advocated rule by horses?

Get rid of affirmative action, and begin divorce negotiations at split custody, not mother custody.

You know, sometimes fathers like to see their children more than once every two weeks.

Also, require paternity tests for every child in every divorce. If the husband isn't the father, no child support. In fact, if the husband isn't the father, give him the kids and send the wife (and her lover, if he's married) to jail for five years for perjury of the wedding vows.

 

[MotoH]

-Eliminate and destroy any form of threat to the United States and its protectorates.

-Increase the number of ICBM launch facilities and number of missiles on hand.

-Strengthen diplomatic ties with Russia

-Try anyone for treason who wishes to defame US soldiers and monuments.

-Legalize all forms of torture for terrorists.

-Remove the authorization needed before engaging an enemy in combat.

-Increase the production of all military assets (tanks, fighter jets, et cetera)

-Increase the Defense budget

-Increase the Space budget

-Increase the Education budget (repeal the no child left behind act)

-Completely remove welfare.

-make military service mandatory for 4 years after graduating from High School.

-Reduce tuition costs dramatically

there are many others but I am to tired to type them all out.

 

[edpell]

End the federal income tax.

 

[edpell]

In order to enforce the 10th amendment all states will have nuclear weapons and delivery systems under the control of the state government. All adults will have a military grade rifle in their homes and at the ready at all time and have sufficient yearly practice to use it well. Likewise each county will have a well practiced militia (all adults) well trained in war fighting and well equipped (with equipment in place with the county i.e. artillery, tanks, anti-tank, anti-aircraft, communications, food, etc...).

 

[Galteeth]

-Eliminate and destroy any form of threat to the United States and its protectorates.

-Increase the number of ICBM launch facilities and number of missiles on hand.

-Strengthen diplomatic ties with Russia

-Try anyone for treason who wishes to defame US soldiers and monuments.

-Legalize all forms of torture for terrorists.

-Remove the authorization needed before engaging an enemy in combat.

-Increase the production of all military assets (tanks, fighter jets, et cetera)

-Increase the Defense budget

-Increase the Space budget

-Increase the Education budget (repeal the no child left behind act)

-Completely remove welfare.

-make military service mandatory for 4 years after graduating from High School.

-Reduce tuition costs dramatically

there are many others but I am to tired to type them all out.

Ok, obviously we come from very different ideological viewpoints. I am curious, what do you feel would be the advantage of this hyper-militarization of the US?

 

[Char. Limit]

In order to enforce the 10th amendment all states will have nuclear weapons and delivery systems under the control of the state government. All adults will have a military grade rifle in their homes and at the ready at all time and have sufficient yearly practice to use it well. Likewise each county will have a well practiced militia (all adults) well trained in war fighting and well equipped (with equipment in place with the county i.e. artillery, tanks, anti-tank, anti-aircraft, communications, food, etc...).

I hope to God you're joking.

 

[edpell]

what do you feel

I think it is important to think in terms of an evolutionary point of view. For three billion years there has been someone or something that wants to eat us. The genome and its resultant thought patterns of the surviving descendants will have experience strong selection pressure.

One persons paranoia is another persons prudent planning. One persons prudent planning is another persons paranoia.

Only the unfolding of history will show in each particular case who was right and who was wrong.

But since American are not even able to reproduce (have on average 2.1 children per completed family) and must rely on immigration to constantly restore the population why do we care if America survives or not?

 

[edpell]

I hope to God you're joking.

How would you enforce the 10th amendment?