Sick freak kills first-graders

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In summary: I believe she was found dead in his home...They just released his name, apparently he killed his father in New Jersey, went to Newtown killed his mother who worked at the elementary school (which so far is the only connection they have found between him and the school). Then he went to the school...Which news are you listening to?I don't know how anyone could do this. It's just so senseless. I don't know how anyone could do this. It's just so senseless.
  • #36


The police don't want to release names at the moment, partly not to give out wrong information. Also, they are trying to track down evidence, e.g., bank records, or transactions, online accounts, and they don't want someone deleting evidence. This is what I gathered from state police statements.

My wife is a teaching assistant at a local elementary school, and the staff are distressed to say the least. Such an event hits very close to home.

I grieve for the parents who lost their children, siblings who lost a brother or sister, students who lost a friend, and families, teachers and staff affected by this.
 
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  • #37


IMP said:
PLEASE don't use this tragic event to further your opinion of guns laws. This is not the time or place.

Out of respect for your and another poster's sensitivities on just such a discussion, I will not express an opinion on gun laws. However, I do wish to ask, isn't now exactly the time such a discussion should take place?
 
  • #38


Like George Carlin said, it's just another example of extreme human behavior.

We are all capable of it potentially and understanding this one fact would change a lot about how we not see the world but ourselves.

I'd personally rather not do anything like this due the consequences of such actions, but some people do for various reasons and if anything positive can be gotten out of this situation, it would be getting the real honest to god unfiltered intent on why this happened.

The answer may not be one that people would want to hear let alone agree with, but at least it would provide an understanding to aid in getting to the core of the problem rather than trying to put a band-aid on a gun-shot wound.

Unsurprisingly digging deeper into these kinds of issues (like what psychologists, some psychiatrists, and other investigators do) does bring some of the intent (i.e. the why) to the surface and we should be supporting this regardless of the message from the killer to build a society that doesn't repeat the mistakes of the past.

I hope the parents and families of these children get through all of this.
 
  • #39


WannabeNewton said:
Anyways, the point is that humans are terrible creatures and this kind of appalling behavior is a testament to how messed up this species has become but it shouldn't come as a surprise that people do these things.
You're speaking in too generalized terms. People are able to do horrible things, but the vast majority doesn't go out murdering and severely traumatizing other people's children.

The event is truly heartbreaking.
 
  • #40


Hlafordlaes said:
However, I do wish to ask, isn't now exactly the time such a discussion should take place?
No, it isn't. This is the time when people are least rational and decisions should be based on rational thoughts.
 
  • #41


This is a dreadful event, and my condolences to all Americans in general.
 
  • #42


He had semi-automatic weapons with high capacity extended clips, an assualt rifle and a bullet proof vest. There is no reason why any civilian should be allowed to buy any these things. These can all be banned without banning guns for those that fear living without one. These are separate issues.
 
  • #43


Whoever he got the guns from needs to be locked up and whoever knew anything about this beforehand needs to be locked up.
 
  • #44


Evo said:
He had semi-automatic weapons with high capacity extended clips, an assualt rifle and a bullet proof vest. There is no reason why any civilian should be allowed to buy any these things. These can all be banned without banning guns for those that fear living without one. These are separate issues.
Back in Britain in the 19'th century, arsenic was freely sold as rat poison and insecticide.
In the 1840s and early 50s, there was a string of poisoning cases (from 1843-52, 17 out of 22 women hanged had been found guilty of arsenic poisoning), and a Sale of Arsenic Bill was passed in 1851 to regulate the trade.

It was not necessarily an irrational action from the Victorians to do so, but quite possibly a sensible one.
http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/arsenic.htm
 
  • #45


I don't think a law can be written that would prevent someone capable of trapping little children in a room and killing them one at a time from doing so without people close to the situation taking action to prevent the act. IMO -we need to find out what triggered their actions, determine if they were somehow de-sensitized, investigate how and when they obtained weapons and gear, and re-search how they were not identified in advance or if they were - what has the breakdown?
 
  • #46


Evo said:
He had semi-automatic weapons with high capacity extended clips, an assualt rifle and a bullet proof vest. There is no reason why any civilian should be allowed to buy any these things. These can all be banned without banning guns for those that fear living without one. These are separate issues.

Well, almost every gun is semi-automatic, it's the high capacity clips that are the problem in your example. Semi-automatic just means you don't need to manually reload after every shot like a musket.
 
  • #48


leroyjenkens said:
Whoever he got the guns from needs to be locked up and whoever knew anything about this beforehand needs to be locked up.

He got the guns from his mother after (or before) killing her :-/
 
  • #49


Let's not derail the thread with crackpot and doomsday scenarios. Such posts will be deleted.
 
  • #51


IMO gun laws are pretty much irrelevant to extreme events like this.

On the other hand, they probably ARE relevant to the fact that roughly the same number of people are killed in road accidents and by firearms in the USA, compared with a ratio bigger than 10:1 in the UK. But that discussion is off topic for this thread, of course.
 
  • #52


Evo said:
Wow, can't wait to hear why a kindergarten teacher was amassing such a collection.

They haven't been specific as to whether or not the assault rifle was hers. The pistols only seem to be hers which I would hardly call a collection.
 
  • #53


Pengwuino said:
They haven't been specific as to whether or not the assault rifle was hers. The pistols only seem to be hers which I would hardly call a collection.
With extended clips and a boatload of shells? Was the bullet proof vest hers?

I can see a person owning a hunting rifle or shotgun if they hunt. Or a small hand gun if they fear a home intrusion. What she owned was excessive, IMO.
 
  • #54


Evo said:
With extended clips and a boatload of shells? Was the bullet proof vest hers?

I can see a person owning a hunting rifle or shotgun if they hunt. Or a small hand gun if they fear a home intrusion. What she owned was excessive, IMO.

The important part there is that is in your opinion. You may wish to force your beliefs upon other people but that doesn't make it right.

You're also using the term clip wrongly. What you really mean is magazine.
 
  • #55


TheMadMonk said:
The important part there is that is in your opinion. You may wish to force your beliefs upon other people but that doesn't make it right.

And if you load your house with arsenic, cyanide and other excellent pesticides and insecticides, you ought to have a right to do so?

(Actually, you don't have any such rights, even though cyanide has far more useful sides than a semi-automatic)
 
  • #56


The AR-15 is not an assault rifle, it's just a low-powered semi-automatic rifle. An assault rifle is a rifle with automatic fire capability and those are already outlawed for the most part. The AR-15 can very much be used for hunting purposes and there are hunting-specific variants of the AR-15 and its bigger brother, the AR-10.
 
  • #57


TheMadMonk said:
The important part there is that is in your opinion. You may wish to force your beliefs upon other people but that doesn't make it right.

You're also using the term clip wrongly. What you really mean is magazine.
I'm quoting the news description. We can get into how many guns one person needs at home in another thread another time.
 
  • #58


arildno said:
And if you load your house with arsenic, cyanide and other excellent pesticides and insecticides, you ought to have a right to do so?

(Actually, you don't have any such rights, even though cyanide has far more useful sides than a semi-automatic)

That doesn't make any sense to me, it has been a long day.

There isn't anything stopping my having various chemicals within my house. What I do with them is where legal issues start to arise. The same is true of firearms.

Most people who legally own semi-automatic firearms will never, ever commit a crime with them. Why should they be punished when only a tiny minority are the problem. Seeking to impinge upon the freedoms of millions of people to try and prevent (and perhaps not even be successful) something happening is unacceptable in my opinion. We might as well ban anything that somebody might be able to use to commit a crime (so pretty much everything) and see where that will get us.

Clearly other people wish to force their opinions on other people but I do not agree with that in the slightest.
 
  • #59


Evo said:
I'm quoting the news description. We can get into how many guns one person needs at home in another thread another time.

You brought it up by referring to her amassing a collection so why are you allowed to comment on it but I am not?
 
  • #60


In the history of guns, the ar-15 is the precursor to the m-16 where various component parts were hardened for military use.

With respect to the extra magazine clips, the shooter could have easily purchased them without any questions asked. Not sure about the bullets but buying small quantities would probably be under the radar. The sig and glock use 9mm caliber which again is fairly common especially for target practice use.
 
  • #61


Perhaps the mother never read this:
we found that keeping a gun in the home was strongly and independently associated with an increased risk of homicide (adjusted odds ratio, 2.7; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.6 to 4.4). Virtually all of this risk involved homicide by a family member or intimate acquaintance.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506
 
  • #62


TheMadMonk said:
You brought it up by referring to her amassing a collection so why are you allowed to comment on it but I am not?
You can comment on her amassing a collection.
 
  • #63


TheMadMonk said:
That doesn't make any sense to me, it has been a long day.

There isn't anything stopping my having various chemicals within my house. What I do with them is where legal issues start to arise. The same is true of firearms.

Most people who legally own semi-automatic firearms will never, ever commit a crime with them. Why should they be punished when only a tiny minority are the problem. Seeking to impinge upon the freedoms of millions of people to try and prevent (and perhaps not even be successful) something happening is unacceptable in my opinion. We might as well ban anything that somebody might be able to use to commit a crime (so pretty much everything) and see where that will get us.

Clearly other people wish to force their opinions on other people but I do not agree with that in the slightest.
Let's restrict this to what happened with this woman's collection of guns, and their use in the murder of dozens of innocent people, nothing else concerns this thread. Your fears are not pertinent to this thread, so let's leave them out.
 
  • #64


Evo said:
You can comment on her amassing a collection.

Ok so what is the issue with the teacher owning the number and type of firearms she did?
 
  • #65


TheMadMonk said:
Ok so what is the issue with the teacher owning the number and type of firearms she did?
Oh, I don't know, maybe the fact her 20 year old son used them to commit mass murder? If she didn't have all of those guns, maybe all of those people would be alive today?
 
  • #66
Hug your kids and tell them you love them.

I just can't understand how any human could do this, now or in the past.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/history/bath/demon_2.html
 
  • #67


Evo said:
Oh, I don't know, maybe the fact her 20 year old son used them to commit mass murder?

You are trying to sidestep now.

Evo said:
Wow, can't wait to hear why a kindergarten teacher was amassing such a collection.

It is implied that a teacher having a collection of firearms is wrong in and of itself by this post. What is wrong with a teacher owning the number and type of firearms she did (ignoring your previous answer as you are trying not to answer the question)?
 
  • #68


TheMadMonk said:
You are trying to sidestep now.



It is implied that a teacher having a collection of firearms is wrong in and of itself by this post. What is wrong with a teacher owning the number and type of firearms she did (ignoring your previous answer as you are trying not to answer the question)?
No, you are reading things into it.

I'm just curious as to what her mindset was and if it had any bearing on her son's crimes.
 
  • #69


Evo said:
No, you are reading things into it.

I'm just curious as to what her mindset was and if it had any bearing on her son's crimes.

I don't think I'm reading too far into it. You clearly have an agenda regarding gun control and because you can't justify your opinions when challenged about it you are trying to spin things.

Was the male known to police previously?
 
  • #70


TheMadMonk said:
I don't think I'm reading too far into it. You clearly have an agenda regarding gun control and because you can't justify your opinions when challenged about it you are trying to spin things.

Was the male known to police previously?


It looks like you are the one with an agenda.
 

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