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Pengwuino said:Yah I also agree with this ruling. Something about simply uttering the word "God" doesn't make sense when your pledging allegiance to a nation founded out of religious principles... It's no wonder there are so many forced-conversion christians out there since our children have to say God once in a pledge they don't understand and don't care about and don't do half the time. Good thing the father made the kid lie to get his face into the news in the first place...
end sarcasm.
I'm curious as to what you are referring to?Pengwuino said:a nation founded out of religious principles
TRCSF said:The nation was founded under the idea of freedom of and from religion. To require students to swear to "One nation, under God" is a logical contradiction.
TRCSF said:If it's "just two stupid words" why the big fuss?
kyleb said:TRCSF didn't suggest that it was just two stupid words, but rather simply pointed out that you did.
WRONG!Pengwuino said:The nation was founded on freedom from Catholicism... not from religion
Good point. Why must it be taken out if its just two stupid words. I mean aren't atheists suppose to be telling their kid "God doesn't exist"? What is this crap about forcing religion on someone? When my high school use to do these dumb radio-station deal things every friday or so playing all rap music, I didn't fly off the handle and run to buy the latest Nelly CD. I was forced to listen (why the hell would you put huge ass speakers next to a LIBRARY... ugh, I am glad I am outa there) to it but I didn't feel like rap was being forced on me. Same deal here. Its a word, not a mental-reprogramming.
Freedom from imposed religion would be more correct, both in regard for our Founding Fathers rejection of the Church of England as well as the ruling on the pledge.Pengwuino said:The nation was founded on freedom from Catholicism... not from religion.
pattylou said:My kids are being taught and expected to sing "God Bless America" at their public school.
This is even more egregious to me than the "Under God" phrase.
Pengwuino said:The nation was founded on freedom from Catholicism... not from religion.
Good point. Why must it be taken out if its just two stupid words. I mean aren't atheists suppose to be telling their kid "God doesn't exist"? What is this crap about forcing religion on someone? When my high school use to do these dumb radio-station deal things every friday or so playing all rap music, I didn't fly off the handle and run to buy the latest Nelly CD. I was forced to listen (why the hell would you put huge ass speakers next to a LIBRARY... ugh, I am glad I am outa there) to it but I didn't feel like rap was being forced on me. Same deal here. Its a word, not a mental-reprogramming.
I haven't. I thought about having a word with the principal, but she's one scary *****. Flyers for Vacation Bible School came home in the backpacks last spring, as well.selfAdjoint said:Where do you live? Have you contacted the ACLU?
The Church of England was Catholic at the time, not Roman Catholic, but Catholic all the same.TRCSF said:Catholicism?
Pengwuino, it would be a lot easier to take you seriously if you understood the basics of American history.
Or Americans United for Separation of Church and State (go to the website and you can contact them) These groups help with litigation of these cases. The Bible School is not compulsory, however, it should not be conducted on school property (with tax support). The promotional flyer is something parents (I'm sure you're not the only one) can complain to the school board about.pattylou said:I haven't. I thought about having a word with the principal, but she's one scary *****. Flyers for Vacation Bible School came home in the backpacks last spring, as well.
I'm in Ventura County. What would ACLU do?
This same question was asked during the 2004 election and focus on banning gay marriage. It has become such a "shove it down your throat" environment that things like "God Bless America" bumper stickers have become offensive to me.Entropy said:I don't believe the words should be in the plegde, let alone have any plegde whatsoever. I believe the question is: is it worth all the trouble to remove it? Aren't there more pressing matters we could invest our resources in?
I agree with this, while I believe in god, religeon should not be forced upon children. Definitely talk to the school board. maybe the superintendant, it could be something across the district!pattylou said:I haven't. I thought about having a word with the principal, but she's one scary *****. Flyers for Vacation Bible School came home in the backpacks last spring, as well.
I'm in Ventura County. What would ACLU do?
Saying God Bless America is a violation of the commandment "Do not take the Lords name in Vain". Asking god to bless this nation over others is an act of vanity while invoking the lords name!SOS2008 said:It has become such a "shove it down your throat" environment that things like "God Bless America" bumper stickers have become offensive to me.
Is that not clear?Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Why exactly do you have a problem with them being taught and asked to sing the song? I have a friend who is incredibly non-christian but he has on multiple occasions joined christian choirs to be able to sing and he didn't care what the content of the songs were. Can you not just ask that your children be excused from this particular event? And is it really that important to you or the children?pattylou said:My kids are being taught and expected to sing "God Bless America" at their public school.
This is even more egregious to me than the "Under God" phrase.
I find it offensive because of the entire school environment.Why exactly do you have a problem with them being taught and asked to sing the song?
I completely understand. I'm not unsympathetic because I'm single without children. My previously mentioned friend is a father (and divorced) and I discuss parenting and the like with him on occasion and assist him in activities with his son.pattylou said:I find it offensive because of the entire school environment.
Wealthy white fundamentalist christians driving SUV's and slapping "support the troops" ribbons (made in China) on the back; having prayer breakfasts before school and having class assignments writing letters to the president telling him five nice things about himself; conversations with parents saying they are angry that science will teach their children they evolved from monkeys (wrong), the spelling list this week comprised of exclusively war-like words (comrades, opponents, combat, endure, etc)...
This sort of environment poises several buttons in my brain, those buttons that have always held a slightly different view from this gestalt, ready to go off but still in check ...
And then hearing my sweet, caring, loving five year old singing a song that clearly asks God to favor the United States of America.
The idea of asking God for favor over someone else is bad enough, but in the context of everything else going on, and having this come from the public school, pushes my buttons.
SA, If I were without kids, and if I were still single, these 'buttons' wouldn't be installed. If anything I'd think "Quirky parents, they should get a life." Maybe I should try to adopt that attitude, or ... maybe it is OK for me to be upset that an institution which is supposed to maintain the separation of church and state is imposing blind nationalism values on my kids.
I don't really think they (my kids) will absorb it, I just find it incredibly insensitive of the school. It's wrong. It's just wrong.
I play some religious cd's, some of it's beautiful. I'm glad your friend sings in a group he enjoys. The distinction is what we choose for ourselves and our families, and what we wouldn't - and I would never choose to teach my kids that God's favor (at someone else's expense) can be garnered through prayer.
Free exercise of religion not good enough for you?McGyver said:This ruling only adds support to the Republican party's complaint of judicial activism, and furthers the conservatives' argument against such rulings. This ruling lacks common sense, as well as prior precident. It is cutting hairs, and when Roberts and O'conners replacement is confirmed, there will be a backlash. Stupid. Stupid.
The Church of England was Catholic at the time, not Roman Catholic, but Catholic all the same.