Obama's speech on education banned from schools

[Evo]

I think this is just crazy. I really don't know what to say about the people that are accusing Obama of "brainwashing" their children by encouraging them to stay in school.

On September 8, in what the Department of Education is touting as a "historic" speech, President Obama will be talking directly to students across the U.S., live on the White House website. But some parents and conservatives are blasting the president, calling the speech an excuse to brainwash American children.

Last month, in an interview with 11-year-old student reporter Damon Weaver, the president announced his big back-to-school plan:

"I'm going to be making a big speech to young people all across the country about the importance of education; about the importance of staying in school; how we want to improve our education system and why it’s so important for the country. So I hope everybody tunes in."

tunes in."

Secretary of Education Arne Duncan sent a letter to the nation's principals, inviting schools to watch the speech and included suggested classroom activities. But Jim Greer, the chairman of the Republican Party of Florida, came out swinging against the planned speech. An excerpt from his statement:

"The address scheduled for September 8, 2009, does not allow for healthy debate on the President's agenda, but rather obligates the youngest children in our public school system to agree with our President's initiatives or be ostracized by their teachers and classmates."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20090903/pl_ynews/ynews_pl888_1

 

[rootX]

People seem to think Obama is incapable of doing anything right because he is democratic.P

 

[Wax]

It's propaganda and most of it starts at FOX news.

 

[turbo]

People seem to think Obama is incapable of doing anything right because he is democratic.P

Or in some circles, being PWB.

What is wrong with people? What is wrong about the president addressing children, emphasizing how important education is to their futures? Bush got bipartisan support for "No Child Left Behind" though the plan was poorly designed, levied mandates on states who had a hard time paying for them, and resulted in widespread cheating so that schools could maximize their scores, regardless of whether the children were educated instead of being trained to take tests. The latter is a very useful tool for gauging the results of teaching - it should never have been made the penultimate goal of school administrators.

 

[Phrak]

OK... The Republicans are agin'it. The schools are fer'it. And nobody knows what's in it.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I didn't see where it says it was "banned".

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

striking response to deleted post

 

[noblegas]

I am more concern if Obama is going to addressed the problems currently plaguing public schools in general rather than just mindlessly tell students to stay in school. I am more concerned with the quality of education high school graduates received rather whether or not high school students just meet the minimum requirements for graduation. I would hope obama addresses the plans on how the education czar he appointed would reform education in the US and I would want him to address specifically what education policies have been implemented in the past and which ones have failed at improving education and why his education reforms would be better the education reforms of past adminstrations ; http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/24/AR2005122400701.html; Furthermore, why should one invest 12 years of there life in public schools "learning" pertinent facts that will drive them towards success in life in the future when only 31 percent of high school graduates are considered to be proficient in reading and a handful of 8th graders are performing at an advanced reading level (http://www.reading.org/downloads/meetings/ILD2007_literacy_facts.pdf )
and most students in public schools are not taught american history very well and history is usually presented in a way where you find yourself just memorizing facts rather than understanding why certain historical events took place; (http://www.historians.org/pubs/archives/AmericanHistory_1944/1_Do_Americans_Know_Their_Own_History.htm); I can definitely attest to the last fact . In my high school, we did not even study all of american history, only american history beginning after the US civil war;

 

[Al68]

I would hope obama addresses the plans on how the education czar he appointed would reform education in the US and I would want him to address specifically what education policies have been implemented in the past and which ones have failed at improving education and why his education reforms would be better the education reforms of past adminstrations...

This is exactly what some parents are afraid of - That Obama will use the speech for propaganda, making claims about the success and failures of different policies, claims they disagree with to say the least, instead of just encouraging them to stay in school, etc.

Does anyone have any info on the speech's planned content? It seems premature to judge it either way otherwise.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It will be posted online before the speech takes place. This will allow parents who object to keep their kids home that day. The "controversial" aspects of the speech have been retracted - that would be the part where Obama was to try to get kids to think about how they can help the country.

This is beyond belief. With all of the lies and propoganda fed the US during the Bush admin [many people still think we were attacked by Saddam on 911], for these people to protest NOW over something like a motivational school speech just shows that they are all nuts. I guess this is right up there with the objections to teaching science in schools.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I am becoming convinced that the greatest threat to this nation is not the debt or the deficit, or the dwindling manufacturing base, or our dependence on foreign oil, or the cost of medical care and entitlements. The greatest threats are right-wing nuts who are dividing this nation with crazy talk and lies.

If the terrorists really want to do us in, just send money to Rush Limbaugh and his buddies. Therein lies our achilles heel - stupidity!

 

[edward]

From my morning paper:

There is supposed to be classroom discussion after the speech. Arizona Superintendant of Public Schools Tom Horne issued a press release stating that this may encourage students to see Obama in a worshipful manner.

Flowing Wells Unified School District Superintendent Nicholas Clement opened his inbox Thursday to an e-mail from a parent saying Obama's address "is an inappropriate attempt to campaign to our nation's youth under the guise of an educational message."

In the Amphitheater Public Schools, Superintendent Vicki Balentine said she's heard similar concerns from about two dozen people.
Much of it, she said, stemmed from misinformation. Some callers thought the purpose of the speech was to sell kids on health care, or to address students about homosexuality.

http://www.azstarnet.com/

 

[fourier jr]

This is exactly what some parents are afraid of - That Obama will use the speech for propaganda, making claims about the success and failures of different policies, claims they disagree with to say the least, instead of just encouraging them to stay in school, etc.

Does anyone have any info on the speech's planned content? It seems premature to judge it either way otherwise.

lol could be any more political than what the great ronald reagan said to junior high school students in 1988 :rofl:

We also find that more countries than ever before are following America's revolutionary economic message of free enterprise, low taxes, and open world trade. These days, whenever I see foreign leaders, they tell me about their plans for reducing taxes and other economic reforms that they're using, copying what we have done here in our country. I wonder if they realize that this vision of economic freedom -- the freedom to work, to create and produce, to own and use property without the interference of the state -- was central to the American Revolution when the American colonists rebelled against a whole web of economic restrictions, taxes, and barriers to free trade. The message at the Boston Tea Party -- have you studied yet in history about the Boston Tea Party, where, because of a tax, they went down and dumped the tea in the harbor? Well, that was America's original tax revolt. And it was the fruits of our labor -- belonged to us, and not to the state. And that truth is fundamental to both liberty and prosperity.

http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1988/111488c.htm

 

[edward]

Get Schooled a conference/documantary initiated by Bill and melinda Gates premeirs that night. The Obama speech is at noon.

As announced last week, the 30-minute Get Schooled: You Have the Right documentary will air on Sept. 8 at 8 p.m. and will feature President Barack Obama, Kelly Clarkson, and LeBron James. The program will highlight the education challenges, life choices and breakthroughs experienced by President Obama's speechwriter Sarah Hurwitz, Clarkson's music director Jason HAlbert, and James' sports marketing executive Latesha Williams--three professionals who provide critical support to these leading figures in politics, entertainment, and sports, respectively. The documentary special will be aired in the first programming "roadblock" of any kind across all Viacom networks, including BET, MTV, VH1, CMT, Comedy Central, Spike TV, TV Land, and Nickelodeon. Cable partners for the television premiere of Get Schooled: You Have the Right include Comcast, Cablevision, Cox Communications, and Bright House Networks.

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/press-releases/Pages/get-schooled-documentary-launches-in-hollywood-090827.aspx

The wing nuts here are going crazy. There are Lots of comments in the online version of the news paper. The names Hitler, Stalin, and Lenin come up a lot. The speech has been labeled as a socialist conspiracy to brainwash our children.

The whole blasted comments page looks like something out of the Twilight Zone. How supposedly sane people come up with such paranoid garbage is beyond me.

 

[Al68]

lol could be any more political than what the great ronald reagan said to junior high school students in 1988 :rofl:

We also find that more countries than ever before are following America's revolutionary economic message of free enterprise, low taxes, and open world trade. These days, whenever I see foreign leaders, they tell me about their plans for reducing taxes and other economic reforms that they're using, copying what we have done here in our country. I wonder if they realize that this vision of economic freedom -- the freedom to work, to create and produce, to own and use property without the interference of the state -- was central to the American Revolution when the American colonists rebelled against a whole web of economic restrictions, taxes, and barriers to free trade. The message at the Boston Tea Party -- have you studied yet in history about the Boston Tea Party, where, because of a tax, they went down and dumped the tea in the harbor? Well, that was America's original tax revolt. And it was the fruits of our labor -- belonged to us, and not to the state. And that truth is fundamental to both liberty and prosperity.

Exactly. Socialists would consider Reagan's speech to be propaganda. (Just look at how he advocated such evil as economic freedom and knowledge of American history and patriotism).

 

[WhoWee]

I think this is just crazy. I really don't know what to say about the people that are accusing Obama of "brainwashing" their children by encouraging them to stay in school.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20090903/pl_ynews/ynews_pl888_1

I think any concerned parents should be asked to join their children and hear the speech for themselves. When their children ask questions, they will be able to discuss the content specifically.

 

[turbo]

I think any concerned parents should be asked to join their children and hear the speech for themselves. When their children ask questions, they will be able to discuss the content specifically.

Finally! An adult.

 

[fourier jr]

Exactly. Socialists would consider Reagan's speech to be propaganda. (Just look at how he advocated such evil as economic freedom and knowledge of American history and patriotism).

seriously, how is it not an explicit political message? how is it less political than a banal message about working hard & staying in school? it's a simple case of fox news implying that reagan's message wasn't political because they liked it (& reagan too) & anything obama says is, because they don't like him. & isn't it ironic that parents are telling their kids to skip school that day :tongue:

 

[Hurkyl]

This is beyond belief. With all of the lies and propoganda fed the US during the Bush admin [many people still think we were attacked by Saddam on 911], for these people to protest NOW over something like a motivational school speech just shows that they are all nuts. I guess this is right up there with the objections to teaching science in schools.

Who's protesting over a motivational school speech? The news article talks about people protesting over the accompanying lesson plan being pushed onto the schools.

But, I suppose propaganda is okay as long as it comes from the Obama administration instead of the Bush one?

 

[kyleb]

But, I suppose propaganda is okay as long as it comes from the Obama administration instead of the Bush one?

What are you referring to as propaganda, specifically?

 

[Al68]

seriously, how is it not an explicit political message? how is it less political than a banal message about working hard & staying in school? it's a simple case of fox news implying that reagan's message wasn't political because they liked it (& reagan too) & anything obama says is, because they don't like him.

Where did you hear this? Got a link?

As far as Reagan's speech, my point was that it was political. It was intended to be pro-American, pro-free enterprise, etc. Of course it was political.

Who is claiming otherwise?

 

[Hurkyl]

What are you referring to ask propaganda, specifically?

I was jabbing at Ivan's comments. "Propaganda" isn't the right word for what the lesson plans described in the news article are being accused of.

 

[kyleb]

So, what exactly are you suggesting Ivan believes "is okay as long as it comes from the Obama administration instead of the Bush one"?

 

[fourier jr]

Where did you hear this? Got a link?

As far as Reagan's speech, my point was that it was political. It was intended to be pro-American, pro-free enterprise, etc. Of course it was political.

depends on how you spin it i guess. is that not anti-government propaganda? sounds pretty simple reagan propaganda = good, obama propaganda = bad

 

[Al68]

Where did you hear this? Got a link?

As far as Reagan's speech, my point was that it was political. It was intended to be pro-American, pro-free enterprise, etc. Of course it was political.

is that not anti-government propaganda?

No. Reagan's speech wasn't anti-government, it was anti-socialist government. There's a big difference.

sounds pretty simple reagan propaganda = good, obama propaganda = bad

Well, I personally believe anti-socialist, pro-freedom propaganda is good, yes.

As far as Obama's speech, I don't know what it contains, so I couldn't say. Rumor has it he has decided to take any propaganda out of it.

 

[Galteeth]

As someone who is sympathetic to a right wing, libertarian point of view, i agree this is nuts.

I can understand the underlying arguments one could make; from the constitutionsalist "federal government shouldn't be involved in the schools", all the way to the anarchist "the president who rules by means of violence shouldn't be respected."

But the reaction to this, given the state of current affairs, makes no sense. Talk about putting the cart before the horse. I have a hard time believing these people have taken such a sudden hard radical turn towards a constitutionalist or anarcist position. Even if they have, a "stay in school kids" speech is pretty low on the outrage list. If you were concerned about these issues, a more logical target would be things like the no child left behind act, or even the notion of government schools althogether.

This stinks of the worse kind of mindless reactionaryism. It is unfortunate that Glenn beck's cult is giving people who don't trust the government a bad name.

 

[Al68]

I have a hard time believing these people have taken such a sudden hard radical turn towards a constitutionalist or anarcist position.

I don't know who you are referring to, but lumping constitutionalist and anarchist positions together seems odd. There's an obvious difference between being against an outlaw government and being against any government.

Of course neither position seems relevant to this topic. It's just a speech.

 

[Galteeth]

I don't know who you are referring to, but lumping constitutionalist and anarchist positions together seems odd. There's an obvious difference between being against an outlaw government and being against any government.

Of course neither position seems relevant to this topic. It's just a speech.

Let me put it a different way: I'm not sure where these people are coming from. I was giving hypothetical political motivations for the protest. It seems to be associated with a "right wing" point of view. My point was, even in the context of concerns about socialism or government encroachment on schools, this target doesn't make sense.

 

[Al68]

Let me put it a different way: I'm not sure where these people are coming from. I was giving hypothetical political motivations for the protest. It seems to be associated with a "right wing" point of view. My point was, even in the context of concerns about socialism or government encroachment on schools, this target doesn't make sense.

I understand, my remark was only about lumping constitutionalists with anarchists.

I haven't heard anyone suggest that Obama's speech should be "banned" or prohibited, and no one has provided a link to any such suggestion, so I can only assume that the claim was fabricated.

I've only heard suggestions that Obama shouldn't use the speech to tout his education agenda, that many parents disagree with. And my understanding is that he decided not to, anyway.

This thread seems to be much ado about nothing to me.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

But David, you know, you said, it's a firestorm. And we live in the age of firestorms. You know, today, or this week, it's the president speaking in school. What it needs is for people to stand up and say that's flat out stupid, OK? That's flat out stupid what you're talking about. The president of the United States, addressing schoolchildren in this country to study hard, work hard because that's the way you advance in today's global economy. And instead of that, we kind of dance around it, you know. It's flat out stupid.

- Tom Friedman
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32703935/ns/meet_the_press/page/4/

 

[Hurkyl]

- Tom Friedman
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32703935/ns/meet_the_press/page/4/

What are you trying to say, Ivan?

 

[kyleb]

I am fairly sure he is suggesting there is no intellectual basis for hostility towards the plans for Obama's speech. I got the impression you were trying to say otherwise previously, but you haven't rightly been forthcoming with your position.

 

[Jasongreat]

People seem to think Obama is incapable of doing anything right because he is democratic.P

IMHO I think Obama is incapable of doing anything right because of the empirical evidence.

 

[Hurkyl]

I am fairly sure he is suggesting there is no intellectual basis for hostility towards the plans for Obama's speech.

Oh, so it's just a "They're wrong. Nyah nyah!" type post?

I got the impression you were trying to say otherwise previously, but you haven't rightly been forthcoming with your position.

My primary agenda was to make people aware that the controversy was not about Obama speaking, but about the accompanying lesson plans. This was successful. (whether or not I actually helped)

My secondary agenda is to get Ivan to stop using argument forms that boil down to "It's okay because it's Obama" and the diversionary "hey look, the Bush administration was bad".

 

[Al68]

My secondary agenda is to get Ivan to stop using argument forms that boil down to "It's okay because it's Obama" and the diversionary "hey look, the Bush administration was bad".

Good luck with that.