Is dowsing a reliable technique for finding well sites?

[Ivan Seeking]

Dowsing confirmed as "real" ?

...In 1986, GTZ presented in its series of publications a special report number 183 on a project in the northern dry zone districts of Sri Lanka, where dowsing techniques have been implemented on a large scale for the identification of well sites [1]. The resulting success and the economic benefit turned out to be unexpectedly high, thus justifying this unconventional technique despite all initial doubts and reservations, put forward from various parties ...

The dowsing competence of an expert appointed by GTZ, Dipl.-Ing. Hans Schröter, was checked within a large scientific research program. A detailed final report of the investigation has been published [2]. It contains all practical procedures and results of the project, performed by a team of 14 scientists from 9 different institutions situated in and around Munich; the financing and control of the study was executed by the German Ministry for Research and Technology, along with another scientific group appointed by the Ministry. A series of rigorous tests showed that Schröter was, amongst some 50 tested persons, the most successful participant and his dowsing talent could be proven with a great statistical significance.

GTZ examined the speculation that the dowsing technique may also be of practical usefulness in other representative field programs, namely with respect to the increase of success rates. The results obtained up to now are contained in the following report: despite all possible objections, these results lead us to the conclusion that the said speculation is largely corroborated by the facts.

Within a framework of cooperation between GTZ and a project team from Munich who participated in the above mentioned dowsing investigation, it was agreed to adopt a more scientific approach with regard to relevant future GTZ projects. This includes a field test of particular measuring devices and detailed discussions amongst specialists in the field of Earth sciences, regarding the dowsing technique and the corresponding results obtained from GTZ projects. Of course, it cannot be expected that an extremely complex and historically developed problem, such as dowsing in conjunction with its immediate environment, may be satisfactorily solved within a short time and rendered acceptable on a general basis. Nevertheless, it clearly appears that this technique has been gaining more importance for particular, well specified tasks [2]. Former experiences already showed that it could be gainfully and reproducibly implemented in the field of geohydrology, provided that some careful precautions and controls were considered [3]. [continued]

http://www.scientificexploration.org/jse/articles/betz/1.html

 

[wolram]

dowsing has been used successfully for years,the only reason
it hasn't been accepted scientifically is no one knows how it
works. the British society of dowsers has been in existence
for 60 YRs or more, but like other things it never works when
tests are shown on tv.

 

[SanguineHorizon]

So far as those who actually participate in Dowsing can fathom, the best current theory seems to be the infamous 'Ley Lines' and such. Can anyone offer a scientific interperetation of these Ley Lines??

 

[quddusaliquddus]

Maybe they should compare the results with random points on the ground instead of the professional's techniques, the dowsers may not be good at it when compared to the usual methods - the usual guys might just be bad at it.

Wolram:
"dowsing has been used successfully for years,the only reason
it hasn't been accepted scientifically is no one knows how it
works. the British society of dowsers has been in existence
for 60 YRs or more, but like other things it never works when
tests are shown on tv."

The existence of a society dedicated to things doesn't make it more credible (unless if tis can be shown that they're good @ what they do). While doing Physics, my teacher gave a hand-out on the Flat Earth Society of Britain. I don't know how long they've been around (my guess is quiet a while!) - but they're still active if you can believe it.

 

[wolram]

http://www.occultopedia.com/l/ley_lines.htm
ley lines, a term first used by Watkins.
quddusaliquddus, many tests semi and scientific have been done
to prove disprove dowsing with various results, some people
seem to have a "knack", and do find find "targets", but who knows
how.

 

[arildno]

To all dowsers out there:
There's a MILLION U.S DOLLARS to be won; just prove the efficacy of dowsing to the James Randi Foundation!

 

[Overdose]

To all dowsers out there:
There's a MILLION U.S DOLLARS to be won; just prove the efficacy of dowsing to the James Randi Foundation!

man if i hear that name one more time...any experiment which has
a million dollars at stake if it doesn't go the experimenter's way is always going to be biased and ultimately flawed.
And the way he always mentions it whenever he gets he's weird face on telly; as if its some kind of standing testiment to the illegitimate nature of pretty much anything that baffles his brain.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I have a little book called Lightning Bolt Generators which is about how to make various electrostatic generators. It has a list of things "that have a predisposition for taking on a negative or positive charge" in order of their tendency to do this. First on the positive side is air. Second is human hands.

It occurred to me that this tendency of human hands to take on a positive charge might tie into dowsing somehow. It doesn't seem to be a subtle thing. Hands are placed on the list as more positive than glass, human hair, wool, or silk.

I don't know how this would translate into dowsing, but it seemed signifigant.

 

[Artman]

I know mechanical contractors that use dowsing to locate terra cotta piping underground. It works. I don't know why or how, but it works.

 

[russ_watters]

A series of rigorous tests showed that Schröter was, amongst some 50 tested persons, the most successful participant and his dowsing talent could be proven with a great statistical significance.

Without the specifics of the test, its tough to interpret this, but just off the top of my head, it sounds like any other random probability. With a group of 50 people, random chance will give one the highest success rate. Did they take that guy and do a second set of tests just with him to see if the results are repeatable?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Without the specifics of the test, its tough to interpret this, but just off the top of my head, it sounds like any other random probability. With a group of 50 people, random chance will give one the highest success rate. Did they take that guy and do a second set of tests just with him to see if the results are repeatable?

I don't know anything more that discussed in the link. I do want to follow up on all of this later though. Given my own belief in dowsing due to two family members who seemingly have this ability - my father and uncle - one of these days I want to learn all that we know about this claim/issue, so far. Ironically, since I accepted long ago that this "art" must be due to a perfectly natural ability I have never really learned much about it. My dad has used it so successfully that he never doubted that a known explanation must exist [he was a Chem E and is prone to very logical thinking]. He was quite surprised when I told him that science does not recognize this as a genuine, natural, human ability.

 

[quddusaliquddus]

Wow Ivan_Seeking! Ever tried it?

 

[mouseonmoon]

Artman
I know mechanical contractors that use dowsing to locate terra cotta piping underground. It works. I don't know why or how, but it works.

====
Anyone ever hear of "Spook Rods"?
They're used to find 'graves'...
The City of Norfolk (Virginia) has a set at Magnolia Cemetery:
I 'tested' 'em out--friend worked there--he's now a Supervisor
This is an old cemetery and had number of unmarked graves-
Think they're copper rods bent so as to fit in 'handles' so they
can spin around--when you stand over a 'grave' (or water line)
the rods cross/come together---(worked for me!)--the 'effect'
is like a magnetic force...just 'standard operating procedure'!

 

[zoobyshoe]

Anyone ever hear of "Spook Rods"?
They're used to find 'graves'...

If such things actually work, I think it supports the theory I proposed in the other dowsing thread, that what the dowser is actually sensing is the disturbed magnetic field of the ferrites in the soil.

This could be tested by digging a trench, filling it back in, letting it grow over, and then letting as many reputable dowsers as you could get to participate to dowse the area without telling them they are dowsing for a trench with nothing in it.

If dowsing for pipes works by sensing the water or metal (in the case of steel pipes) you would expect there to be no "hits" whatever on the empty trench.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Wow Ivan_Seeking! Ever tried it?

Funny enough, no...which is really silly given my interests. Given my renewed interest - due to our recent discussions here - I guess I really do have to try it. I will let you know how it goes.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

If such things actually work, I think it supports the theory I proposed in the other dowsing thread, that what the dowser is actually sensing is the disturbed magnetic field of the ferrites in the soil.

This could be tested by digging a trench, filling it back in, letting it grow over, and then letting as many reputable dowsers as you could get to participate to dowse the area without telling them they are dowsing for a trench with nothing in it.

If dowsing for pipes works by sensing the water or metal (in the case of steel pipes) you would expect there to be no "hits" whatever on the empty trench.

I have a creek, steel [mostly empty] pipes, PVC water pipes, and underground aquifers on my property. If I am able to do this with any success I will have a good range of things to try. Also, my dad is supposed to be here next month. Being over 70 I'm sure he hasn't done this in many years, but I will see if he is up for a demo.

 

[Arctic Fox]

I do it and am quite successful at it.

I worked at a water-well drilling company once. A few times the crew had to know where old existing water lines were before drilling - most times they resorted to hand digging 4 foot holes all over the area. I resorted to just dowsing for the lines and found them every time; when the rods crossed, I had one of the crew dig down and there was the line. I got a $2/hr raise when the boss found out about my 'abilities'.

I tried teaching another coworker how to do this, but all he could ever find was fat tree roots...

 

[zoobyshoe]

I have a creek, steel [mostly empty] pipes, PVC water pipes, and underground aquifers on my property. If I am able to do this with any success I will have a good range of things to try. Also, my dad is supposed to be here next month. Being over 70 I'm sure he hasn't done this in many years, but I will see if he is up for a demo.

I think the presence of aquifers will negate the whole thing. Where could you be expected to go wrong with aquifers? How, also, could you determine if a miss for pipes wasn't a hit for an aquifer without drilling a well?

I think my disturbed Earth test would only be valid over a place known not to have aquifers. (The desert outside Las Vegas might be a good place to test both for disturbed Earth and mouseonmoon's "spook rods" effect. Might find Jimmy Hoffa.)

 

[Arctic Fox]

Remember that dowsing can find just about anything - if you’re looking for waterlines, electrical conduit, jewelry, missing animals, stolen vehicles - it’s really just about putting the image in your mind, then finding it... it’s that simple (for me, anyway).

If you’re looking for an aquifer, it would be as easy as thinking about a large body of underground water, not just pipes/roots/streams. :)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I think the presence of aquifers will negate the whole thing. Where could you be expected to go wrong with aquifers? How, also, could you determine if a miss for pipes wasn't a hit for an aquifer without drilling a well?

The good news is that I know where the water is located, the bad news is that I know where the water is located. This is obviously not a "good" test, but for my own interests it is really quite incredible that I have never tried. I guess I never wanted to be seen by the neighbors...after the exploding cow episode I have to watch my step.

I will keep alert for any hints of Hoffa.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Remember that dowsing can find just about anything - if you’re looking for waterlines, electrical conduit, jewelry, missing animals, stolen vehicles - it’s really just about putting the image in your mind, then finding it... it’s that simple (for me, anyway).

You're not dowsing. You're scrying.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I do it and am quite successful at it.

If it could be arranged at some time in the future, might you be available for testing by a local university...maybe on a weekend?

 

[Arctic Fox]

If it could be arranged at some time in the future, might you be available for testing by a local university...maybe on a weekend?

LOL! Sure, depends on where this university is and if I can drive there and back in time for work (usually on-call 24/7).

 

[Ivan Seeking]

You're not dowsing. You're scrying.

Wow! I never heard that one. I checked and I'm coming up with a little different defintion.

Scrying is the occult practice of seeing the past, present, or future in a shining surface such as black glass, a crystal ball, or a bowl of water. Scrying constitutes a form of divination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrying

 

[Ivan Seeking]

LOL! Sure, depends on where this university is and if I can drive there and back in time for work (usually on-call 24/7).

What would you estimate is the likelihood that you have an eye for the land and that you know about where to look? I don't mean to imply that you are lying or being insincere, rather that you might be picking up on subtle clues around you that prime you to react, even without your intension to do so.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Wow! I never heard that one. I checked and I'm coming up with a little different defintion.

I am the victim of television. On Charmed they frequently dangle a crystal on a string over a map and it comes to rest at the location of whatever or whoever they're trying to find. They call this "scrying". I shouldn't trust T.V.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I shouldn't trust T.V.

Oh my gosh no. Trust only Art Bell. :rofl:

 

[mouseonmoon]

from Phactum, the newsletter of the Philadelphia Association for Critical Thinking

Dowsing is as Easy as Pi
**-- by Tom Napier "...any computer-proficient skeptic could carry out a control experiment. (Hint, this would make a neat science fair project.) "

http://www.phact.org/dowsing.htm

ps enjoy the ad above!:Quality Dowsing Tools
Pendulums, divining rods, books dowsing tips, free updates, classes !

 

[Arctic Fox]

What would you estimate is the likelihood that you have an eye for the land and that you know about where to look? I don't mean to imply that you are lying or being insincere, rather that you might be picking up on subtle clues around you that prime you to react, even without your intension to do so.

That could be a possibility;

1) Finding my friend's stolen truck... I did know where the bad part of the town was and where it may already be, but my 'dowsing rods' pointed to the exact parking lot.

2) Missing animals... I would think they could be anywhere. I had lost one of my cats once in a forest. Was able to find his body a week later about 1km from where I last saw him.

3) Co-worker's jewelry... she had lost a gold bracelet somewhere on the property (I do know where she could/couldn’t have been). When I went dowsing for it (in the rain), the rods kept pointing to her truck. She insisted it wasn't in there, but I 'knew' it had to be - I never EVER doubt these feelings. After her looking in the truck, the rods kept pointing to the glovebox - she dug out all of the stuff from inside and actually found another gold bracelet she had lost several months earlier. Although I never was able to find the original, a gold bracelet IS what I was looking for and found. :)


My thinking on this, though, is that we all know where this stuff is, we just need a little help finding it. Be it a 'power', 'gift', or just constantly lucky, anyone can do it. It does take a little practice... ;)

 

[mouseonmoon]

Artic Fox
1) Finding my friend's stolen truck... I did know where the bad part of the town was and where it may already be, but my 'dowsing rods' pointed to the exact parking lot.
etc..

this is beyond 'dowsning' imo...in my post about 'Spook rods' for example-these were 'updated' 'dowsing rods' (actually remember my granddad using a birch twig (?) not sure of the details-but a branch was 'split' and he held the split ends and would walk along the ground and the end would go down when he crossed an underground stream...this is 'wierd',cos I'm wondering now why he demonstrated this to me--and yeah, i remember the 'stick' being 'pulled down' when walking over the 'stream' (underground) like 'magic'...this was in North Carolina and more or less 'common knowledge'--folks would use this method to find places to dig a well...he was an 'intelligent guy' and may have been 'conducting an experiment'...there was 'talk' about building a new house back in that area-and there was an 'artesian well'(just a place where the water came out of the ground and started a 'spring'...)

anyway, I've 'experienced' 'dowsing' for water with a 'stick' and the 'metal Spook rods'...walked all over the cemetery and was 'amazed'...just like a child with the 'stick'...don't know what to make of it?-bizarre but 'something happens'!,,,,wierd!

Still, what you're doing (experiencing) goes 'way beyond' dowsing! imho!

 

[zoobyshoe]

I agree. I've never heard of dowsing for lost objects. It sounds like what you're doing is more on the lines of psychic phenomenon under the guise of dowsing.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I think if I had this ability...there is a place in Arkansas that is an ancient volcanic crater, and it is the only known diamond mine in the US. It is actually a National Park, and is open to the public for diamond digging. It costs something like $5 a day to dig to your heart's content. People frequently find very little diamonds and about two quite substantial ones are found a year: worth hundreds of thousands. You should check it out, Arctic Fox. If your abilities are as good as you claim you could retire for life after an afternoon's work.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Here it is:

Crater of Diamonds State Park: State Parks:*Arkansas State Parks
Address:http://www.arkansasstateparks.com/parks/park.asp?id=22

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I agree. I've never heard of dowsing for lost objects. It sounds like what you're doing is more on the lines of psychic phenomenon under the guise of dowsing.

One of the more impressive cases of divination that reportedly can be confirmed [I have never done so] is that [approximately] of two men and a small pickup truck that disappeared...in think in Michigan. When the police became frustrated, and I don't remember why or how...but a "psychic" was suggested and brought into see if any clues would be revealed. This upper middle age gent held a small pendant and chain over a local map and began scanning the map with the pendant swinging - waiting for a rotation or something distinctive in the motion. According to the detective interviewed, the psychic landed the two missing men and the truck far out in Lake Michigan. He was thanked and sent home. Later, when a piece of clothing or a part of the truck floated onshore near the location indicated by the psychic, the police called him in again and set out by boat. Using the pendant and a map, the psychic directed the sheriff’s boat directly to the sunken truck and the two men. Apparently they had tried to cross the frozen lake in late winter and the ice gave way. Several law enforcement officials were interviewed and confirmed the story. AFAIK this is a true story; I saw the interviews.

This sounds similar to our Mr. Fox.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Also, I have an alternative line of reasoning for this case; maybe worth considering.

Suppose the psychic was really a long time local who knew that people sometimes disappeared without a trace while trying to cross the lake. He also knows that only one or two places are likely to be crossed...due to motivation – e.g. easy access, where to go, and distance. Maybe this sort of thing happens every ten, or twenty years and the ole duffer knew this. From there he might simply follow the likely path and hope to spot the sunken truck. Maybe a little luck combined with a cheap con can make for an incredible story?

Anyway, no definite opinion either way on my part, but it struck me that this or some similar line of reasoning might make sense and still be consistent with the essential facts from the story.