Countable But Not Second Countable Topological Space

In summary, the conversation discusses examples and proofs related to topological spaces that are countable but not second countable. The first example mentioned is the topology of a countable set \mathbb{N}\times\mathbb{N}, where open sets do not contain (0,0) and can only miss infinitely many points in a finite number of columns. This topology is not first countable, let alone second countable. The second example involves a topology on a set X = \mathbb{N} \cup \{\mathbb{N}\} using a free ultrafilter F on \mathbb{N}, which also fails to be first countable. The conversation then considers the possibility of a countable space that
  • #1
Nolen Ryba
32
0
I'm wondering if someone can furnish me with either an example of a topological space that is countable (cardinality) but not second countable or a proof that countable implies second countable. Thanks.
 
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  • #2
Take the countable set [itex]\mathbb{N}\times\mathbb{N}[/itex]. Topologize it by making any set that doesn't contain (0,0) open, and if a set does contain (0,0), it's open iff it contains all but a finite number of points in all but a finite number of columns. (Draw a picture. If an open set contains (0,0), then it can only miss infinitely many points in a finite number of columns, while it misses finitely many points in all the other columns.)

Now this topology doesn't have a countable base at (0,0), so it's not first countable let alone second countable.

Source: Steen & Seebach, Counterexamples in Topology, page 54. They call it the Arens-Fort Space.
 
  • #3
Thanks! I own that book so I'll be having a look pretty soon.
 
  • #4
I've been thinking about this a little bit more, and I believe I have another example, although it's a bit more 'sophisticated' in that it requires a bit of advanced set theory.

This time our countable set is X = [itex]\mathbb{N} \cup \{\mathbb{N}\}[/itex]. Take any free ultrafilter F on [itex]\mathbb{N}[/itex], and define a topology on X by letting each subset {n} of [itex]\mathbb{N}[/itex] be open, and defining nbhds of [itex]\left{\mathbb{N}\right}[/itex] to be those of the form [itex]\{\mathbb{N}\} \cup U[/itex], where U is in F. As in the previous example, this topology fails to have a countable base at [itex]\left{\mathbb{N}\right}[/itex] (because we cannot have a countable base for any free ultrafilter on the naturals), so again it fails to be first countable.

Edit:
Hmm... Now I'm wondering if there's a countable space that's first countable but not second countable!

Edit2:
Maybe that was silly. If X is countable and has a first countable topology, then the union of the bases at each of its points is the countable union of countable sets and is hence countable (and a basis for the topology). So, I'm lead to conclude that a countable, first countable space is necessarily second countable.
 
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1. What is a countable but not second countable topological space?

A countable but not second countable topological space is a mathematical concept that describes a topological space with a countably infinite number of open sets, but does not have a countable basis. This means that although there are infinitely many open sets, they cannot be written as a countable union of other open sets.

2. How is a countable but not second countable topological space different from a second countable topological space?

A second countable topological space is a topological space with a countable basis, meaning that the open sets can be written as a countable union of other open sets. In contrast, a countable but not second countable topological space does not have a countable basis, so the open sets cannot be written as a countable union of other open sets.

3. Can a countable but not second countable topological space be compact?

Yes, a countable but not second countable topological space can be compact. Compactness is a topological property that is independent of the basis or countability of the space. Therefore, a topological space can be both countable but not second countable and compact.

4. What is an example of a countable but not second countable topological space?

An example of a countable but not second countable topological space is the long line, which is a topological space that is formed by connecting infinitely many copies of the real line. The long line has a countably infinite number of open sets, but it does not have a countable basis.

5. What is the significance of studying countable but not second countable topological spaces?

Countable but not second countable topological spaces are important to study because they help to understand the limitations of countable bases in topological spaces. They also have applications in areas such as topology, analysis, and functional analysis. Additionally, studying these spaces can lead to new insights and discoveries in mathematics.

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