Examples where rot F = 0 don't imply conservative field

In summary, the first De Rham cohomology group of \mathbb{R}^2\setminus\{(0,0)\} is \mathbb{R} and every vector field on \mathbb{R}^2\setminus\{(0,0)\} has the form for a real number, \phi.
  • #1
Metaleer
124
0
Hey, all.

Anyway, I've been looking at books and sources online, and the only counterexample to the wrongly stated theorem

[tex]\nabla \times \mathbf{F} = 0 \Leftrightarrow \text{conservative vector field}[/tex]

seems to be [tex]\mathbf{F} = \left(\frac{-y}{x^2+y^2}, \frac{x}{x^2+y^2} \right),[/tex]
or other vector fields based on this one. In one other example, a third component is added, leaving the original two. The reason that the "theorem" is wrongly stated is that it requires the additional hypothesis of the vector field's domain being simply-connected, which it isn't in this case.

Does anyone know any other vector fields where the domain isn't simply-connected, its curl vanishes, and it ends up being not conservative, and isn't based on the counterexample I gave?

Thanks in advance.

PS: To mods, I was in a hurry and the thread's title is wrong, could you please change "don't" to "doesn't"? Thank you. :)
 
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  • #2
Hello Metaleer! :smile:

You won't be finding any other vector field on [itex]\mathbb{R}^2\setminus\{(0,0)\}[/itex] with that property, this can be proven.

Basically, the first De Rham cohomology group of [itex]\mathbb{R}^2\setminus\{(0,0)\}[/itex] is [itex]\mathbb{R}[/itex], which means in les high-brow terms that every vector field on [itex]\mathbb{R}^2\setminus\{(0,0)\}[/itex] has the form

[tex]r\phi+\psi[/tex]

for r a real number, [itex]\phi[/itex] the vector field you describe in your OP and [itex]\psi[/itex] conservative. This means that all counterexamples to your theorem must be based on the vector field [itex]\phi[/itex] in your OP.

Of course, if you check out other domains than [itex]\mathbb{R}^2\setminus\{(0,0)\}[/itex], then you might find more counterexamples, depending on what the first De Rham cohomology group is...

(If you want a good book on the topic, read Differential Forms by Weintraub)
 
  • #3
Hey, micromass.

Thanks a lot for the info, I sort of had a sneaky suspicion this was related to de Rham cohomology. I'll give that book a read, thanks a lot!
 

1. What is a conservative field?

A conservative field is a vector field in which the work done by the field on a particle moving along any closed path is zero. This means that the total amount of energy in the system is conserved and does not change as the particle moves around the path.

2. How is a conservative field related to the concept of potential energy?

A conservative field is closely related to potential energy. In a conservative field, the potential energy of a particle at any point is defined solely by its position in the field. This means that the potential energy is independent of the path taken by the particle and only depends on the starting and ending points of the path.

3. Can a vector field have a zero curl but still not be conservative?

Yes, there are examples where a vector field has a curl of zero but is not conservative. This happens when the field is not defined everywhere in space or when there are singularities in the field. In these cases, the work done by the field on a particle moving along a closed path can still be non-zero, violating the definition of a conservative field.

4. What are some real-world examples of non-conservative fields?

One example of a non-conservative field is a magnetic field. The work done by a magnetic field on a charged particle moving along a closed path is not zero, indicating that the magnetic field is not conservative. Another example is a frictional force, which dissipates energy and is not conservative.

5. Why is it important to distinguish between conservative and non-conservative fields?

Understanding whether a field is conservative or not is important in physics and engineering because it affects the behavior of particles and systems. In a conservative field, the total energy of the system is constant and can be easily calculated using the potential energy function. In a non-conservative field, energy is not conserved, making it more difficult to predict the behavior of particles and systems.

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