How to become filthy rich doing math

[PhDorBust]

I know fundamental research is pure and dignified, but I don't study 10 hours a day just for kicks. To me, happiness in life is twofold. I want something that I can progressively improve in throughout my life (mathematics), but I also want the admiration of total strangers and the ability to pursue whatever may interest me (money).

Is finance the only way to an exceptional salary while still keeping in the math? This is my current plan.

What about operations research? Or games of chance? (Like creating bots to abuse online poker)

I'm a senior right now. I'll be able to get into a top-10 graduate program. Am I right in scorning these technical masters programs (e.g. financial engineering)?

 

[DivisionByZro]

I also want the admiration of total strangers and the ability to pursue whatever may interest me (money).
(e.g. financial engineering)?

What's the point of wanting the admiration of total strangers? Will this make you feel better about yourself? I personally feel good about myself when I am doing something I enjoy, not something others go "Whoooo!" at.

 

[PhDorBust]

I also want the admiration of total strangers and the ability to pursue whatever may interest me (money).
(e.g. financial engineering)?

What are you? A robot?

 

[Pengwuino]

If you really want a lot of money, go into business and investing. Although the real money isn't in figuring out the complex math behind any economic system, it's in actual being part of that economic system.

No one is going to pay you heaps of money to do abstract mathematical theory.

 

[twofish-quant]

I also want the admiration of total strangers and the ability to pursue whatever may interest me (money).

Those are two things are totally different. Right now bankers are not admired in the US.

Also, money is not the only constraint. I have more than enough money to do anything that I want (and I don't want much). What I don't have is time.

Is finance the only way to an exceptional salary while still keeping in the math? This is my current plan.

There are a lot of catches for finance:

1) adjusted for cost of living, the salaries aren't that much better than what you can do being a high end programmer in other fields,
2) you will likely will feel poorer if you go into finance. Human psychology is weird, so if you make 3X as much money, you actually end up feeling worse off if the people around you make 10X,
3) you can get into serious financial trouble, if you make 3x money, and you live as if you are making 10x

Just to give you an idea of how weird this is. If you have US citizenship, you are likely to make more money than 90% of the people on the planet ever will dream of making. But if course, that's not enough...

One thing that you have to understand is that's *never* enough... You have to realize that most of the world considers you filthy rich already. You have clean running water and a good sewage system and that puts you ahead of most of the people on the planet.

I'm a senior right now. I'll be able to get into a top-10 graduate program. Am I right in scorning these technical masters programs (e.g. financial engineering)?

Depends on what you want out of life.

The curious thing about me is that my goal has never been primarily about money. What I've always wanted to do is to be an academic and live the "life of the mind." So when plan A, didn't work, I went for plan B, and then plans C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K etc. etc.

 

[chiro]

I know fundamental research is pure and dignified, but I don't study 10 hours a day just for kicks. To me, happiness in life is twofold. I want something that I can progressively improve in throughout my life (mathematics), but I also want the admiration of total strangers and the ability to pursue whatever may interest me (money).

Is finance the only way to an exceptional salary while still keeping in the math? This is my current plan.

What about operations research? Or games of chance? (Like creating bots to abuse online poker)

I'm a senior right now. I'll be able to get into a top-10 graduate program. Am I right in scorning these technical masters programs (e.g. financial engineering)?

If your an entrepreneurial type, the world can be your oyster.

Some things that come to mind include a guy that developed software that looked for trends in information (think blogs, online news articles and so on). The way he described it is treating information geometrically and using angle as an indicator of how strong a trend is.

I can tell you from experience that software takes a lot of persistence. You really have to sweat it out for a long time before you see everything come together, but then again lots of high paying industries are like this (engineering projects, science projects and so on).

If I were to give my opinion, find a real world problem that people need (or want) solved and something that your passionate about. It might be a simple problem, or it might be hard. You might discover the problem when you least expect it, or you might realize that it is all around you: the world is full of unsolved problems, and therefore full of opportunities. Lots of people are chasing the ways that everyone knows about: why not think about some of the ways that have promise and yet don't have the entire crowd on their backs?

Admiration is hard to come by nowadays. There was a time when doctors were admired, but now everyone feels entitled and expects that they get fixed. GP's aren't seen to be respected. The specialist route is brutal and very selective.

 

[PhDorBust]

Also, money is not the only constraint. I have more than enough money to do anything that I want (and I don't want much). What I don't have is time.

There is money, and then there is "**** you" money. But yes, I don't see a way around that. If you want to do math and analytical work, then you need to work under someone else that will manage the business aspects.

Just to give you an idea of how weird this is. If you have US citizenship, you are likely to make more money than 90% of the people on the planet ever will dream of making. But if course, that's not enough...

One thing that you have to understand is that's *never* enough... You have to realize that most of the world considers you filthy rich already. You have clean running water and a good sewage system and that puts you ahead of most of the people on the planet.

I suppose, if it makes you feel better. But absolute wealth is kind of meaningless. The janitor here may have a better standard of living than the town mayor in africa, but who would you say is wealthier?

The curious thing about me is that my goal has never been primarily about money. What I've always wanted to do is to be an academic and live the "life of the mind." So when plan A, didn't work, I went for plan B, and then plans C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K etc. etc.

Sure, but don't change plans on caprice. The only way to really fail in life is if you constantly switch gears and never become an expert in something. Once you get in the boat, you stay in boat.

Some things that come to mind include a guy that developed software that looked for trends in information (think blogs, online news articles and so on). The way he described it is treating information geometrically and using angle as an indicator of how strong a trend is.

Who and when was this? The term vector model for representing information is pretty dated.

 

[TMFKAN64]

If you want to do math and analytical work, then you need to work under someone else that will manage the business aspects.

You also need to expect that this person will take the lion's share of the profits.

The real money is in business, not math.

 

[splitringtail]

Not sure if it can make you filthy rich, but Actuarial Science is probably on of the most lucrative and secure jobs one with can do with mathematics.

They do a lot of risk modeling for insurance companies and financial firms.

That being said, it is a lot of hard work. They have a series of 10 exams. I do not think all are required, but you need to pass 3 to 4 so many to be a certified actuary. Then the rest of the exams earn you Associate of the Casualty Actuarial Society, then ultimately with Fellowship of the Casualty Actuarial Society certifications. Not sure if they are required, but it does bump up your salary.

You are pretty much talking about a masters level in math plus a little more. I have heard of Fellows of CAS being compared to PhDs, but I think it is a little inaccurate. They probably say that because it takes a around 10 years to pass all exams and most likely most fellows are probably Phds in math or statistics.

You can never know too much math.

 

[dsanz]

Just a couple of thoughts:
Do what you love, not what will give you money.
- The number 1 resent of old people is that they didn't do what they wanted in their lives, and rather did what they thought was EXPECTED from them, which a lot of times means doing what gets you money.
- You will probably invest over a third of your life on your work, so you'd better enjoy it. Otherwise, you will really live miserably.
- If this is not enough, talk to people. I have heard it from friends, family, etc... that choosing your job for money alone is a HUGE mistake.

That being said, I know you want both money and doing what you love, which presumably is math. Well that sounds really nice. But, if you reaaallly want both, I think you will have to compromise at some point. You won't do the more abstract math you might love, because those jobs simply don't pay as much. So I guess what I'm saying is be very careful with how much you compromise... how much you enjoy your job is light years more important than how much you make.

 

[hadsed]

Sure, but don't change plans on caprice. The only way to really fail in life is if you constantly switch gears and never become an expert in something. Once you get in the boat, you stay in boat.

I would say that learning only one thing, even better than anyone else has ever done, is a good way to 'fail' at life. You can really miss out on all the other interesting things in life if you only focus on one thing.

Obviously 'failing at life' is a subjective idea. Personally, I think not changing boats is boring.

 

[twofish-quant]

You also need to expect that this person will take the lion's share of the profits.

True, but if the $$$$$ are high enough, I don't mind getting the table scraps.

 

[chiro]

There is money, and then there is "**** you" money. But Who and when was this? The term vector model for representing information is pretty dated.

This is the article I read a while ago:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_04/b3968001.htm

Seriously though, like I said there are plenty of open problems out there that when solved, make people's lives easier or more enjoyable.

 

[twofish-quant]

Just a couple of thoughts: Do what you love, not what will give you money.

It's really rather complicated. One problem is that doing what you love often involves spending money. Another problem is that it's not either/or. I'd accept a massive salary cut to do astrophysics, but I wouldn't starve or live in a cardboard box to do it.

The number 1 resent of old people is that they didn't do what they wanted in their lives, and rather did what they thought was EXPECTED from them, which a lot of times means doing what gets you money.

It really depends on the old person that you talk to. With one exception, the old people that I know don't have that particular resentment. The older people that are important in my life are either teachers or family people, and as long as the grandkids turned out alright, they did what they wanted to do.

One thing that is interesting is that a lot of the older males in my social circle basically spent their lives in the office making money for the kids, and none of them have any particular regrets in doing things that way. The women tended either to be housewives or took jobs like nurses and elementary school teachers, and they don't seem to have many regrets about career.

The other thing is that family expectations are different from family to family. In my family, I was expected to get a Ph.D. Now once I got the Ph.D., then that was it. Declare victory and do something else.

- You will probably invest over a third of your life on your work, so you'd better enjoy it. Otherwise, you will really live miserably.

Then again, it's called work. If it was "not work" then people wouldn't have to pay people to do it. Again there are trade-offs here.

- If this is not enough, talk to people. I have heard it from friends, family, etc... that choosing your job for money alone is a HUGE mistake.

Not so simple.

One thing about money is that it's never just about money. Money means different things to different people. For me, it's security. If your country falls apart, and you have gold coins somewhere, you can buy your way out. Also this is why education is important. They can point a gun at you and make you give up your coins, but short of shooting you (which can happen), they can't make you give up your education, and part of being smart is to figure out when to act stupid when the people with guns come out, and if you get shot, then you can make sure that someone gets out.

This might seem extreme, but it's part of my background and it's also part of the background of a lot of people that have studied physics.

One other problem is the "show me the money" problem. Doing something for cash isn't necessarily a bad thing, but a surprisingly large number of people are willing to do something for the *promise* of cash. It stinks if that cash never arrives.

how much you enjoy your job is light years more important than how much you make.

The older people that I know would find this conversation weird. They were so concerned about simple physical survival (i.e. how not to get shot by the Japanese, the warlords, and/or either side of the Chinese civil war and how not to literally starve to death) that the fact that we are talking about love versus money is odd to them.

But that's what they were fighting for so the fact that the grandkids even have a choice is maybe why they didn't seem to have regrets.

 

[osnarf]

Go and get yourself a Nobel Prize. Simple enough :)

 

[FredericGos]

Easy. Just solve the P versus NP problem, start a company that harnesses what you found and you will get really really rich real fast.

 

[TMFKAN64]

Easy. Just solve the P versus NP problem, start a company that harnesses what you found and you will get really really rich real fast.

Only if you manage to show that the two classes are equal. There is no money in knowing that they are different...

 

[osnarf]

Only if you manage to show that the two classes are equal. There is no money in knowing that they are different...

Isn't there a million dollar prize for showing it one way or the other?

 

[Ryker]

Isn't there a million dollar prize for showing it one way or the other?

Yeah, but the OP wants to get filthy rich.