LHC, Mass, Higgs, Relativity

In summary, the conversation discusses the relationship between matter, mass, and the Higgs boson. The Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction equation is brought up as a way to calculate an increase in inertial mass without the need for the Higgs field. However, it is pointed out that this equation does not account for the mechanism of spontaneous gauge symmetry breaking, which is critical for our current understanding of gravity. The possibility of other theories of mass and gravity arising if the Higgs mechanism is disproven is also mentioned. Ultimately, the conversation concludes that the Higgs boson is not related to gravity and is only introduced to solve the problem of incompatible symmetries in the electromagnetic and weak forces.
  • #1
Boeley
9
0
sqrt(1-v2/c2)

About matter and mass... I've been thinking that if the Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction equation can accurately calculate an increase in inertial mass (without anything representing the Higgs Field), is there any need for the Higgs Boson?

Doesn't the LF equation imply that mass (inertial mass in this case) is a result of the occupation of spacetime (v) divided by the potential max (c)?
 
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  • #2
Boeley said:
sqrt(1-v2/c2)

About matter and mass... I've been thinking that if the Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction equation can accurately calculate an increase in inertial mass (without anything representing the Higgs Field), is there any need for the Higgs Boson?

Doesn't the LF equation imply that mass (inertial mass in this case) is a result of the occupation of spacetime (v) divided by the potential max (c)?

That would be a difference between calculating a sum, and deriving the scalar itself. Your last question is actually a REALLY good one you know; in fact, NO! There is no need for a Higgs boson, if the Higgs MECHANISM is real. The predicted particle is important, the mechanism of Spontaneous Gague symmetry breaking is CRITICAL to the current understanding of gravity in SQM.

IF no Higgs particle is found, and the mechanism is disproven then other theories of mass and gravity which do NOT rely on the Higgs Mechanism will come to the fore. That's science for yah! :smile:
 
  • #3
This is all so far beyond me...

My understanding of Relativity is based on the structure of spacetime causing mass / gravity. So, at least from my perspective the two are incompatible. Admittedly, my knowledge of Higgs/QM is lacking, so I can't say for certain.

If the LF equation calculates an increase in mass when increasing the amount of spacetime matter occupies when it's accelerated, it implies that matter simply occupying spacetime in the first place gives it its mass.
 
  • #4
Boeley said:
This is all so far beyond me...

My understanding of Relativity is based on the structure of spacetime causing mass / gravity. So, at least from my perspective the two are incompatible. Admittedly, my knowledge of Higgs/QM is lacking, so I can't say for certain.

If the LF equation calculates an increase in mass when increasing the amount of spacetime matter occupies when it's accelerated, it implies that matter simply occupying spacetime in the first place gives it its mass.

You're being too hard on yourself; they ARE incompatible in their current form. The two different proposed mechanisms, the 'trouble' with gravity, is why a theory of quantum gravity is so critical to giving you an answer to your question that is reflected in nature.
 
  • #5
Boeley said:
sqrt(1-v2/c2)

About matter and mass... I've been thinking that if the Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction equation can accurately calculate an increase in inertial mass (without anything representing the Higgs Field), is there any need for the Higgs Boson?

Doesn't the LF equation imply that mass (inertial mass in this case) is a result of the occupation of spacetime (v) divided by the potential max (c)?

I have to say, that this is not even wrong. The Higgs boson is conjectured to be the mechanism that gives mass to gauge bosons in the early universe. It occurs in quantum theory and has no relation to the 'relativistic' mass, a concept of doubtful usefulness. There is no increase in inertial rest mass, it is an observer dependent effect.
 
  • #6
Mentz114 said:
I have to say, that this is not even wrong. The Higgs boson is conjectured to be the mechanism that gives mass to gauge bosons in the early universe. It occurs in quantum theory and has no relation to the 'relativistic' mass, a concept of doubtful usefulness. There is no increase in inertial rest mass, it is an observer dependent effect.

Hmmm... so much for this being over his head. :wink: . I think confidence is all that's lacking.
 
  • #7
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  • #8
The Higgs boson has nothing to do with gravity. It's introduced to solve the problem that the symmetries underlying the electromagnetic and weak forces are incompatible with any known fundamental particle having mass. The Higgs field (of which the Higgs boson is 1 of 4 components) is introduced to break those symmetries, giving the other particles mass in the process.
 

What is the LHC?

The LHC (Large Hadron Collider) is a particle accelerator located at CERN (European Organization for Nuclear Research) in Switzerland. It is the largest and most powerful particle accelerator in the world, designed to collide subatomic particles at high energies in order to study the fundamental structure of matter.

What is mass?

Mass is a measure of an object's resistance to acceleration. It is a fundamental property of matter and is often measured in units of kilograms (kg). In physics, mass is closely related to the concept of inertia, or an object's resistance to changes in motion.

What is the Higgs boson?

The Higgs boson is a subatomic particle predicted by the Standard Model of particle physics. It is responsible for giving other particles their mass through the Higgs mechanism. Its existence was confirmed by experiments at the LHC in 2012.

What is relativity?

Relativity is a theory proposed by Albert Einstein in 1905, which describes the relationship between space and time. It includes two main theories: special relativity, which deals with objects moving at constant speeds, and general relativity, which deals with gravity and the curvature of spacetime.

How do mass and relativity relate to each other?

Einstein's theory of relativity explains that mass and energy are interchangeable, as expressed in the famous equation E=mc². This means that as an object's speed approaches the speed of light, its mass increases and time slows down, which is known as time dilation. This has been confirmed by experiments at the LHC and other particle accelerators.

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