Men, why are they so complicated?

  • Thread starter mcknia07
  • Start date
In summary: Women are not complicated either. Both genders are straightforward in their communication. If you care for the person, do not get creative. Just observe the common sense tactical rules and things will be OK.
  • #1
mcknia07
284
8
I used to date this awesome guy and we broke things off for different reasons. I still really care for him and "love" him. Last night we talked a little about our feelings, and now we both know the feelings are mutual on both parties. We think about each other a lot and never have lost the feelings, but not sure if it would be wise to start dating again. Should we just be friends and try to put our feelings aside? Or just start off as friends and let the relationship grow? I'm lost on all of this...
 
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  • #2
The reasons why you broke it off - are they still an issue? Are they truly insurmountable?
 
  • #3
They are no longer an issue. Well, one is a semi issue still, but it's on my part and I can look over it. The others are not an issue at all. I know if we do end up dating again, it's a possibility that there would be a marriage.. His family loves me and I love them. At one point there was talk of kids between the two of us too, but not for a long time. I don't need a kid at my age, lol, but I do love children.
 
  • #4
Then it seems there would be no barriers to re-starting the relationship, if those issues have been resolved.

Yeah kids are great, but they can wait!
 
  • #5
To be clear--just from the little you've said--I think it is worth pursuing. You don't have to move quickly--it doesn't require that--just go whatever speed comes naturally.

I'm honestly happy for you both. It is good to make peace; especially this way.
 
  • #6
Thanks, yeah I don't want to move fast. We both have some growing and learning to do. Slow and steady wins the race. I'm just surprised that the feeling are both there on both ends. It makes me so happy to know we could have something again, but also scares me
 
  • #7
mcknia07 said:
I used to date this awesome guy and we broke things off for different reasons. I still really care for him and "love" him. Last night we talked a little about our feelings, and now we both know the feelings are mutual on both parties. We think about each other a lot and never have lost the feelings, but not sure if it would be wise to start dating again. Should we just be friends and try to put our feelings aside? Or just start off as friends and let the relationship grow? I'm lost on all of this...

Intimate relationships are all about delivery. Can he deliver what you need ? Can you deliver what he needs ? "Love" is not enough. Besides, the fact that you use love in quotes and used the term "care for him" worries me. The choice of words makes it sound (ofc I could be wrong) like you have empathy for him, but not passion. If this is true, if all is left of your feelings is empathy and not passion and desire, let it die. You both will be unhappy IMO. Empathy is no substitute for desire and passion. Besides, going back to someone after a break-up is a mistake IMO. I most cases, the relationship will end up again in the same place as the first time. Pinned against the same anvil and hammered with the same issues. I know of very few , and I mean very few, cases in which this did not hold true.

And no men are not complicated. Most of us are very simple, remarkably unsophisticated creatures (when it comes to close relationships). Its just humans never listen to each other too much when they should. And this complicates things.
 
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  • #8
Just to be clear.
lifeexplained.jpg

Men are not complicated.
 
  • #9
Actually, I don't consider women very complicated either. It's not that hard to make a woman happy should you desire to. But there are marked differences in behavior of men and women and this sometimes obfuscates communication and delivery of expectancies. Much as direct aggression is the prerogative of men, and indirect aggression is mostly found in females and feminine man, IMO a similar phenomena can be seen in communication. Men either speak either choose not to. Women sometimes use indirect forms of communication, sometimes pretty subtle, to deliver their position on something or their expectancies. Sometimes this can leave a man dumb-folded, but it is rather a process failure than a intrinsic esoteric complexity in women.

When in doubt, if you care, do not get "creative". Observe the common sense tactical rules, and things will be OK. Failproof on basics gets you far. There are times for "creativity", but certainly not when you have no idea how the other person moved her pieces.

xxChrisxx said:
Just to be clear.
lifeexplained.jpg

Men are not complicated.
 
  • #10
what is this? why are you even asking about this? the answer is obvious, go 4 it lol
 
  • #11
Nikitin said:
what is this? why are you even asking about this? the answer is obvious, go 4 it lol

Why should she, after all, when she harbors so much doubt that she needs to ask others ? We can tell her our opinions on relations, but we shouldn't tell her to do it or not. This is for her to decide, not for some unknowns on internet. She needs to take her own decisions and face their consequences. We can only share a part of our experiences and what we consider OK or not, but we shouldn't stray her
 
  • #12
my point was, that there obviously should be no reason 2 harbour any doubt in a case like this..
 
  • #13
Nikitin said:
my point was, that there obviously should be no reason 2 harbour any doubt in a case like this..

And why would be that, in your opinion ?
 
  • #14
From the way she described it, it is obvious that the doubt is just silly insecurity. There is no logical reason why she wouldn't try to get back together with him. I was merely pointing this out.
 
  • #15
Nikitin said:
From the way she described it, it is obvious that the doubt is just silly insecurity. There is no logical reason why she wouldn't try to get back together with him. I was merely pointing this out.

Her description betrays doubt. You can't infer whatever this doubt is "silly insecurity" or much more than that. Three of the basic principles that you should observe in human relations are that:
a). social context is paramount
b) More often than not we do not know why other people do what they do
c) Often you do not know what you do not know. You think that you may infer it, but you lack data, and much of your heuristic processes are automatic and biased.

This is the case with you right now. When I asked "why" you was unable to explain the logic of your affirmation, you simply reiterated that "there is no logical reason". You try to pass your heuristics as logic. When there is no trace of logic in what you said.
 
  • #16
I have no idea what you are babbling about. I cannot read her body language or analyse her social situation but that is utterly irrelevant.

I'm not assuming anything, I am merely giving as good advice as I can based on the information I have received. The advice being that, assuming her information is reliable, there is no logical reason for her not to get back 2gether with him.
 
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  • #17
Nikitin said:
I'm not assuming anything, I am merely giving as good advice as I can based on the information I have received.

Ill make it simple . The bottom line for you to understand is that you cannot infer from what she said that her doubts are "silly insecurity" or not. And the second thing you must understand is that with the data she provided it's pretty much impossible to say "go to him, or stay away from him". YOu can provide your views on generic similar situations, and that's kinda all you can do with the data offered.

You are not giving as good advice as you can, you claim "the answer is obvious, go 4 it lol ", and when asked to motivate your answer , you simply fail to give any reasonable answer on what is so obvious and as logic as you claim. You know why this happens, because your answer is neither logical, neither the situation as obvious as you claim. In fact, what you said is as useful as throwing a coin in the air, bet on heads or tails
 
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  • #18
Mate, no offence but you are blabbering. Why are you babbling about me not knowing her personally? Why does it matter? It is obvious to any1 that I was giving a response based on the info available, hell that's what every1 were doing.

I tell you this 4 the last time. OK?
 
  • #19
Nikitin said:
Mate, no offence but you are blabbering. Why are you babbling about me not knowing her personally?
Why does it matter? It is obvious to any1 that I was giving a response based on the info available, hell that's what every1 were doing.

I tell you this 4 the last time. OK?

You again fail to see the issue. It is not that you know her that not. It is, that you claim that based on the she data presented that:

a) it is obvious that all she has is "silly insecurity"
b) that logic dictates they should get back together based on the same data

and that

c) when asked the simplest question of them all, to argument your "logic" answer you failed time and again to do so. Perhaps you also want to explain me how is so obviously all she has is an obvious silly insecurity and how you did logically inferred it.
Please be my guest. Perhaps you are some kind of medium and entered a trance ? If it's so, do tell me, the answer is as good as any you gave so far :P

Now, do you want to state fallacies for the 5th time, or provide a form of argumentation, no matter how poor, to your claim she is "obviously suffering from silly insecurities". Try. Thinking won't hurt.
 
  • #20
OK I am giving up. Are you seriously failing 2 comprehend the issue? The issue is, that based on the data there is absolutely NO reason 4 not going back 2 him, except, obviously, the (baseless) insecurity and fear of starting another relationship with him after the previous failed due to reasons that are no longer relevant. She provided no negative feature of him what-so-ever.

Why is this so hard to understand for you, DanP? This isn't exactly rocket-science ;)
 
  • #21
Nikitin said:
obviously, the (baseless) insecurity and fear of starting another relationship with him after the previous failed due to reasons that are no longer relevant. She provided no negative feature of him what-so-ever.

Please imagine that I talk to you very slowly.

How did you determined - logically- as you claimed you did, that her doubt is nothing but "obvious , (baseless) insecurity? Her post does not contains enough information for you to make this claim. Her doubt may be a very real concern that the relation will go again south. Or may be as you say is just insecurity. Or whatever else. It is simply unspecified.

So what did the trick for you and told you that her doubt is baseless? Voodoo ? Shamanism ? A seance with some spirits ? Rubbing a dead frog's feet ?
 
  • #22
Wow guys, it was a simple question. No heated debate needed. Calm down!

I'll answer my own question... Friendship=good answer
 
  • #23
Ive never understood this 'lets just be friends' business after a breakup. When a man and woman are 'friends' its simply because one of them doesn't want to have sex with the other, and its too awkward for true friendship.
 
  • #24
Crap did I miss a good argument??

LOUD NOISES
 
  • #25
Men, why are they so complicated?

mcknia07 said:
I used to date this awesome guy and we broke things off for different reasons. I still really care for him and "love" him. Last night we talked a little about our feelings, and now we both know the feelings are mutual on both parties. We think about each other a lot and never have lost the feelings, but not sure if it would be wise to start dating again. Should we just be friends and try to put our feelings aside? Or just start off as friends and let the relationship grow? I'm lost on all of this...

Why women has to be this complicated ... :blushing:
 
  • #26
Frankly said:
Ive never understood this 'lets just be friends' business after a breakup. When a man and woman are 'friends' its simply because one of them doesn't want to have sex with the other, and its too awkward for true friendship.

Nonsense. The other side just has to learn to get over it. Then again, if you build your relationship solely on sex, then yah that's going to happen.
 
  • #27
Nikitin said:
OK I am giving up. Are you seriously failing 2 comprehend the issue? The issue is, that based on the data there is absolutely NO reason 4 not going back 2 him, except, obviously, the (baseless) insecurity and fear of starting another relationship with him after the previous failed due to reasons that are no longer relevant. She provided no negative feature of him what-so-ever.

Why is this so hard to understand for you, DanP? This isn't exactly rocket-science ;)



Point of order: Nikitin, shorthand messaging text is against the rules here - rules you read when you signed up. Please show attention to spelling and punctuation.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=414380
In the interest of conveying ideas as clearly as possible, posts are required to show reasonable attention to written English communication standards. This includes the use of proper grammatical structure, punctuation, capitalization, and spelling. SMS messaging shorthand, such as using "u" for "you", is not acceptable.
 
  • #28
Pengwuino said:
Nonsense. The other side just has to learn to get over it. Then again, if you build your relationship solely on sex, then yah that's going to happen.

Ive been on both sides of the 'lets be friends' and in my experience it just doesn't translate into a true, long lasting friendship. Maybe I'm overly strict in my definition of friendship.
 
  • #29
DanP said:
Please imagine that I talk to you very slowly.

How did you determined - logically- as you claimed you did, that her doubt is nothing but "obvious , (baseless) insecurity? Her post does not contains enough information for you to make this claim. Her doubt may be a very real concern that the relation will go again south. Or may be as you say is just insecurity. Or whatever else. It is simply unspecified.

So what did the trick for you and told you that her doubt is baseless? Voodoo ? Shamanism ? A seance with some spirits ? Rubbing a dead frog's feet ?

Hey, I usually don't talk like an *******, but seriously dude;

How about you set your brain into gear? I have told you repeatedly, 5 times actually, that I, like EVERYONE ELSE, based my freaking comments on the information that was provided. Do you understand this? YES; based on the info she had provided I could draw my obvious conclusions.

Using your, quite primitive and unimaginative, "logic" we must assume that I could NEVER know if somebody IRL (even if I knew the person very well) was insecure or what was an obvious choice because as you said I'm not a freaking mind-reader and thus I cannot draw perfect conclusions, as I don't have ALL of the data available - even if the person says everything he/she wants me to know.
 
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  • #30
Feel the rage.
 
  • #31
I think this is a good time to have this one locked. Please!
 

1. Why do men seem to have trouble expressing their emotions?

There are a variety of reasons why men may struggle with expressing their emotions. Some men may have been socialized to believe that showing emotions is a sign of weakness, while others may fear being judged or rejected for being vulnerable. Additionally, societal expectations of masculinity often discourage men from displaying emotions other than anger or aggression.

2. Why do men have a hard time communicating?

Communication styles can vary greatly between individuals, regardless of gender. However, some men may struggle with communication due to societal expectations of being stoic and self-sufficient. Men may also have different communication styles and may not always understand or pick up on nonverbal cues as easily as women do.

3. Why do men sometimes seem to have a fear of commitment?

Commitment can be a scary thing for anyone, regardless of gender. However, some men may have a fear of commitment due to past experiences, societal pressures, or personal insecurities. It is important to communicate openly and honestly with your partner about your feelings and expectations in a relationship.

4. Why do men often have a hard time asking for help?

Similar to the fear of expressing emotions, men may feel pressure to be self-sufficient and not show vulnerability by asking for help. This can also be tied to societal expectations of masculinity and the fear of being perceived as weak. It is important for men to recognize that asking for help is a sign of strength, not weakness.

5. Why are men so competitive?

Again, this can vary greatly between individuals, but some men may feel societal pressure to prove their masculinity by being competitive and dominant. This can also be tied to traditional gender roles and expectations. However, not all men are competitive and it is important not to generalize or stereotype all men as being competitive.

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