- #1
Tungamirai
- 13
- 0
Do other animals besides humans commit suicide and what is the evolutionary benefit(s) for a species that has members that commit suicide, basically what advantages does a suicidal species have over one that is not
Pythagorean said:evolutionary benefit isn't always necessary to explain the existence of traits. I don't know the case for suicide, but I would start with the question "is there an evolutionary benefit?"This article has a couple examples of animal suicide:
http://news.discovery.com/animals/animal-suicide-behavior.html
mishrashubham said:I must confess that I am an adaptationist. I strongly believe that any trait, behavourial or otherwise, if exists stably, then it is at the very least not detrimental to the reproductive success of the organism.
It often happens, that certain evolutionary beneficial traits bring with them other harmful traits, that could be thought of as "side effects". That is to say, the genotype results in multiple phenotypes, some of them being harmful and others beneficial. However the loss in fitness is more than compensated for by the benefit.
ryan_m_b said:Agreed, mapping the phenome as it relates to human behaviour is a nightmare. Simplistically I see the issue of suicide this way; we have the capability to greatly model the world around us and to feel strong emotions. These are obviously helpful to our reproductive fitness but occasionally it get's to a situation where we are in a state of very negative emotion and all of our models point to the situation either not getting better or getting worse with suicide being the only way to stop feeling. Evolution is a blind watchmaker, getting rid of suicide may be possible but may not happen because it would involve a drastic alteration to our intelligence and emotional capability.
This is of course an over simplification but I think it get's my point across.
gkangelexa said:...and animals go by instinct, which this is not.
mishrashubham said:I must confess that I am an adaptationist. I strongly believe that any trait, behavourial or otherwise, if exists stably, then it is at the very least not detrimental to the reproductive success of the organism.
It often happens, that certain evolutionary beneficial traits bring with them other harmful traits, that could be thought of as "side effects".
Pythagorean said:I don't disagree with the what you've said here, but I didn't think it was a question.
Pythagorean said:It is not even necessary that they be harmful, just that they didn't come about because of selection. The biology community refers to them as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spandrel_(biology)" which is what I had in mind when I said that not all traits require evolutionary benefit to exist.
Tungamirai said:Do other animals besides humans commit suicide and what is the evolutionary benefit(s) for a species that has members that commit suicide, basically what advantages does a suicidal species have over one that is not
girlgeek said:I'm surprised that no one has mentioned lemmings. According to mythology they all run into the sea and commit suicide.
According to wikipedia
"Actually, it is not a mass suicide but the result of their migratory behavior. Driven by strong biological urges, some species of lemmings may migrate in large groups when population density becomes too great. Lemmings can swim and may choose to cross a body of water in search of a new habitat. In such cases, many may drown if the body of water is so wide as to stretch their physical capability to the limit. "
girlgeek said:I'm surprised that they haven't evolved into a creature with enough sense to avoid throwing themselves into bodies of water too big to swim across.
ryan_m_b said:Clearly the migration behaviour is advantageous to the species as a whole, remember that evolution is a blind watchmaker. To evolve a means of ascertaining risk at the level you're talking about as well as keeping the advantages of their behaviour is a tall order.
arildno said:My view is:
Evolutionary theory can legitimately be challenged to provide answers to those traits that are HIGHLY frequent/universal, but there are no reason whatsoever why weird&infrequent behaviour in any way ought to be explained by it.
Just my two cents..
Constantinos said:I thought bees were suicidal. When trying to defend their hive from animals, they sting the animals and detach the stinger, which leads to their death. Isn't this true?
Ken Natton said:No, not really. All hymenoptera have this behaviour which is what biologists mean when they use the term ‘altruism’. The bees sacrifice themselves for the greater good of the hive, and it is a behaviour that does make sense in purely Darwinian evolutionary terms, on the basis of the long term benefits of the individual bee’s genes. There are much deeper subtleties to this, the preceding is really a hopeless over simplification of the point, but for the current discussion, the point is that this is not, by any stretch of the imagination, suicide. The bees are simply engaging in a genetically programmed behaviour. They are not contemplating their own mortality and making a conscious decision to end their own life.
The connection between suicide and evolution in animals is that some species have evolved mechanisms for self-sacrifice in order to benefit their offspring or group. This behavior is thought to increase the overall fitness of the species by preserving valuable resources and promoting the survival of genetically related individuals.
Suicide in animals can benefit the species in several ways. It can help prevent the spread of disease, protect valuable resources, and promote the survival of genetically related individuals. It can also increase the overall fitness of the species by reducing competition for resources and promoting altruistic behavior.
Some examples of animals that exhibit suicidal behavior include honeybees, who will sting an intruder and die in the process, sacrificing themselves to protect the hive. Lemmings are also known for their mass suicidal behavior when their population becomes too large, resulting in a dramatic decrease in numbers. Certain species of ants, termites, and fish also display suicidal behavior for the benefit of their colony or group.
While suicidal behavior can have benefits for the species as a whole, there are also potential downsides. For example, if too many individuals within a group sacrifice themselves, it can lead to a decrease in genetic diversity and weaken the overall fitness of the species. Additionally, some animals may be more vulnerable to predators if they engage in suicidal behavior, ultimately reducing their own chances of survival.
Yes, there is evidence to support the idea of evolution of suicidal behavior in animals. Studies have shown that certain species have evolved mechanisms for self-sacrifice that benefit their group or offspring. Additionally, the presence of suicidal behavior in multiple species suggests that it has evolved independently in different lineages, further supporting the idea of its evolutionary significance.