The fine line between marriage and divorce

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In summary: sorry to hear it didn't work out, it takes more guts to admit it's not working than to suffer through it.
  • #1
rhody
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I found http://www.huffingtonpost.com/iris-krasnow/the-fine-line-between-mar_b_959372.html" [Broken] was interesting, she packs a number of assertions in her article, enough for a fair discussion. I normally don't post here, but I thought it would be good for members for confirm or refute her findings based on:
I'm just coming off 200 interviews and two years of listening to mature wives reflect on -- or moan about -- how they are managing to stick it out in long marriages. Scenes from their relationships that range from 15 to 70 years are woven together in my new book, The Secret Lives of Wives: Women Share What It Really Takes To Stay Married coming out in early October.

Rhody...
 
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  • #2
I decided that I'd rather be alone than in an unhappy marriage.
 
  • #3
It stands to reason that people think about divorce more than they actually engage in it. Now we have anecdotal evidence as well, 200 cases of it. The centrifugal forces are tremendous in any group of people living together and one example of people living together is a married couple. About the only centripetal force in that case is the expense and bother of a divorce. In the US, half of marriages end in divorce. I wonder what percentage of non-marriage setups break apart. I mean shacking up, or communes, or apartment sharing, etc. What are the average lengths of these relationships?
 
  • #4
Marriage isn't just about being in love. It is also a partnership and a life you build together.

My chapter called Separate Summers is filled with women who take their own vacations, take their own summers, take charge of their own lives. Couples who allow each other to grow separately are the ones with the best chance of growing together and staying together.

That's why my office and man cave is 400 feet from the house. :biggrin:
 
  • #5
This is controversial from the article:
My biggest shock is how many outwardly cheerful women who have been married forever think about divorce if not weekly, at least once a month.
Do any of you think this way ? To be fair, let's apply it to men too, and for young people, would you say your parent's contemplate divorce ?

Rhody...
 
  • #6
I consider divorce constantly, and I'm not even married.
 
  • #7
FlexGunship said:
I consider divorce constantly, and I'm not even married.
Flex,

Understand, I was hoping to generate some funny stories, with names changed to protect the innocent or guilty, please feel free to add some that may entertain us.

Rhody...
 
  • #8
One last gasp to keep this thread alive... from the article...

I can't use my "I hope this thread dies trick" more than once, now, can I o:) :biggrin: ?
The biggest shocker is the number of wives in stable unions who frequently contemplate fleeing their marriages. These are not abused wives; they are women with nice husbands who give them orgasms and jewelry and stability.
and
Maybe they were simply sick of being around each other. And maybe one or both of them finally couldn't take it any more.
and
Finally, the wives with the highest marital satisfaction have a tight circle of wild women friends with whom to drink, travel and vent about their husbands.
For men, the same thought applies, substitute fishing rods for jewelry... and male friends...

Rhody...
 
  • #9
Blub, blub, blub... time for this thread to meet it's maker, since there are no takers, at least I ended it with a rhyme...

Rhody...
 
  • #10
rhody said:
blub, blub, blub... Time for this thread to meet it's maker, since there are no takers, at least i ended it with a rhyme...

Rhody...

c-c-c-c-c-combo breaker!
 
  • #11
Evo, I agree with you. I'd rather be alone than in an unhappy marriage. I have been married for 5 years and just not willing to compromise my happiness anymore. I filed for divorce and am moving out immediately. The movers are coming this weekend. We both need space from each other.
 
  • #12
SNRote said:
Evo, I agree with you. I'd rather be alone than in an unhappy marriage. I have been married for 5 years and just not willing to compromise my happiness anymore. I filed for divorce and am moving out immediately. The movers are coming this weekend. We both need space from each other.
Sorry to hear it didn't work out, it takes more guts to admit it's not working than to suffer through it.

Hope things work out for you and that you find happiness again. At least you given yourself and your spouse the chance to start over. Kudos to you.
 
  • #13
@Rhody: I think both my parents secretly do. I've observed that they are still together simply because it's "convenient" and not because they particular want to. They're fairly old, have grown used to each other's little habits, the children (who are adults now. lol?) and I suppose it's also because it's safe. I might be wrong but hey, I've been living them for the past eighteen years. :)
One should also note that it was an arranged marriage. I'm not too familiar with their socio-historic context but my understanding is that this was the norm here up until recently.

In my experience, relationships need to have a lot of effort put into them and largely because of that, they don't last as long as the parties concerned would like them to. What happens is that they slowly rot, sometimes the mess is cleaned and eventually, those involved move on to new relationships. After a while, that "spark" that was once there is lost and what used to be exciting gets very monotonous.

With living being already monotonous as it is, I don't think it's fair that people should willingly put themselves through such things and I find that moving on to other relationships is for the better, in the grand scheme of things.

This is something that I've been observing with my friends as of late and I strongly suspect that within the next few months, they will move on.
 
  • #14
rhody said:
One last gasp to keep this thread alive... from the article...

I can't use my "I hope this thread dies trick" more than once, now, can I o:) :biggrin: ?

and

and

For men, the same thought applies, substitute fishing rods for jewelry... and male friends...

Rhody...


Interesting but the way I see it, you can't really manipulate marriage in a lab like some typical science experiment. There are several factors that come into play when it comes to marriage. So those statements about the group of women don't necessarily apply to everybody and every marriage.

What I derived from those specific quotes above is that, even when you're married, each person needs their individual space
 
  • #15
Mépris said:
@Rhody: I think both my parents secretly do. I've observed that they are still together simply because it's "convenient" and not because they particular want to. They're fairly old, have grown used to each other's little habits, the children (who are adults now. lol?) and I suppose it's also because it's safe. I might be wrong but hey, I've been living them for the past eighteen years. :)
One should also note that it was an arranged marriage.
I'm not too familiar with their socio-historic context but my understanding is that this was the norm here up until recently.

In my experience, relationships need to have a lot of effort put into them and largely because of that, they don't last as long as the parties concerned would like them to. What happens is that they slowly rot, sometimes the mess is cleaned and eventually, those involved move on to new relationships. After a while, that "spark" that was once there is lost and what used to be exciting gets very monotonous.

With living being already monotonous as it is, I don't think it's fair that people should willingly put themselves through such things and I find that moving on to other relationships is for the better, in the grand scheme of things.

This is something that I've been observing with my friends as of late and I strongly suspect that within the next few months, they will move on.

[1] well you don't really know like you pointed out in the ending of that paragraph. you could be wrong. when their alone you don't know what they do / say so your observations are not enough to come to such a conclusion.

[2] Not just effort but equal effort from both sides which ultimately boils down to the two people wanting the same thing out of the relationship. sometimes they are on different pages in-terms of what they want out of the relationship and that determines the amount of effort that's put in. relationships that are based primarily on sexual desire, appeal in beauty tend to lose "spark". because what happens if someone comes by who is better looking? what happens when you get tired of the sex? people who see more in their spouse other than beauty and sex tend to last longer. beauty fades.

[3] how is it not fair? they're not being forced and are doing it out of will. that right there cancels unfairness out of the equation. if people understand the commitment that was required in marriage, then they would make wise, hard though decisions about who they are marrying before they say, "I do". consider the vows that are exchanged between two married people and what those vows really mean.

problem is, since a tender age the idea that if "I date this guy/girl and I get bored then I'll just break up and go for the next thing on the block" has been engraved into the minds of teens so that mindset gets taken into the marriage.
 
  • #16
My parents watch TV and travel to work together. When they're not doing that, they're sleeping or working. Neither of which are activities they engage in with the other. ;)

Sure, it does fade - I never implied otherwise, iirc. How 'bout this one: people change.

I don't think it's fair on both parties if they force themselves to make something work. As you said, people won't necessarily stay in phase forever.

Too much of a generalisation. Think about what you said. Think there might be some deeper issues in there. Had a bad high school experience, perhaps? :rofl:

Anyway, I don't necessarily think that what you say is true. Perhaps it's a phenomenon that you seem to see in people you know/talk to. While I don't like the idea of being married at all, maybe when it comes to it, I might change my mind. I personally don't see what a marriage can do for one that a monogamous domestic partnership can't.
 
  • #17
Can't live with 'em. Can't live without 'em!

I reckon the optimum number of married partners to have is around 0.3, but unfortunately they only come in integer values. Thinking about divorce every so often is therefore an attempt at 'PWM'-ing the on-or-off status of marriage to the preferred value. It's why many re-marry after divorce.

The most successful, divorce-free marriages I have seen are where;
a) one partner fully, and genuinely, hands over responsibility for the married life, has no ambitions other that to perform their task [whether employed or housekeeping] and will defer on all decisions to the other partner,
b) both are happy to go off to do 'their own thing' and live their own lives for >50% of the time,
c) argue like cat-and-dog (let's off steam) but forget immediately what they were arguing about.

The bad marriages typically occur where;
a) one is, or both are, totally infatuated with the other at the outset, because this never lasts and new ambitions (work/love-life) evolve
b) one feels ignored when the other explores their own pursuits,
c) argue like cat-and-dog and have long memories of what they were arguing about.
 
  • #18
Mépris said:
My parents watch TV and travel to work together. When they're not doing that, they're sleeping or working. Neither of which are activities they engage in with the other. ;)

Sure, it does fade - I never implied otherwise, iirc. How 'bout this one: people change.

I don't think it's fair on both parties if they force themselves to make something work. As you said, people won't necessarily stay in phase forever.

Too much of a generalisation. Think about what you said. Think there might be some deeper issues in there. Had a bad high school experience, perhaps? :rofl:

Anyway, I don't necessarily think that what you say is true. Perhaps it's a phenomenon that you seem to see in people you know/talk to. While I don't like the idea of being married at all, maybe when it comes to it, I might change my mind. I personally don't see what a marriage can do for one that a monogamous domestic partnership can't.

[1] No one is forcing them so I don't see where this idea of unfairness comes in. There's no gun to a head or knife to a throat. It's the individual's choice to stay in or not. There's something called commitment. You don't just walk out, or leave [file for a divorce].

[2] Why don't you bet money on the answer to that if you're a wo(man)? :smile: No didn't have a bad experience in h.s. Never did.

[3] In your initial post you brought it all together by making a reference to your friends. That's what I consider "people you know/talk to". If anything your post was centered around your folks and your friends. Not enough to arrive at your conclusions.

[4] There lies the problem. You don't like marriages / have a bad view of marriages to begin with that's the reason for what you're writing.
 
  • #19
cmb said:
Can't live with 'em. Can't live without 'em!

I reckon the optimum number of married partners to have is around 0.3, but unfortunately they only come in integer values. Thinking about divorce every so often is therefore an attempt at 'PWM'-ing the on-or-off status of marriage to the preferred value. It's why many re-marry after divorce.

The most successful, divorce-free marriages I have seen are where;
a) one partner fully, and genuinely, hands over responsibility for the married life, has no ambitions other that to perform their task [whether employed or housekeeping] and will defer on all decisions to the other partner,
b) both are happy to go off to do 'their own thing' and live their own lives for >50% of the time,
c) argue like cat-and-dog (let's off steam) but forget immediately what they were arguing about.

The bad marriages typically occur where;
a) one is, or both are, totally infatuated with the other at the outset, because this never lasts and new ambitions (work/love-life) evolve
b) one feels ignored when the other explores their own pursuits,
c) argue like cat-and-dog and have long memories of what they were arguing about.

Nicely put. :cool:
 
  • #20
@cmb
Going by this portrayal of a successful marriage, the one of my parents is a near-successful one.

If that's how it is, a marriage is not what I want. I'm fine with "just" being happy (or trying to). Does it somehow make me less of a person if I don't want to put that much effort into it? *I think* not. I want "happy" and I can get it via different means. Turns out one of them is a successful/happy marriage but I don't think that's ideal for me (at least, not for the "me of now") and there's other, shorter or/and more effective routes to achieving that.
 
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  • #21
@E_D
Maybe no one else is. I only know people I'm exposed to...somehow. And these people seem to stick to their older friends even if they're not particularly happy with it. My understanding is that people, in general, are not too comfortable with change. I'm no psychologist and there's only so much I can learn from observing, interacting and deducing on such a limited data set when dealing with things that can so easily get subjective...

My examples were very specific ones. I'm not trying to be (too) pedantic but you referred to "teens" as a collective.

Why do you think my view is a bad one?
 
  • #22
Mépris said:
@E_D
Maybe no one else is. I only know people I'm exposed to...somehow. And these people seem to stick to their older friends even if they're not particularly happy with it. My understanding is that people, in general, are not too comfortable with change. I'm no psychologist and there's only so much I can learn from observing, interacting and deducing on such a limited data set when dealing with things that can so easily get subjective...

My examples were very specific ones. I'm not trying to be (too) pedantic but you referred to "teens" as a collective.

Why do you think my view is a bad one?

We are dealing with human beings here. And the behavior of humans when it comes to relationships. That's very complex and it's tricky because human beings and their behaviors as it pertain to relationships are NOT the same (unpredictable).

If we were conducting an experiment, we could say, here's our control group, here's that and get the experiment underway. But with marriage it's different. Several factors come into play. Religious views, traditional views, cultural views, upbringing are all factors that come into play in-terms of how a man treats his wife, how a woman treats her husband, how people view divorce. Some culture's it a big shame for a woman to say she's been divorced by her husband. Having two / three marriages is not something to proudly broadcast in some cultures and societies. These are all factors that come into play with marriage. The report that the OP initially posted was about groups of women 200, 300 etc., but it doesn't tell you anything about the factors I mentioned above. These all come into play.

Your view, posts are biased because you've repeatedly admitted you're just not the marriage type. You don't like marriage or the idea of it and in-fact you'll go for "happiness" whatever that means, over marriage. Now, someone holding such a view on marriage, what kind of things do you expect to read from the person about the subject?

You bring up your parents as an example, and said they're probably thinking of divorcing every now and then but just don't show it. Do you know the kind of intimate connection / bond that has been created between them? You don't have access to that kind of level because it's between just the two of them. your observations are not enough to arrive at such a conclusion.

You keep talking about this idea that people are "forcing themselves" to stay with others. I think you're just afraid of commitment.
 
  • #23
Mépris said:
@cmb
Going by this portrayal of a successful marriage, the one of my parents is a near-successful one.

If that's how it is, a marriage is not what I want. I'm fine with "just" being happy (or trying to). Does it somehow make me less of a person if I don't want to put that much effort into it? *I think* not. I want "happy" and I can get it via different means. Turns out one of them is a successful/happy marriage but I don't think that's ideal for me (at least, not for the "me of now") and there's other, shorter or/and more effective routes to achieving that.

[1]you don't put effort into a marriage it won't work. Common sense.
[2]there lies the problem. You're too young to understand
[3]"shorter" that's another problem. you've been brainwashed and sucked into "fast-pace" gimme quick quick of your culture. doesn't happen overnight. It takes time and you're going to bump into problems along the way. that seems to be what you're struggling to accept. the idea that someone will stay with someone (commitment) when problems show up rather than just walk-out / leave. you don't want to be tied down you just want to suck the juice out and go on to the next one. marriage isn't like your boyfriend/girlfriend relationships.
 
  • #24
Edin_Dzeko said:
[1]you don't put effort into a marriage it won't work. Common sense.

's funny that many folks don't get this.

A marriage is not about creating a perfect and harmonous pleasure palace for yourselves, it is about the effort and what you do when things go wrong. The 'value' of a marriage is the sum total of effort you have put into overcome problems together.
 
  • #25
Why should people be married? In what way is a monogamous domestic partnership wrong? Why do you think that being in one implies that one cannot have a perfectly fine relationship on a physical and emotional level?

Edin_Dzeko said:
It's just your opinion / pref and that's okay. My pref / opinion is that I would have it easy and not stress out. I would breeze through the work, go hang with the guys or something than sit there going in circles for ages. :smile:.

There comes a point where the relationship feels a little like that. My point is that people *can* change and when it comes to a point where the people involved just can't click anymore. At this point, I think it's best to move on. We're talking about people with feelings of their own here, not a math problem I can keep in a drawer and pull back five years later.

I also believe that one should try to live happily. I don't see the point in purposely doing things that make one unhappy.
 
  • #26
Mépris said:
Why should people be married? In what way is a monogamous domestic partnership wrong? Why do you think that being in one implies that one cannot have a perfectly fine relationship on a physical and emotional level?

There comes a point where the relationship feels a little like that. My point is that people *can* change and when it comes to a point where the people involved just can't click anymore. At this point, I think it's best to move on. We're talking about people with feelings of their own here, not a math problem I can keep in a drawer and pull back five years later.

I also believe that one should try to live happily. I don't see the point in purposely doing things that make one unhappy.

[1] Listen to yourself. So you'll be in a long relationship with someone, live in the same house with them. Do the same things a married couple does but you just don't want to be considered married? Seems like you're scared of something there. Your fear is with marriage itself. Scared of divorce? Wife getting half of your things? Commitment? You're scared of something. It's weird that you're defending living with someone but not marrying. Why not just go on ahead and marry the person? I don't have anything against monogamous domestic partnership. You're the one who seem to have something against marriage hence your, "why should people be married?" intro.

[2] (a)LOL. :rofl:. You stalked me all the way in the academic forum just to pull my quote from there and use it here? :tongue2: (b)don't be silly. How can you compare math and academics to relationships? Get real, Mep. Can't even believe that. It's not best to move on. A marriage is a commitment. You don't just walk out when it gets hard. This idea of moving on to the next one doesn't hold here. Marriage isn't like your high school boyfriend and girlfriend relationships where you get tired of this guy/girl and go on to the next hot thing. Some way after getting married completely stop taking care of themselves. doesn't work that way. You still have to dress nice, get your hair done, stay in good shape for your man/woman. Keep the fire burning and don't just walk out to the next one. You swore vows "'til death do you apart". Know what that means? Simple English here, wo(man).

[3] Marriage is also about sacrifice. I might have to sacrifice for my wife. Maybe give up something I want to do because I have to help her out or do something with her that she likes which may not be my cup of tea but what I'm doing makes her happy and her being happy makes me happy. Your thinking is very elementary on this subject. You don't seem to understand it very well. This whole "purposefully doing things that makes one unhappy" is a very shaky argument. People don't stay with people "on purpose". You think married people who have been together for 40+ years didn't know what they were swearing to each other? People stay together because they want to. Even if the marriage goes through a slow period where the spark seems to have died out. Suppose a wife isn't in the mood to have sex for a period of about 3 months, but the man's sex drive is real high. He's unhappy with his situation. Going by your logic should he file for a divorce then [move on]? Why do you think people use the term "settle down" when they talk about marriage? One should try and live happily? One of the happiest days of my life ever will be my wedding day and the years after that I spend with my wife. :smile:

There was a forumer here by the name of FrancisZ. Ask him about this stuff.
 
  • #27
Thread closed due to bickering.
 

1. What factors contribute to the fine line between marriage and divorce?

The fine line between marriage and divorce can be influenced by a variety of factors, including communication issues, financial problems, infidelity, and compatibility. Each relationship is unique, so the specific factors may vary.

2. How can couples navigate this fine line and prevent divorce?

Communication is key in navigating the fine line between marriage and divorce. Couples should openly discuss their concerns and work together to find solutions. Seeking therapy or counseling can also be helpful in addressing underlying issues and improving the relationship.

3. Is there a way to predict if a marriage will end in divorce?

There is no surefire way to predict if a marriage will end in divorce. However, certain risk factors such as lack of communication, financial strain, and infidelity may increase the likelihood of divorce.

4. How can couples maintain a healthy balance between independence and togetherness in a marriage?

Maintaining a healthy balance between independence and togetherness in a marriage requires open communication and mutual respect. Couples should set boundaries and make time for both individual and shared interests. It is also important to support each other's personal growth and allow for independence within the relationship.

5. What are some warning signs that a marriage may be headed towards divorce?

Some warning signs that a marriage may be headed towards divorce include frequent arguments, lack of communication, loss of intimacy, and feeling emotionally disconnected from your partner. Other signs may include one partner expressing a desire for separation or divorce, or seeking emotional or physical fulfillment outside of the marriage.

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