How Quantum Theory Explains Human Consciousness

In summary: According to this article, the researchers found that the decoherence time for microtubules could be up to 100 μ sec. This is much longer than the 10 to 100 msec claimed by Tegmark in his 2002 paper. The researchers are still investigating the subject, so it would be premature to draw any conclusions.
  • #1
sytstp
7
0
Hi,

After some (limited) reading I've written an article on the captioned subject :

http://3fathom.dyndns.org/QM-Consciousness.htm

I post it here for feedback. Intellectual stimulation, please!

Thanks,
Stewart
 
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  • #2
sytstp said:
Hi,

After some (limited) reading I've written an article on the captioned subject :

http://3fathom.dyndns.org/QM-Consciousness.htm

I post it here for feedback. Intellectual stimulation, please!

Thanks,
Stewart
Hi, I think you might do better posting this as a biology or neuroscience topic, or maybe in the philosophy forum.

But for now, wrt my point of view, you've made some assumptions that I think would be very difficult to support.

sytstp said:
Quantum theory is relevant to human consciousness because collapse-type quantum events (the transition of a quantum state to an eigenstate bj of the measured observable B with a certain probability) are intrinsically random, and this randomness is primary (ontic) rather than merely due to ignorance or missing information (epistemic).This ontic randomness, in contrast to deterministic classical physics, can more suitably account for conscious mental acts influencing brain behavior, manifested outward as volition or free will.

I think that the fact of the matter, that is, the current state of affairs, is that quantum theory doesn't explain human consciousness. And imho it's never going to.

Hopefully, you'll get more intellectually stimulated by some PF members, and there are some, who know a lot about both neuroscience and qm ... which I don't.

It's always interesting to consider ideas that I haven't considered before. So, I bumped your OP. But, I predict that your thread will either get deleted or moved.
 
  • #3
Hi Thomas,

"...I predict that your thread will either get deleted or moved."

Why get deleted? In my article, I am just summarizing veiws from famous phycisists like Penrose,Stapp, Beck, Eccles, Ricciardi, Umezawa, etc.

I don't mind moving the topic anywhere, be it neuroscience or philosophy, as long as it is a forum for intellectual discussioin. However, I think many of the theoretical schemes covered in my article are DIRECTLY related to Quantum Physics, and as such my article is a legitimate topic for discussion here.

Glad to hear that there are some members here "...who know a lot about both neuroscience and qm...".

Eagerly looking forward to intellectually stimulaing feedback!

Cheers,
Stewart
 
  • #4
I can hardly call your link an article.

I think it needs more substance before anyone will evaluate the content.
 
  • #5
Just some quick facts:

- Neural events happen on the order of a few hundred hertz.

- Neurons can be very precisely modeled using the physics of ion channels and neurotransmitter diffusion. To date, no one has been able to show that neurons behave randomly in any way. Neurons are very large and the randomness of their individual molecules averages out. They appear to be quite deterministic in nature (note, though, that they do show deterministic chaos).

- Nobody has ever shown that complicated entanglement or anything like that exists in microtubules. It's just some random shot in the dark that Penrose made.

- Any wavefunction collapse in microtubules would be on the order of femtoseconds, far too slow to have any effect on neural activity. Look at this link: http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9907009

- Quantum theory is just a mathematical model. It is unlikely that quantum theory (or any other descriptive theory) would be enough to explain consciousness.

- Studies have indicated that consciousness is correlated with the degree of synchronicity of various areas of the brain. Anaesthetized brains show a 'disconnect' between different brain regions. If you want to study consciousness, this would be a good place to start, not the incoherent musings of some erratic mathematician (no disrespect to Penrose, but it would be great if he just stuck to what he's good at).
 
  • #6
StevieTNZ,

I am terrribly sorry if my referring to the "article" is a misnomer and has unwittingly exaggerated my homework that is meant to be a mere summary of the status quo.

Let's simply call it my "Study Notes".

My apologies.

Stewart





IttyBittyBit,

Thank you for your contribution.

In response to Tegmark, Hagan et al.(2002)critically examined the decoherence mechanisms likely to dominate in a biological setting and found that a revised version of Tegmark's model provided decoherence times up to 10 to 100 μ sec, and argued that this can be extended up to the neurophysiologically relevant range of 10 to 100 msec under particular assumptions of the scenario by Penrose and Hameroff. See below :

http://pre.aps.org/abstract/PRE/v65/i6/e061901

The study is still going on and it would be premature for anyone to make any conclusion here and now. I think this topic is a great, perhaps the greatest challenge to human intellect. Let's (especially the younger ones) see if there will be any breakthrough in the 21st Century!

Regards,
Stewart
 

1. What is Quantum Theory and how does it relate to human consciousness?

Quantum Theory is a branch of physics that explains the behavior of particles at the atomic and subatomic levels. It suggests that particles can exist in multiple states at once and can be influenced by observation. Some scientists propose that this theory can also explain the mysterious phenomenon of human consciousness and how it relates to the physical world.

2. Can Quantum Theory fully explain human consciousness?

While Quantum Theory offers a unique and intriguing perspective on consciousness, it is still a highly debated and complex topic. Many scientists argue that it is not yet possible for any one theory to fully explain the complexity of human consciousness.

3. How does the concept of "observation" play a role in Quantum Theory's explanation of consciousness?

In Quantum Theory, observation refers to the act of measuring or interacting with a particle. This observation can cause the particle to collapse into a single state, known as the "observer effect." Some scientists believe that this effect can also apply to human consciousness, suggesting that our observations and thoughts can shape our reality.

4. What evidence supports the idea that Quantum Theory explains human consciousness?

There is no concrete evidence that definitively links Quantum Theory to human consciousness. However, some studies have shown that the brain may operate on a quantum level and that consciousness may be a result of quantum processes. Additionally, the concept of entanglement, where particles can influence each other regardless of distance, has been proposed as a potential explanation for how consciousness can exist beyond the physical body.

5. Are there any criticisms of using Quantum Theory to explain consciousness?

Yes, there are many criticisms of using Quantum Theory to explain consciousness. Some argue that consciousness is a purely biological phenomenon and cannot be explained by physics. Others argue that Quantum Theory is not yet fully understood and should not be applied to complex topics like consciousness. Additionally, the lack of concrete evidence and the highly theoretical nature of the theory make it a controversial topic in the scientific community.

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