Is it difficult for a successful man to date a top physics student?

[anon2000]

Hi, i am not a physicist, and i am looking for a hypothetical advice here. Suppose a guy has a lot of income potential (medicine, banking, or rich parents) and wants to date a woman who is smarter than he is. Would it be hard for him to date a woman who goes to a top physics program, assuming she is not good looking, but not hideous either(that means that her physics classmates might be interested in her as well, but she and they understand that she wouldn't be in demand if she weren't successful academically)? Or do most such physics girls prefer to just stick to their own, since they have plenty of physics guys around them, who are just as smart as they are?

 

[Jelfish]

This conversation is going to be laced with poor generalizations, but I'll try to contribute something.

I go to a college with few but generally intellegent females. By virtue of being an engineering school, we tend to attract many women who are into math and science, and consequently, also have many common interests with the guys here. In general, it becomes a bit more difficult for guys to get a girlfriend here because more often than not, the girls are just friends out of common interest and such. The fact that she is a girl and sought after or perhaps objectified despite wanting to be an equal can make her resent the idea of dating altogether.

Therefore, I would say that if you're not a physicist or really into math and science, my guess is that you have a better chance of dating a 'physics girl.' I would say that physics women would probably prefer to be seen as collegues or equals by physics men rather than the departmental tna.

 

[SpaceTiger]

A lot of the physics girls I know are looking specifically for non-physicists. I think it is true that smart people tend to seek out (and get along better with) other smart people, but you certainly don't have to be a physicist to be smart. If this person has a lot of income potential due to a job in medicine or banking, then they're likely pretty sharp. If they have a lot of money because their parents do...then it depends on what else they're doing with their lives. In my experience, women (physics or otherwise) like their men to be self-sufficient.

 

[franznietzsche]

I know this one girl who is working on the theoretical aspect of phase transitions between smectic A and smectic C liquid crystals. Its seriously the hottest thing, you have no idea.

 

[Gale]

i'm a math girl and i tend to not really go for math guys. i know another girl who's into physics, and she definately won't date someone in the field. being a math person, i really prefer to be around guys with a good understand of the basics (up through calc) and the more is better. that's why i like science guys, cause they always use math, even if they don't appreciate it the way i do, at least i can talk about my studies without blank stares or scared faces. I'd guess that a girl in physics might not necessarily only date other physics guys, but probably a guy who at least appreciates science and she can talk to about it.

and i don't know how much money has to do with it. but i guess a girl ambitious enough to study physics wouldn't be interested in a loaf.

 

[honestrosewater]

I would say that physics women would probably prefer to be seen as collegues or equals by physics men rather than the departmental tna.

Do you think (it's a commonly held belief among these men that) a woman cannot be both your equal and a man's girlfriend/spouse/sex partner/whatever? You seem to say that the women's choices are either be their equals or date them -- you can't do both.

I don't really have anything to add yet, but FYI, she might not care how "in demand" she is.

 

[franznietzsche]

Do you think (it's a commonly held belief among these men that) a woman cannot be both your equal and a man's girlfriend/spouse/sex partner/whatever? You seem to say that the women's choices are either be their equals or date them -- you can't do both.

I don't really have anything to add yet, but FYI, she might not care how "in demand" she is.

For my own part, I have zero interest in a woman who is not my equal anymore. I'm really really picky about it too, as I can get easily bored or annoyed at times. I would never seriously date anyone I didn't consider to be my intellectual equal anymore. I would just get bored in that sort of relationship.

 

[anon2000]

hey guys could you also add the following info: are you in top physics programs(ivies,etc) and/or are you speaking for students in those programs? I'm asking this because while people in undergrad or in lower ph.d. programs may be just as smart, they don't have the same aura of prestige around them. Now after answering this question, please give us some data, i.e. "my program is 10% females. Of those females, 50% are single, 10% date physicists from my program, 10% date ph.d. students from another dept", etc. Thanks!

To address another point, i doubt that physicists treat women as "TnA". It's pretty clear to me that physicists are humble and smart. They also can appreciate how smart a woman doing physics ph.d. really is, so they are the least likely to objectify her. So it seems to me that for an outsider to date a physics girl, she must first reject the men (10:1 ratio) in her dept, and then the outsider must meet the qualities that those men possess(smart+humble) and more(money). I can only offer money. And it seems if a woman is interested in money(physicists make enough money to live comfortably), then she wouldn't go into physics, it's easier to marry into money if you just major in humanities at an ivyleague school and make the right acquaintances. Obviously physics chicks are more impressed by intellect:(

 

[Jelfish]

Do you think (it's a commonly held belief among these men that) a woman cannot be both your equal and a man's girlfriend/spouse/sex partner/whatever? You seem to say that the women's choices are either be their equals or date them -- you can't do both.

I don't really have anything to add yet, but FYI, she might not care how "in demand" she is.

I guess what I mean is that there is a dichotomy from being a love interest and a co-worker. And mixing those positions can be dangerous, but perhaps sometimes it is inevitable if you are a female in an environment of mostly males. I know many girls who feel that sort of frustration, that they are put into a position of being a possible love interest when they want to be seen as just another physicist or engineer without any special attention. There's definitely no reason why a woman in a sciency field couldn't be both. My point is that it may be the case that many times they don't want that and it's forced onto them (obviously I can't speak directly for women, but this is what seems to be the case based on what some of my female classmates have said). By 'equal,' I didn't mean intellegent or even a scientist, but rather a person in an environment where the role that she takes is gender-nonspecific.

 

[anon2000]

Also what are your thoughts on the following:
a) if a physics girl is specifically interested in meeting outsiders, how would she go about meeting them?
b) if an outsider is interested specifically in physics girls, should he come into gradschool seminars and try to make random conversations with physics girls and make up some legend for why he strolled into the lecture?

 

[anon2000]

I guess what I mean is that there is a dichotomy from being a love interest and a co-worker. And mixing those positions can be dangerous, but perhaps sometimes it is inevitable if you are a female in an environment of mostly males. I know many girls who feel that sort of frustration, that they are put into a position of being a possible love interest when they want to be seen as just another physicist or engineer without any special attention. There's definitely no reason why a woman in a sciency field couldn't be both. My point is that it may be the case that many times they don't want that and it's forced onto them (obviously I can't speak directly for women, but this is what seems to be the case based on what some of my female classmates have said). By 'equal,' I didn't mean intellegent or even a scientist, but rather a person in an environment where the role that she takes is gender-nonspecific.

But in grad school, you are still students, even if the major part of your education is research(you're not writing any grants). I thought most chicks wanted to go into professional fields(law,medicine,physics) because then they would be surrounded by successful men, whereas if they're only bartenders, they are lucky to serve a professional man.

 

[Jelfish]

But in grad school, you are still students, even if the major part of your education is research(you're not writing any grants). I thought most chicks wanted to go into professional fields(law,medicine,physics) because then they would be surrounded by successful men, whereas if they're only bartenders, they are lucky to serve a professional man.

I think that might be a little bit antiquated. I would think that a successful woman would not necessarily have to choose a man who is also very successful. If she's successful, she has the independence and ability to choose based on other characteristics.

I think the bottom line is - if you find someone attractive and you are genuinly interested, you should try your luck regardless. Ingraining these generalizations isn't really going to help you.

 

[anon2000]

here is the data that i have on males/females in a certain physics program, to which i have no affiliation. I can't reveal any details, only general observations. The program had about 8:1 male to female ratio. Of the 5 females, 4 married the guys in their dept. Those 4 all looked average(not hot and not hideous). 1 woman married an outsider, but she's not a typical female physicist, because she married about 5 times.. An interesting observation is that the 4 women didnt necessarily marry the best 4 physicists, that is many male physicists preferred to marry artsy women. But all those women wanted any physicist they could get.

 

[honestrosewater]

I guess what I mean is that there is a dichotomy from being a love interest and a co-worker. And mixing those positions can be dangerous, but perhaps sometimes it is inevitable if you are a female in an environment of mostly males. I know many girls who feel that sort of frustration, that they are put into a position of being a possible love interest when they want to be seen as just another physicist or engineer without any special attention. There's definitely no reason why a woman in a sciency field couldn't be both.

What if competing in a male-dominated field is seen as masculine/unfeminine? I think gender roles and the competition thing might be the source of the conflict here, but perhaps that's because I've felt that conflict myself (and it's different than the dating-a-coworker thing, which I imagine poses the same problems for both men and women). Anywho, sorry, anon2000, don't want to derail things.

I thought most chicks wanted to go into professional fields(law,medicine,physics) because then they would be surrounded by successful men, whereas if they're only bartenders, they are lucky to serve a professional man.

In what country do most women still go to school to meet a husband? Are you in the US? I thought that stopped here a while ago.

 

[anon2000]

I'm pretty sure most educated women prefer to meet a man in a lab or a lecture seminar rather than at a bar. Women study hard to get into a top professional program. They are rewarded by being surrounded by successful men! And no, it is not normal for a female physicist to date a truck driver(even if he's hawt).

 

[Moonbear]

The most important thing for a woman studying a field like physics is to find a guy with a mobile career. When you get very specialized, there aren't a lot of choices of places where you can get a job that will satisfy your career goals, thus it's really a lot easier to date someone outside that field, especially if it's a field where you can work almost anywhere. One of the biggest obstacles I've seen for women trying to pursue a career in any of the sciences is meeting a man who also has a very limited choice of locations to practice his career...far too often, I've seen the women settle for following the guy wherever he can get a job, or they split up when neither is willing to give up their career for the sake of the other's career. I've never yet seen a couple where the husband follows the wife. One couple I know tried it that way, but the husband couldn't find a job where the wife did, and after several years of him staying stuck in a really lousy lab, she finally caved in and followed him where he could finally find a job.

Of course, you still have to be a guy worth dating. Earning potential alone isn't going to win you a smart woman.

 

[franznietzsche]

Of course, you still have to be a guy worth dating. Earning potential alone isn't going to win you a smart woman.

Always with the catches. :grumpy:

 

[Math Is Hard]

Always with the catches. :grumpy:

I know. I keep telling her she's too picky.

 

[Moonbear]

I know. I keep telling her she's too picky.

Yeah, that okcupid quiz told me the same thing. I'm even pickier now...earning potential isn't enough; I'm too old to wait for potential to turn into something, he has to be actually earning already.

 

[kant]

Hi, i am not a physicist, and i am looking for a hypothetical advice here. Suppose a guy has a lot of income potential (medicine, banking, or rich parents) and wants to date a woman who is smarter than he is. Would it be hard for him to date a woman who goes to a top physics program, assuming she is not good looking, but not hideous either(that means that her physics classmates might be interested in her as well, but she and they understand that she wouldn't be in demand if she weren't successful academically)? Or do most such physics girls prefer to just stick to their own, since they have plenty of physics guys around them, who are just as smart as they are?

You are too lame. You should be more self-confident.

 

[honestrosewater]

Women study hard to get into a top professional program. They are rewarded by being surrounded by successful men!

What makes you think that that is a reward? And what about, um, getting to do the work? Do you think the same is true of men? Am I just being paranoid now? Did you say 'chicks'? If anything, if a man is what you want, I would think being in a top professional program would make it harder, not easier, to get one. Doesn't grad school and such pretty much take over a person's life? It doesn't strike me as something that someone who is looking for a relationship would commit to unless they didn't expect to have to put much time or energy into or make many sacrifices for the relationship. Not to mention that it might intimidate some potential mates...

 

[franznietzsche]

What makes you think that that is a reward? And what about, um, getting to do the work? Do you think the same is true of men? Am I just being paranoid now? Did you say 'chicks'? If anything, if a man is what you want, I would think being in a top professional program would make it harder, not easier, to get one. Doesn't grad school and such pretty much take over a person's life? It doesn't strike me as something that someone who is looking for a relationship would commit to unless they didn't expect to have to put much time or energy into or make many sacrifices for the relationship. Not to mention that it might intimidate some potential mates...

He's just a closet misogynist, that's all. Eh, where are all the smart women on friday night mardi gras weekend when I'm ditching my study group? Who am I supposed to through these beads at now?

 

[honestrosewater]

He's just a closet misogynist, that's all. Eh, where are all the smart women on friday night mardi gras weekend when I'm ditching my study group? Who am I supposed to through these beads at now?

Is it Mardi Gras weekend? Wow, I need to get out more. What is this throughing of beads thing? Sounds kinky. (Sorry. )

 

[zoobyshoe]

Is it Mardi Gras weekend? Wow, I need to get out more. What is this throughing of beads thing? Sounds kinky. (Sorry. )

Yeah, he's never going to find anyone to through his beads at.

 

[honestrosewater]

Yeah, he's never going to find anyone to through his beads at.

Aw, the poor kid has obviously worked his brain to the pia mater. I would let you through your beads at me, franz, but it would be a pity through, and I respect you too much for that.

 

[Gale]

this thread is kind of weird. its like you're objectifying women in an entirely new way. a woman studying physics is smart, and i have this feeling that you have some underlying motives that she'll be able to see through. Even if you manage to date a girl in physics, you have to actually have chemistry if its going to last.

 

[Moonbear]

Even if you manage to date a girl in physics, you have to actually have chemistry if its going to last.

:rofl: Good one!

 

[mattmns]

I don't understand the thread either. You just want to date someone who is smarter than you, and ugly? Are you going to try to manipulate her to do something or what is your whole plane here? It seems you just need to "through" this idea out the window, and think of something else. Hmm, that is the best I could come up with while staying on topic, and making fun of Franz's lack of spelling at the same time, sorry

 

[franznietzsche]

Is it Mardi Gras weekend? Wow, I need to get out more. What is this throughing of beads thing? Sounds kinky. (Sorry. )

Bah, it was late last night, I was tired, I had unthrown beads still.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Anon2000 is just trying to figure out if he's got a chance with a girl into physics that he's attracted to. Nothing wrong with research.

 

[anon2000]

Anon2000 is just trying to figure out if he's got a chance with a girl into physics that he's attracted to. Nothing wrong with research.

the truth is that i got shut down by a physics girl. although she is smarter than me, she is even hotter than smarter. now i notice that i don't have it easy in the world. girls reject me. it's also not easy for me to get a really successful career. that's why i hope if i have a kid some day, he'll be at the least as smart as me, but preferably smarter. so i would now settle for an average-looking physics or math girl. I'm not really into chemistry any more.

 

[zoobyshoe]

the truth is that i got shut down by a physics girl. although she is smarter than me, she is even hotter than smarter. now i notice that i don't have it easy in the world. girls reject me. it's also not easy for me to get a really successful career. that's why i hope if i have a kid some day, he'll be at the least as smart as me, but preferably smarter. so i would now settle for an average-looking physics or math girl. I'm not really into chemistry any more.

How old are you?

 

[anon2000]

How old are you?

it's irrelevant to my theoretical question/poll. but i am over 21.

 

[Gale]

so you're just wanting to get married eh? is that why you came here? just to ask this question or potentially find women? don't you want to fall in love?

at any rate, if you're looking for more of a business-like marriage where she gives you intelligent offspring and you give her money and financial support, i suppose you have to not only find a physics girl, but one who also isn't looking to fall in love. that's probably going to be trickier. even if a girl studies physics and dates outside the field, she's still looking for a meaningful relationship, she just thinks her chances are better if she plays the field.

so where are you getting this money from? and why can't you get a successful career?

 

[anon2000]

yes, i came here to ask a hypothetical question. i am not looking to find women online, i wouldn't even have time presently to date a woman. i think "love" is not something that can be "observed and measured". but i admit it is not normal that a man is not looking for women whom he would find attractive(though i wouldn't refuse a smart+attractive woman), i guess it's called settling down.
i did not say that i had money or i couldn't get a successful career, though it is not easy for me. but some careers bring a lot more money than physics even if they require less intelligence(surgeon, trader,etc), and IQ is genetic. It is easier to get A's and to do well on standardized tests if you have a higher IQ.

so you're just wanting to get married eh? is that why you came here? just to ask this question or potentially find women? don't you want to fall in love?

at any rate, if you're looking for more of a business-like marriage where she gives you intelligent offspring and you give her money and financial support, i suppose you have to not only find a physics girl, but one who also isn't looking to fall in love. that's probably going to be trickier. even if a girl studies physics and dates outside the field, she's still looking for a meaningful relationship, she just thinks her chances are better if she plays the field.

so where are you getting this money from? and why can't you get a successful career?