Breaking the Taboo: Black Women and White Men Relationships

[Ivan Seeking]

Probably a doomed thread, I thought this was a very striking story.

'Could Mr. Right be white?' More black women consider 'dating out'

For years, Toinetta Jones played the dating game by her mom's strict rule. "Mom always told me, 'Don't you ever bring a white man home,"' recalled Jones, echoing an edict issued by many Southern, black mothers. But at 37, the Alexandria divorcee has shifted to dating "anyone who asks me out," regardless of race.

"I don't sit around dreaming about the perfect black man I'm going to marry," Jones said. Black women around the country also are reconsidering deep-seated reservations toward interracial relationships, reservations rooted in America's history of slavery and segregation.

...Black women on campus largely are surrounded by non-black men: In 2004, 26.5 percent of black males ages 18 to 24 were enrolled in college versus 36.5 percent of black women that age, according to the American Council on Education's most recent statistics. [I wonder how a comparison of majors looks?]

Even after college, Roslyn Holcomb struggled to meet professional black men.

"I wanted to get married (and) have children," she said. "If I was only meeting one guy a year, or every few years, that wasn't going to happen." [continued]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/personal/08/06/interracial.dating.ap/index.html

IMO there is little doubt about it: Generally speaking, black men are in trouble, even in the view of black women, which is ironic when we consider that Obama is the first black man who could be elected to the highest office in the land. Even though racial barriers are falling, on the average, black men are struggling as much as ever.

But black men are voicing their own frustrations with women they feel regard them with suspicion. "They treat us all the same," said W. Randy Short, a Washington writer who dates across races. "The rapist on the TV is the same as me."

The disproportionate representation of black Americans in the U.S. criminal justice system is well documented.(17) Blacks comprise 13 percent of the national population, but 30 percent of people arrested, 41 percent of people in jail,(18) and 49 percent of those in prison.(19) Nine percent of all black adults are under some form of correctional supervision (in jail or prison, on probation or parole), compared to two percent of white adults. (20) One in three black men between the ages of 20 and 29 was either in jail or prison, or on parole or probation in 1995.(21) One in ten black men in their twenties and early thirties is in prison or jail. (22) Thirteen percent of the black adult male population has lost the right to vote because of felony disenfranchisement laws.(23)

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/usa/Rcedrg00-01.htm

 

[turbo]

My nephew is a lifer in the Navy. His wife is a lifer in the Navy, and when he married her, she already had a daughter. He is white, his wife is black, and his daughter is probably the most attractive and charming lady that I have ever met. She is killer cute.

My nephew is a chief and has been voted "Sailor of the year" for his ship, his group, etc, over and over again. He gets to choose assignments in the Navy, but if he opted out, he would have to fight to come back to rural America and live with his family, even in "liberal" New England. I love my family, and I hate intolerance.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Sure, but this is not about intolerance, it is about black women literally giving up on finding an acceptable black husband; of a similar social status. I don't think I have heard of anything quite like this before. At the root of this are the questions: What's happening to black men. And next, why are black women seemingly doing better? And of course one has to wonder about the long term implications. I guess for one, a trend like this will help to brind down racial barriers as mixed families become more common and as the races are diluted.

 

[turbo]

I don't know if she "gave up" on finding a suitable mate who is black, but she got a loving mate who is serious about raising a smart, well-adjusted daughter who isn't afraid to work for what she wants. I'm not sure that there is a whole lot of social import in the "dating out" idea anyway. If you find a person that you click with, their race is not real important to that relationship, though it may have implications with family, friends, etc.

I'm just concerned about the longer-term implications of their eventual retirement. Their pensions would go a lot farther in rural Maine than in San Diego, but interracial couples are rare here, and they would face challenges socially. My wife and I had a house in a fairly nice development, and when an interracial couple bought a house a couple of blocks away, the previous owner (retired state trooper) went around the neighborhood apologizing to people. What an idiot! The new owners are a nice couple. He manages a chain store and his wife operates a day-care center out of their home.

I dated a young black woman in college for a bit. That earned me a lot of grief from a couple of black guys who were interested in her, including one HUGE fellow who wasn't shy about spouting racist crap in the dining hall and other public places. One reason that I lost interest in that woman is that I found out that she held a white co-ed in disdain, seemingly for the same reason - she was dating a black guy. Intolerance comes easy, it seems.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I don't know if she "gave up" on finding a suitable mate who is black

That was the entire point of the story: That black women are starting to date white men due to a lack of acceptable black men.

 

[turbo]

That was the entire point of the story: That black women are starting to date white men due to a lack of acceptable black men.

I know. The fact is that there are a lot of black male sailors based out of San Diego, and the fact that they're making it in the Navy with the discipline, training requirements, deployments, etc, implies that there might be a lot of decent, eligible black guys there. She ended up with my nephew, though, and they are perfect for each other, and he is a perfect dad for their daughter.

 

[LydiaAC]

Hello everybody:
I think this is a sort of "diffusion" phenomena. Interracial couples has been always possible but now, they are more probable because barriers are weaker. So, some black women try a white guy and if things work, they marry. However, we see a big flux of black women marrying with white men, because we think that the normal thing would be black women marrying black men and white women marrying white men. Actually, if race were not an issue, we must find that black women choose black or white men in the same proportion. We are very far from that situation.
Nevertheless, I think that the statistics about black men reveal a real problem. Racists make a big fuss about this thing, but the fact that black women do not share the problem proves irrefutably that race has nothing to do. We Mexicans have a similar problem. A work partner said to me that he had a Green Card but he did not want to work in United States because he did not want for his kids be criminals.
I had never understand this Mexican thing to love everybody who is Mexican, independently of behavior. When a Mexican is condemned to death in United States, he is a sort of hero, guilty or not. Mexicans living in United States have preference to make friendship with other Mexicans. Do you think this is right? I think it is not when you prefer a criminal Mexican to a decent American. The isolation of Mexican Americans is apparent when you hear how they speak Spanish. I know people who left Mexico with a College education, speaking Spanish very well and some years later, they speak Spanish like an illiterate, because this is the kind of people who they have exclusive contact.
So, I don't think nobody must be worry about black women marrying white men. What must be a worry is black women marrying criminal black men, only because they are black. If black men lost the advantage to be selected by his race, I am sure they will try harder to be an eligible partner. Men can do any possible thing to have women.
Lydia

 

[Economist]

Actually, if race were not an issue, we must find that black women choose black or white men in the same proportion.

Not neccessarily true. If there were no racist people and everyone was color blind, you still may find that different races tend to hand out with each other more often and marry within their race more often. Even without racism people may still be likely to live in areas and go to schools that tend to be racially disproportional for various socio-economic reasons that don't depend on racism, discrimination, etc. Therefore, you still may see people tending to marry within their race more often than not.

 

[LydiaAC]

Hello Economist:
If everyone where colorblind and educational level, hobbies, activities, neighborhoods and languages, were equally distributed, do you think that people would prefer marry within their own race, either?
I think it is possible but must be proven or refuted by some evidence. Maybe sociobiology has something to say.
However, if the equilibrium value is not 50-50, the fact that now we see a flux of black women marrying white men, suggest that the current proportion is not at equilibrium.

When I went to Melbourne, some students of University recommended to me to visit "Casa de España" when Spanish speaking people reunited. I walked a few blocks to find that, apart from language, they have nothing in common with me. I saw a pool table and I wanted to play and they have problem with that because women "do not play pool". They thought that world is a hard place and Hispanics are doomed to suffer. If I lived in Australia, I am sure I would never have married some of them.
Lydia

 

[turbo]

Maine may be an exception, but here the white woman/black man couples seem to far outnumber the black woman/white man couples.

 

[Economist]

Hello Economist:
If everyone where colorblind and educational level, hobbies, activities, neighborhoods and languages, were equally distributed, do you think that people would prefer marry within their own race, either?

No. If everything was equally distributed among races, then I think you'd expect that race would make no difference at all, and everyone would be equally likely to marry. However, even in a world without any racism and discrimination I think we would expect to see hobbies, education levels, neighborhoods, etc, somewhat correlated with race for various reasons.

 

[Astronuc]

No. If everything was equally distributed among races, then I think you'd expect that race would make no difference at all, and everyone would be equally likely to marry. However, even in a world without any racism and discrimination I think we would expect to see hobbies, education levels, neighborhoods, etc, somewhat correlated with race for various reasons.

Probably culture/ethnicity would be major factors.

to live in areas and go to schools that tend to be racially disproportional for various socio-economic reasons that don't depend on racism, discrimination, etc.

I think though, that there is an inherent racial discrimination that leads to segregation by socio-economic factors, based on my experience of that last 40 years. The segregation by race, ethnic group or socio-economic status transcends generations.

 

[Economist]

I think though, that there is an inherent racial discrimination that leads to segregation by socio-economic factors, based on my experience of that last 40 years. The segregation by race, ethnic group or socio-economic status transcends generations.

That could be true.

I guess I'm just not convinced. I think different races, differ for reasons outside of just racial discrimination. Many African Americans get very poor education, because African American's make up a disproportionate number of people in low income areas. The reasons for this are probably very complex, and some of the factors are probably related to racial discrimination while others aren't. For example, many children raised in these circumstances come from single parent households (usually a single mother), which is clearly a variable related to income and therefore where one lives (and it's also a variable that is probably not tied much to racial discrimination). Another example, is that Jews only make up 1 in 1000 (0.1%) of the population, yet they receive 29% of the Nobel Prizes in Science and Literature. These facts don't seem so clearly tied to racial discrimination, but maybe I'm just missing something.

Thomas Sowell is very interested in this topic, and in his view people should not expect things to be completely equal among different races, because of geography, culture, values, hobbies, history, and many other variables. He claims it's odd that people look to disparities in various things as "proof" of racial discrimination, because in his view it's an exception rather than the rule. If anyone is interested he's written many books, articles, and speeches on the topic.

Just for the record, I'm not saying Dr. Sowell is correct, but rather that it's complicated topic, and there might be many variables aside from just racial discrimination that play a key role.

 

[LydiaAC]

Hello:
That is exactly the reason by which so much people do not like capitalism. People differ in interests and this difference is translated into economic differences because the market value to write poetry or to stoke broking very different.
Races differ because they were selected in different environment. If sun is abundant, blacks are the superior race and if sun is scarce, whites are. I think that it is probable that African-Americans (not Africans in general) were selected to survive adversity. How do you think that a black person, proud and arrogant, sure of his own ability and with a predisposition to be his own boss, could manage to be subject of slavery? I think they could not: they died. However, black people, hard and strong, able to control their pain and with a more than extraordinary love for life, survived.
What of both sets of qualities is "superior"? I think none, but the first set is more valuable in a market economy. But, if an atomic bomb or an electromagnetic pulse destroyed the society in which we live, I am sure that blacks would be more able to cope with it.
This is somewhat an exaggeration, only intended to point out that I am open to accept some genetic component in differences between races, but I think that we must not hurry to attribute any difference to genes. I think that the most important component is a cultural disadvantage. It is different to be educated than to be children of educated people than to be grandchildren of educated people or descent of a long tradition of educated people.
I can see it in Mexico. I always say that I am "second-generation" because my parents had a college education, but not my grandparents. Most of my schoolmates are "first-generation". They must learn in school things that I learned in home. In a party, a Russian professor talk us about how she and her son interchanged e-mails in which they discuss about meaning of life and ask us if we talk with our parents about that. Most students were perplexed and one of them said her that "if I said my father something similar, he would slap my face and shout "Are you crazy? Think of something useful: food, home, not that crap!""
I think that in the case of Jews, a cultural advantage is the answer. From biblical times, they were used to read and discuss scriptures. There is a long tradition for study between Jews which make things easier for them. Could it be genetics? It could be if Jews were a race, but they are not! Askhenazi gene pool is more related to Germans than Sefaradi gen pool. And Sefaradi gen pool is more related to Spanish people than to Askhenazi gene pool.
I think that if I could live in a world with zero discrimination, it could be easier to see how much and which differences between races remain. Some people think we already live in that world because discrimination is not already in law, but that is not true.
Lydia

 

[Economist]

only intended to point out that I am open to accept some genetic component in differences between races, but I think that we must not hurry to attribute any difference to genes.

I was not implying that genetics had anything to do with it. In my own personal view, genetics has nothing to do with it. I was just pointing out that there are many socio-economic reasons that would lead to differences amoung race, gender, age, religion, etc, that have nothing to do with prejudice and discrimination.

 

[Ronnin]

Would it be considered racist if a man or woman chose a spouse based on say hair color, eye color, build, ect? Perhaps, for the sake of "shaping" the look of the children. I think people can have prejuduces without being a racist.

 

[Economist]

Would it be considered racist if a man or woman chose a spouse based on say hair color, eye color, build, ect? Perhaps, for the sake of "shaping" the look of the children. I think people can have prejuduces without being a racist.

Well, to be technical one needs to separate prejudice, stereotypes, and discrimination. In my Social Psychology class we defined them this way. Stereotypes are broad over-generalizations people place on a group (such as, women are bad drivers, old people are cheap, athletes are dumb, asians are good at math, etc). Prejudice is an emotional dislike of someone for belonging to a group (such as, racism, sexism, etc). Discrimination is a behavior directed at someone for being part of a group (such as, not hiring someone because of race or gender, or not marrying someone because of race, etc). These three things can sometimes go hand-in-hand and sometimes one causes the other, but they're not neccessarily related (you can have elements of one without either of the other two).

I would say that your example is possibly discrimination (if for example you wouldn't date someone for a certain hair or eye color). Unless of course you just not attracted to those eye or hair colors, then I guess it'd be more prejudice.

I agree with you though that prejudice and racism are not the same thing, specifically racism is a type (or subset) of prejudice (but not the other way around).

 

[kdv]

Not neccessarily true. If there were no racist people and everyone was color blind, you still may find that different races tend to hand out with each other more often and marry within their race more often. Even without racism people may still be likely to live in areas and go to schools that tend to be racially disproportional for various socio-economic reasons that don't depend on racism, discrimination, etc. Therefore, you still may see people tending to marry within their race more often than not.

Aside from cultural/socio-economic factors, am I the only thinking that there is also a biological aspect that tends to make people of our race more attractive? I certainly feel more attracted physically to women of my race but I have absolutely no racist bias whatsoever. . Just in tersm of pure physical attraction, I don't find women of other races attractive. I can see women of other races and realize that they are beautiful in a purely abstract sense but I don't find myself attracted. I am surprised that nobody has mentioned that, maybe I am exceptional in that respect.

 

[binzing]

I'm not at all against these type of relationships, its just for me, black girls just aren't in the slightest bit, appealing.

 

[Economist]

Aside from cultural/socio-economic factors, am I the only thinking that there is also a biological aspect that tends to make people of our race more attractive?

It's possible.

On the other hand, I did hear about a study that found women have a preference to date within their race, although the same study found that men had no preference. The study basically said that men cared about physical attractiveness and didn't discriminate about who was attractive based on race.

 

[opus]

Well, to be technical one needs to separate prejudice, stereotypes, and discrimination. In my Social Psychology class we defined them this way. Stereotypes are broad over-generalizations people place on a group (such as, women are bad drivers, old people are cheap, athletes are dumb, asians are good at math, etc). Prejudice is an emotional dislike of someone for belonging to a group (such as, racism, sexism, etc). Discrimination is a behavior directed at someone for being part of a group (such as, not hiring someone because of race or gender, or not marrying someone because of race, etc). These three things can sometimes go hand-in-hand and sometimes one causes the other, but they're not neccessarily related (you can have elements of one without either of the other two).

I would say that your example is possibly discrimination (if for example you wouldn't date someone for a certain hair or eye color). Unless of course you just not attracted to those eye or hair colors, then I guess it'd be more prejudice.

I agree with you though that prejudice and racism are not the same thing, specifically racism is a type (or subset) of prejudice (but not the other way around).

Racism is prejudice based on racial hierarchies. The problem is that racism is embedded into society. That is, an obvious racial structure is apparent when there is segregation or discrimination. In social psychology terms (since you're taking the class), this is socialization affecting the schemata -- a stereotype.

Not being attracted to a specific eye or hair colour, if conflated with race, denotes a racial hierarchy (say, not liking people with blonde hair). Being attracted to a specific eye or hair colour also denotes a racial hierarchy (liking people specifically with blue eyes). Race is fluid and by no means a "categorization" of simply Asians/Blacks/Whites/Natives/etc... it is full-blown from specific "features" that are correlated with populations to more latent things, such as how a black person "acts". Forming stereotypes means you are making prejudgments and discriminating (since they are value-judgements). You don't have to necessarily actively "discriminate" to be a discriminator -- by simply agreeing with stereotypes, are you discriminating whether explicit involved in "action" or not.

 

[Economist]

Racism is prejudice based on racial hierarchies.

I was saying that racism is a type of prejudice, but prejudice is much broader than just racism (at least the way social psychologists define it).

Not being attracted to a specific eye or hair colour, if conflated with race, denotes a racial hierarchy (say, not liking people with blonde hair). Being attracted to a specific eye or hair colour also denotes a racial hierarchy (liking people specifically with blue eyes).

I'm confused what you're saying? If someone doesn't like a specific physical characteristic that is correlated with race, are you stating that is racism? Also, your racial hierarchy example is confusing me. If an individual has preferences for certain features or even races for that matter, are you calling that a racial hierarchy? If so, then doesn't that just mean that they have preferences for certain features or races over another? I guess I am confused with what you mean by hierarchy, because we were talking about individuals, but I get the sense that you are referring to groups, society, etc, when you use a term like hierarchy.

 

[Astronuc]

Aside from cultural/socio-economic factors, am I the only thinking that there is also a biological aspect that tends to make people of our race more attractive? I certainly feel more attracted physically to women of my race but I have absolutely no racist bias whatsoever. Just in tersm of pure physical attraction, I don't find women of other races attractive. I can see women of other races and realize that they are beautiful in a purely abstract sense but I don't find myself attracted. I am surprised that nobody has mentioned that, maybe I am exceptional in that respect.

That doesn't apply in my case. I've known some very attractive African-American, Hispanic and Asian women, but it were those particular women to whom I was attracted, and their race had nothing to do with it.

Besides physical attributes, I look for personality, intellectual curiosity and intelligence.

I married the first woman who would engage in long conversation with me - particularly on substantive matters.

 

[LydiaAC]

I was not implying that genetics had anything to do with it. In my own personal view, genetics has nothing to do with it. I was just pointing out that there are many socio-economic reasons that would lead to differences amoung race, gender, age, religion, etc, that have nothing to do with prejudice and discrimination.

But, if these differences are not genetically and are caused by socio-economic reasons: why is wrong in trying to eliminate them? What is wrong to look for an economic system in which these differences do not exist?
It is true that differences are spread in nature, but to say that "all what is natural is good" is a fallacy. If people do not like to see any difference, and this is a feasible situation, why not to work toward this goal?
African-American are statistically more prone to engage in criminal activities by a variety of reasons. Assume there could be a genetic component. But this does not mean that African-American are bad. Maybe the Justice system is bad. Discrimination? I think it is possible.
If drugs were legalized, as I think must be done, the proportion of blacks engaged in criminal activities, would reduce drastically. This would happen without blacks changing his behavior, be this social, economic or even genetically related. Drug dealing is a business with a high margin of profits that can be run by people without special training. Adult people can engage in selling and buying on a free market way. Drugs are bad for health, but why must government to babysit people, avoiding they buy drugs? Is it not discrimination against poorly educated people, black or white, to forbid this activity?
What I do not like about capitalists is that they summon genetic differences when they try to point that social programs (who are financed with taxes which they do not want to pay) are not useful to improve society. But, when genetic differences are summoned to point that social change must be necessary for fit needs of very genetically diverse people, they oppose to the idea, because they think that we must accept any social system that results from free market and any non-free-market intervention is bad per se.
By the way, I was strongly opposed to genetic differences but my experience in teaching, in dating, and in trying to make a friend of any people I met, made me doubt. When I read the case of David Reimer, I was finally convinced that natural skills are unevenly distributed among people. It would be nice if these differences were still evenly distributed among races but, if it happened that this is not true (it must be demonstrated, anyway), we would have to manage this situation in a way in which people of any race, and any set of skills, could be happy. If this require to break the law of market, I am in.
Lydia

 

[trainer5]

I am a black woman, and I think it's stupid to assume that black women are open to dating outside of their race just, because black men aren't up to par. I have been dating outside my race since, I first started dating. I never focused on color and it has never been an issue for me. I have met some great white men and black men alike. People keep making these comments about how black men are struggling. I have dated educated black men with their own homes, decent jobs, and open minds. The problem with most black women are that they are willing to settle for the "black guy" off the block just because, he's black. Some women aren't open to dating outside of their race that's their personal preference just like some white men aren't interested in dating outside of their race. However, I can see the beauty in a variety of personalities, skin colors of men. I love educated, hard working, intelligent men regardless of their color. White men approach me much more often than black men therefore, I have dated more white men than black. But, that doesn't mean that it is, because their is some shortage of black men out there. Please bloggers have a more open mind.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I can appreciate your position but wonder about the numbers. From the OP:

The disproportionate representation of black Americans in the U.S. criminal justice system is well documented.(17) Blacks comprise 13 percent of the national population, but 30 percent of people arrested, 41 percent of people in jail,(18) and 49 percent of those in prison.(19) Nine percent of all black adults are under some form of correctional supervision (in jail or prison, on probation or parole), compared to two percent of white adults. (20) One in three black men between the ages of 20 and 29 was either in jail or prison, or on parole or probation in 1995.(21) One in ten black men in their twenties and early thirties is in prison or jail. (22) Thirteen percent of the black adult male population has lost the right to vote because of felony disenfranchisement laws.(23)

 

[GCT]

Here are some of my observations ... not quite certain if this is going to fit in with the thread. FYI I place quotes around the terms " black " and " white " since I believe that they are trashy concepts equivalent to concepts such as good and bad that are introduced to us at a young age ; by the way , both concepts are introduced to children around the same time. I wonder which one is good or bad - " black " or " white " ... anyways ...

There are more " black " men in a relationship with " white " women than " white " men with " black " women

explanation : " black " men seek " white " women more than " black " women seek " white " men. " black " men value " white " women highly and seek them just as frequently as " white men ". " White " men rarely seek " black " women and the same for " black " women with " white " men.

" White " women who are sought by " black " men usually have secondary sexual traits that are relatively more prounounced than their counterparts. These women usually seek the athletic type and black men represent a good deal of athletic talent and thus these " white " women are usually taken in equal proportions by both " black " and " white " men.

The other " white " women are usually not taken as much by " black " men.

 

[Monique]

I can appreciate your position but wonder about the numbers. From the OP:

The disproportionate representation of black Americans in the U.S. criminal justice system is well documented.(17) Blacks comprise 13 percent of the national population, but 30 percent of people arrested, 41 percent of people in jail,(18) and 49 percent of those in prison.(19) Nine percent of all black adults are under some form of correctional supervision (in jail or prison, on probation or parole), compared to two percent of white adults. (20) One in three black men between the ages of 20 and 29 was either in jail or prison, or on parole or probation in 1995.(21) One in ten black men in their twenties and early thirties is in prison or jail. (22) Thirteen percent of the black adult male population has lost the right to vote because of felony disenfranchisement laws.(23)

What are you trying to say with those numbers? There are also many white men in jail, does that make every single white male responsible for that group of people? There are disproportionally more male than females in prison, does that mean females should go and seek homosexual relationships with other females?

 

[Oberst Villa]

What are you trying to say with those numbers? There are also many white men in jail, does that make every single white male responsible for that group of people? There are disproportionally more male than females in prison, does that mean females should go and seek homosexual relationships with other females?

Well, why not ? Personally I definitely consider it a big turn on if a woman is a little bi !

OK, trying to contribute seriously to the thread, I have to confess that I too am a bit puzzled trying to figure out what Ivan Seeking wants to say. I'd just like to draw you attention to the fact that he has a qoute from Colin Powell in his sig. So it is probably save to say that bashing black people is not his intention...

 

[Astronuc]

Umm - one's partner is a simply matter of personal preference and opportunity. Race, ethnicity, national origin are incidental, but perhaps some individuals develop a preference for one or more of those characteristics.

 

[marcus]

Well, why not ? Personally I definitely consider it a big turn on if a woman is a little bi !

OK, trying to contribute seriously to the thread, I have to confess that I too am a bit puzzled trying to figure out what Ivan Seeking wants to say. I'd just like to draw you attention to the fact that he has a qoute from Colin Powell in his sig. So it is probably save to say that bashing black people is not his intention...

Great sig quote, Ivan!
"What is the greatest threat facing us now? People will say it's terrorism. But are there any terrorists in the world who can change the American way of life or our political system? No... Only we can change ourselves. So what is the great threat we are facing?" - Colin Powell

The threat is American Facism, baby. The sheepification of the electorate. The erosion of democracy and the growth of big media mind control. You said it Colin! Beautiful! That's my kind of miliary hero, I'll tell you.

I want that Colin quote. But I have to keep links to super-useful QG and cosmo text in my sig as a resource.
======================

so what does Ivan mean by his Opener Post? Colonel Pancho you confess that you too are a bit puzzled.
Come on. He is mixing in some sex interest in order to rivet our attention on some serious social headaches: crime demographics, arrest and conviction demographics, prison demographics.
Those issues are so unwelcome and so difficult to think about constructively that the only way he can get an active thread going is by wafting the perfumed hanky of a little vicarious excitement in with the seriousness. Black women-White men is a non-issue. The issue is why so many black guys in jail. Is it genetic? Is it the System? How do you identify the factors. Where do you place the blame. What's the remedy? and so forth. Ivan drops a bomb with some irrelevant sexy tattoos on it.

 

[vociferous]

There are some interesting studies that I have seen about interracial relationships.

Firstly, it seems that men of all races are pretty colorblind, but certainly not blind, as physical attractiveness is their primary motivation, regardless of race or ethnicity (this is based on a study conducted in Manhattan, so it could be slightly different in Alabama).

Women, on the other hand, all prefer to date within their race, except for Asian women. Black women have a strong preference for black men. Hispanic and non Hispanic white women have a moderate preference for dating within their own race/ethnicity.

Asian men and black women are the most rare interracial pairing. I forget what the most common was, but I believe it was Asian women and white men.

 

[GCT]

Asian men and black women are the most rare interracial pairing. I forget what the most common was, but I believe it was Asian women and white men.

I wonder how the latter fares with the pairing between " black " men and " white " women considering the fact that pure " black " men are rare - pure African genes - their first names may be Teyshawn however their last names are always Smith and the like.

 

[marcus]

Who the hoot cares who dates whom?
or who has sex with whom?
Ivan started this thread about prison demographics.
It represents a problem.
What can be done? Try being creative. Get your head out of the box.

EDIT: not directed at you GCT, didn't see your post. No one in particular, self included.

 

[LydiaAC]

I am a black woman, and I think it's stupid to assume that black women are open to dating outside of their race just, because black men aren't up to par. I have been dating outside my race since, I first started dating. I never focused on color and it has never been an issue for me. I have met some great white men and black men alike. People keep making these comments about how black men are struggling. I have dated educated black men with their own homes, decent jobs, and open minds. The problem with most black women are that they are willing to settle for the "black guy" off the block just because, he's black. Some women aren't open to dating outside of their race that's their personal preference just like some white men aren't interested in dating outside of their race. However, I can see the beauty in a variety of personalities, skin colors of men. I love educated, hard working, intelligent men regardless of their color. White men approach me much more often than black men therefore, I have dated more white men than black. But, that doesn't mean that it is, because their is some shortage of black men out there. Please bloggers have a more open mind.

Hello Trainer5:
What it is happening in this thread is that we are trying to treat a social situation as a scientific problem. When doing so, it is very easy to offend people.
The argued reason for black women dating white men could be right or wrong. If you see the case for this explanation excessively weak, it is natural that you want to call it absurd or even stupid, but this is only a very emotional way to say "wrong".
You talk us about your personal experience and that is very interesting because experience is the base of knowledge. However, social trends cannot be evaluated only in the basis of one personal experience.
That is the nerd's dilemma. Must I use the scientific method only to understand the physical world but not the social world? I do not think so. Social problems are so great that they deserve to be treated with the best method, the scientific method.
The problem is that the scientific method requires to set hypothesis, which not all of them would be good ones. We must try and fail. We could say a lot of stupidities in our search for an answer. Nevertheless, to be creative and give a chance to a lot of different possibilities is what makes an "open mind", not the opposite.
LydiaAC