Unleashing the Power of the Universe: The Mystery of Universal Energy

In summary: It's incredibly unlikely. Pure speculation with nothing approaching a realistic model, and some good reasons to expect... well, the opposite.
  • #1
NextFeynman
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Seeing as energy is conserved throughout the universe, did all the energy of the universe begin at the same time as our universe?
 
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  • #2
I THINK it works like this: conservation of energy, as far as is presently known, is a local phenomenon and may not hold across cosmological distances, so conservation of energy throughout even the observable universe is unknown, and certainly is unknown throughout the entire universe.
 
  • #3
Ordinary matter, dark matter, and ordinary energy are conserved, although interchangeable. Dark energy is increasing with the expansion of the universe.

Note: this is my understanding - I could be wrong.
 
  • #4
So, would it be safe to assume that the universe is gaining energy as it expands or would it be impossible to tell
 
  • #5
NextFeynman said:
So, would it be safe to assume that the universe is gaining energy as it expands or would it be impossible to tell

Yes, so much so that I have heard one theory, I think posted here on this forum, that the universe moves towards a singularity of infinite energy density because of the exponential overall increase in dark energy. I have no idea how solid that theory is.
 
  • #6
mathman said:
Ordinary matter, dark matter, and ordinary energy are conserved, although interchangeable. Dark energy is increasing with the expansion of the universe.

Note: this is my understanding - I could be wrong.

I believe light loses energy over time due to redshift from expansion.
 
  • #7
Drakkith said:
I believe light loses energy over time due to redshift from expansion.

Yeah, it's been making me a little tired too.
 
  • #8
phinds said:
Yeah, it's been making me a little tired too.

Have you been expanding recently Phinds?
 
  • #9
Drakkith said:
Have you been expanding recently Phinds?

Absolutely, and with Thanksgiving on a couple days away I fear further expansion. :smile:
 
  • #10
phinds said:
Absolutely, and with Thanksgiving on a couple days away I fear further expansion. :smile:

Have some turkey for me, as I fear I will not have the opportunity to enjoy any.
 
  • #11
Drakkith said:
Have some turkey for me, as I fear I will not have the opportunity to enjoy any.

Why? I thought they served turkey to the inmates. You mean it's the same old prison food even on Thanksgiving?
 
  • #12
Michio says that the strings of M-Theory vibrate throughout 11 dimensional hyperspace, he also says that the dimensions are curled up so tiny we can't see them, so when our universe first started, by whatever means, 3 of the ten spatial dimensions "popped" out while the other 7 stayed tucked away, and if the universe is getting larger through dark energy couldn't dark energy be the strings blowing up three dimensions of the ten that are tucked into them?
 
  • #13
Dont let him fool you, phinds, they hand out turkey 'nuggets' like candy in the joint over the holidays.
 
  • #14
NextFeynman said:
Michio says that the strings of M-Theory vibrate throughout 11 dimensional hyperspace, he also says that the dimensions are curled up so tiny we can't see them, so when our universe first started, by whatever means, 3 of the ten spatial dimensions "popped" out while the other 7 stayed tucked away, and if the universe is getting larger through dark energy couldn't dark energy be the strings blowing up three dimensions of the ten that are tucked into them?

Interesting but fanciful speculation. Do you have any references to mainstream physics discussing that? If not, it is against forum rules (unsubstantiated personal speculation).

EDIT: I mean OTHER than TV personalities (Kaku USED to be a serious physicist but is now a popularizer of the worst sort)
 
  • #15
NextFeynman said:
Michio says that the strings of M-Theory vibrate throughout 11 dimensional hyperspace, he also says that the dimensions are curled up so tiny we can't see them, so when our universe first started, by whatever means, 3 of the ten spatial dimensions "popped" out while the other 7 stayed tucked away, and if the universe is getting larger through dark energy couldn't dark energy be the strings blowing up three dimensions of the ten that are tucked into them?
Unfortunately, Dr. Kaku frequently speaks of M-theory as if it were Newtons theory of gravity - well accepted and revered by mainstream science. It is not. But, he does create this impression with lay people via this questionable tactic.
 
  • #16
Sorry for the speculation, just wondering if It could be plausible.
 
  • #17
NextFeynman said:
Sorry for the speculation, just wondering if It could be plausible.

As I said, it IS an interesting speculation but the mods are pretty strict, and I believe with excellent reason, about keeping this forum devoted to established science.
 
  • #18
The mods tend to be fairly even handed so long as we stay scientific.
 
  • #19
phinds said:
Yes, so much so that I have heard one theory, I think posted here on this forum, that the universe moves towards a singularity of infinite energy density because of the exponential overall increase in dark energy. I have no idea how solid that theory is.
It's incredibly unlikely. Pure speculation with nothing approaching a realistic model, and some good reasons to expect it's impossible.
 
  • #20
Chalnoth said:
It's incredibly unlikely. Pure speculation with nothing approaching a realistic model, and some good reasons to expect it's impossible.

Thanks. Yeah, it sounded pretty weird to me.
 
  • #21
NextFeynman said:
Seeing as energy is conserved throughout the universe, did all the energy of the universe begin at the same time as our universe?
Energy isn't conserved in General Relativity. Here's a good, detailed look if you're interested:
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/energy_gr.html

The short version is that within General Relativity, there simply isn't any unique way of defining overall energy. And if there isn't a unique way of defining it, there isn't a way of conserving it (because somebody else could just come up with a different definition that isn't conserved).

If we take what we humans generally consider the most natural definition of overall energy, then the overall energy of various components of the universe do change in time, and the total is not conserved.

1. The total energy in light is decreasing inversely with the expansion. That is, if the average distance between galaxies doubles, the total energy in light in a given expanding volume is cut in half. In the early universe, this was the dominant form of energy, and now is only a tiny fraction.
2. The total energy in normal and dark matter stays nearly constant. The kinetic and local gravitational potential energy of normal and dark matter reduces slowly, but this is a small fraction of the mass energy anyway. Until relatively recently, this was the dominant form of energy in the universe.
3. The total energy in dark energy is increasing rapidly with the expansion: the density remains constant (or very nearly constant), so that if you double the average distance between galaxies, the energy in an expanding volume multiplies by a factor of eight (2*2*2, one for each direction of space). This energy density is very low, so until recently it didn't mean much. But today it makes up the majority of the density in the universe. In the far future, the growth of energy in dark energy will dominate everything else: effectively the universe will be empty except for the dark energy (the amount of time this takes is tremendous, however. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_an_expanding_universe).

Edit: Incidentally, it's quite possible (given certain other conditions) to define a global gravitational potential energy which exactly cancels the total energy in the rest of the universe, leading to a total energy of precisely zero for all time.
 
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  • #22
At the beginning of our universe, could the total energy of the universe be greater than or equal to the dark energy at that time?
 
  • #23
NextFeynman said:
At the beginning of our universe, could the total energy of the universe be greater than or equal to the dark energy at that time?
Early on, shortly after inflation ended, dark energy was a minuscule fraction of the total energy (inflation itself acted much like a different sort of dark energy, with much higher density).
 
  • #24
So could dark energy be the same amount of energy since the start of the universe, and its just spreading more space out ever since then.
 
  • #25
NextFeynman said:
So could dark energy be the same amount of energy since the start of the universe, and its just spreading more space out ever since then.
The same amount? No. Dark energy doesn't spread out: it always remains at approximately the same energy density. So as dark energy fills more space, the total energy increases (at least considering the way it's usually looked at).
 
  • #26
Could dark energy be expanding the universe at the same rate over the entire existence of the universe
 
  • #27
NextFeynman said:
Could dark energy be expanding the universe at the same rate over the entire existence of the universe

No, the expansion is ACCELERATING, not staying the same --- it is changing all the time and always has been and always will be.
 
  • #28
How do we know that dark energy hasn't been expanding the universe at the same rate? If dark energy has been expanding space since the beginning it is going to have more and more space to create. So couldn't dark energy be the creation of the three dimensional space we observe?
 
  • #29
Rather than continuing to ask serial speculative questions about dark energy, based only on how you think it MIGHT work, how about you go to the internet and fiind a good discourse on dark energy, read it, and then ask questions if there are still things you don't understand.
 
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  • #30
NextFeynman said:
How do we know that dark energy hasn't been expanding the universe at the same rate? If dark energy has been expanding space since the beginning it is going to have more and more space to create. So couldn't dark energy be the creation of the three dimensional space we observe?

Because that isn't how we define dark energy. And you are asking about the "creation of space". Such a thing may not even make sense. Is space even anything? Such a question is not answerable at this time. Our definition of space and dimensions is for another thread, but I will say that dark energy is not related to them in the way you are imagining. There have been several threads asking about what space is and I'm sure using the Search button at the top of the page will allow you to find them.
 
  • #31
Drakkith said:
I believe light loses energy over time due to redshift from expansion.

I thought that total energy was conserved. Energy density of radiation decreases because the volume of the universe increases. Energy density times volume is a constant, as far as I know in a finite Universe. In an infinite Universe then energy density divided by matter density would be a constant.
 
  • #32
ImaLooser said:
I thought that total energy was conserved. Energy density of radiation decreases because the volume of the universe increases. Energy density times volume is a constant, as far as I know in a finite Universe. In an infinite Universe then energy density divided by matter density would be a constant.
Nope. See my first post in this thread.
 
  • #33
Keep in mind some forms of energy are positive, and others [e.g., gravity] are considered negative. At the moment, negative energy appears to dominate the universe.
 

1. What is universal energy?

Universal energy refers to the energy that is present throughout the entire universe and is believed to be the source of all life and creation. It is also known as cosmic energy, life force, or prana in different cultures and belief systems.

2. How can we tap into the power of universal energy?

There are various ways to tap into the power of universal energy, such as through meditation, mindfulness practices, connecting with nature, and aligning our thoughts and actions with positive intentions. It is also important to have an open and receptive mindset to allow the flow of universal energy.

3. What are the benefits of harnessing universal energy?

Harnessing universal energy can bring numerous benefits, including increased physical and mental well-being, improved intuition and creativity, enhanced spiritual growth, and a deeper connection with the universe and all living beings. It can also help to manifest our desires and bring more abundance into our lives.

4. Is there scientific evidence for the existence of universal energy?

While there is no direct scientific evidence for the existence of universal energy, many scientific theories and studies support the concept. For example, quantum physics suggests that everything in the universe is made up of energy, and the law of conservation of energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed.

5. Can anyone access the power of universal energy?

Yes, anyone can access the power of universal energy as it is present in all living beings and the universe itself. However, it requires a willingness to learn and practice techniques to connect with this energy. It is also important to have a positive and open mindset to fully tap into its potential.

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