- #106
turbo
Gold Member
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Can Romney survive tonight's debate? I generally don't watch these, but I may tonight.
Not a bad analysis. Both have so much baggage and negatives that Obama can come out of this looking pretty good.AlephZero said:This could turn into a war of attrition between the anybody-but-MR and anybody-but-NG campaigns, and that won't do Obama any harm at all IMO.
Oltz said:http://mittromney.com/sites/default/files/shared/BelieveInAmerica-PlanForJobsAndEconomicGrowth-Full.pdf
59 Policy Proposals That Will Get America Back To Work
1. Maintain current tax rates on personal income
2. Maintain current tax rates on interest, dividends, and capital gains
3. Eliminate taxes for taxpayers with AGI below $200,000 on interest, dividends, and capital gains
4. Eliminate the death tax
5. Pursue a conservative overhaul of the tax system over the long term that includes lower,
flatter rates on a broader base
6. Reduce corporate income tax rate to 25 percent
7. Pursue transition from “worldwide” to “territorial” system for corporate taxation
8. Repeal Obamacare
9. Repeal Dodd-Frank and replace with streamlined, modern regulatory framework
10. Amend Sarbanes-Oxley to relieve mid-size companies from onerous requirements
11. Ensure that environmental laws properly account for cost in regulatory process
12 Provide multi-year lead times before companies must come into compliance with
onerous new environmental regulations
13. Initiate review and elimination of all Obama-era regulations that unduly burden the economy
14. Impose a regulatory cap of zero dollars on all federal agencies
15. Require congressional approval of all new “major” regulations
16. Reform legal liability system to prevent spurious litigation
17. Implement agreements with Colombia, Panama, and South Korea
18. Reinstate the president’s Trade Promotion Authority
19. Complete negotiations for the Trans-Pacific Partnership
20. Pursue new trade agreements with nations committed to free enterprise and open markets
21. Create the Reagan Economic Zone
22. Increase CBP resources to prevent the illegal entry of goods into our market
23. Increase USTR resources to pursue and support litigation against unfair trade practices
24. Use unilateral and multilateral punitive measures to deter unfair Chinese practices
25. Designate China a currency manipulator and impose countervailing duties
26. Discontinue U.S. government procurement from China until China commits to GPA
27. Establish fixed timetables for all resource development approvals
28. Create one-stop shop to streamline permitting process for approval of common activities
29. Implement fast-track procedures for companies with established safety records to conduct
pre-approved activities in pre-approved areas
30. Amend Clean Air Act to exclude carbon dioxide from its purview
31. Expand NRC capabilities for approval of additional nuclear reactor designs
32. Streamline NRC processes to ensure that licensing decisions for reactors on or adjacent to
approved sites, using approved designs, are complete within two years
33. Conduct comprehensive survey of America’s energy reserves
34. Open America’s energy reserves for development
35. Expand opportunities for U.S. resource developers to forge partnerships with neighboring countries
36 Support construction of pipelines to bring Canadian oil to the United States
37. Prevent overregulation of shale gas development and extraction
38 Concentrate alternative energy funding on basic research
39. Utilize long-term, apolitical funding mechanisms like ARPA-E for basic research
40. Appoint to the NLRB experienced individuals with respect for the rule of law
41. Amend NLRA to explicitly protect the right of business owners to allocate their capital as they see fit
42. Amend NLRA to guarantee the secret ballot in every union certification election
43. Amend NLRA to guarantee that all pre-election campaigns last at least one month
44. Support states in pursuing Right-to-Work laws
45. Prohibit the use for political purposes of funds automatically deducted from worker paychecks
46. Reverse executive orders issued by President Obama that tilt the playing field toward organized labor
47. Eliminate redundancy in federal retraining programs by consolidating programs and funding streams,
centering as much activity as possible in a single agency
48. Give states authority to manage retraining programs by block granting federal funds
49. Facilitate the creation of Personal Reemployment Accounts
50. Encourage greater private sector involvement in retraining programs
51. Raise visa caps for highly skilled workers
52. Grant permanent residency to eligible graduates with advanced degrees in math, science,
and engineering
53. Immediately cut non-security discretionary spending by 5 percent
54. Reform and restructure Medicaid as block grant to states
55. Align wages and benefits of government workers with market rates
56. Reduce federal workforce by 10 percent via attrition
57. Cap federal spending at 20 percent of GDP
58. Undertake fundamental restructuring of government programs and services
59. Pursue a Balanced Budget Amendment
I can make a list too, anyone can, how will these be done and why, what are the pros and cons, and can or should they be done and how will each one of these supposedly help the mid to lower classes? Obviously I don't see a lot of these as being good for anyone but the rich and the business owners. Repeal the death tax? Yeah, that's going to help me...NOT.rhody said:Nice find Oltz, a pithy summary of his positions on everything that matters to him. If I could listen to a speech from each of the candidates like this addressing each item, I might be drawn into the political process, without it I am afraid that I will be a lurker at the fringe.
How many members here are planning to inherit more than $5 million?For deaths occurring in 2011, up to $5,000,000 can be passed from an individual upon his or her death without incurring federal estate tax.[2]
Evo said:I can make a list too, anyone can, how will these be done and why, what are the pros and cons, and can or should they be done and how will each one of these supposedly help the mid to lower classes? Obviously I don't see a lot of these as being good for anyone but the rich and the business owners. Repeal the death tax? Yeah, that's going to help me...NOT. How many members here are planning to inherit more than $5 million?
I personally disagree with half of that list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States
It's easy to make bullet-point lists with no details. It's also easy for the "faithful" to fall in behind you and read their own wishes and preconceptions into each of the points. Until perceptive people start tearing apart that list and asking for details, Romney is off-the-hook as an "idea man". I'm not surprised that his list is so long and wide-ranging. Can't really hurt him in the debates.Evo said:I can make a list too, anyone can, how will these be done and why, what are the pros and cons, and can or should they be done and how will each one of these supposedly help the mid to lower classes?
turbo said:Also, has anybody bothered to notice that the President can't legislate?
Yeah, Romney's definitely a status quo guy. Not that that's entirely bad. But it isn't particularly inspiring, and doesn't seem to offer any real improvements that would benefit the majority of Americans.Evo said:... I don't see a lot of these as being good for anyone but the rich and the business owners. ...
Which part? The "another white collar criminal" part is quite a stretch from "most legally thorny", which is all the article says. I'd say gravennewworld has come nowhere close to the burden of proof required to make such a claim.Evo said:Do you have anything that shows it's not true?
Evo said:I can make a list too, anyone can, how will these be done and why, what are the pros and cons, and can or should they be done and how will each one of these supposedly help the mid to lower classes? Obviously I don't see a lot of these as being good for anyone but the rich and the business owners. Repeal the death tax? Yeah, that's going to help me...NOT. How many members here are planning to inherit more than $5 million?
I personally disagree with half of that list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States
Rob D said:Hello...Occam here...could it be because it isn't true?
turbo said:^ People who have been around long enough to see companies destroyed when their pension funds were supposedly "overfunded" and were taken over, and lost their jobs due to predatory tactics used by "venture" capitalists may never be persuaded to pull the lever for Mitt. He is out-of-touch with voters, IMO, and older voters especially. Too many of us have been on the receiving end of his brand of capitalism. He seems like an earnest and pleasant guy, but I think his past will haunt him. That leaves Gingrich as the "inevitable" candidate and he has even more personal (and belt-way) baggage to be seriously considered in the general election.
of which half actually went to the incredibly wealthy Mormon Church, not really a charity, IMO, but did lower his taxes.mheslep said:On the tax question I think Romney should say,
"I paid $3 million in taxes in 2010."
In answer to follow up questions about percentages, he should say,
"I paid $3 million in taxes in 2010. I gave away another $3 million in charitable donations in 2010"
I agree. So, I wonder if a reasonable, critically thinking person can be a Christian, or a Muslim, or a Mormon, or ... whatever.skeptic2 said:Why single out Mormons? The same question can be asked of any religion.
ThomasT said:I agree. So, I wonder if a reasonable, critically thinking person can be a Christian, or a Muslim, or a Mormon, or ... whatever.
Evo that is the Point right now you are taxed on ALL inheritance
I know a fam ily who ran a Bakery they had roughly 2 Million in equipment and property involved in the bussiness. The Father passed suddenly and they litterally had to sell off a 30% interest in the family bussness to pay the inheritance tax on the company or fold.
Well, afaik, we have no way of knowing for sure. Therefore, I can't vote for Romney, because he's either an adherent to what I consider to be a nonsensical religion, or he's lying.Rob D said:Your point hinges on our individual core beliefs or lack thereof but I must agree in that I tend to see very religious people as delusional or even worse dishonest. However, and despite the tithe thing (it is after all only money) I do not think that Romney is a deeply religious man.
At least I hope that he is not.
RD
skeptic2 said:Why single out Mormons? The same question can be asked of any religion.
ThomasT said:I agree. So, I wonder if a reasonable, critically thinking person can be a Christian, or a Muslim, or a Mormon, or ... whatever.
Rob D said:Your point hinges on our individual core beliefs or lack thereof, which is deeply private, but I must agree with you in that I tend to see very religious people as delusional or even worse dishonest. However, and despite the tithe thing (it is after all only money) I do not think that Romney is a deeply religious man.
At least I hope that he is not.
RD
I think that, wrt theistic religions, to a certain extent, it does.daveb said:... being religious doesn't necessitate non-critical thinking.
Not only incompetent, but inept. A long-running business should have had depreciated its property, equipment, etc over the years, greatly simplifying the process of preparing it for purposes of inheritance.ParticleGrl said:This doesn't make much sense- their estate planner must have been horribly incompetent. On top of the fact that you value their estate as below the exemption (so there wouldn't have been tax anyway), there are lots of games that can be played with property (tax free gifts, property left to the spouse, etc).
ThomasT said:I think that, wrt theistic religions, to a certain extent, it does.
Well, we don't want to get too far off topic here. But I'll just say that I don't know of any theistic religions that value rational thought and critical thinking over church dogma. You can PM me with a reply to this, so as not to sidetrack the thread.daveb said:To some yes, but I would apply it to persons rather than religions (well there are probably exceptions to that, which I can't mention due to pf rules). However, there are theistic religions that believe in rational thought and critical thinking.
I agree with this. Imo, any clearly thinking person is going to minimize his debt to the republic. But I maintain that the tax code favors the rich, and that no major party candidate is likely to oppose that status quo.daveb said:Back to Romney and his taxes, if he (or anyone) running for President didn't take advantage of every tax break they legally could, I would say that negates their ability to be a president since I want them to be as efficient as legally possible in the execution of the duties of office (the assumption being they weren't as efficient as possible in paying taxes). This is why I find the argument by some of "If Buffet thinks he paid too little taxes then he should write a check to the government" to be completely irrelevant and even a littel ignorant of the underlying argument. I would say, "If Buffet thinks he paid too little in taxes, then he should change the tax code" which is kind of what he is trying to do (by supporting politicians who want to change the code in the way he thinks it should be). It also works in reverse (if you think you're paying too much, support politicians who will change it in your favor).
So I don't fault him for paying so little - it is a question of the tax code.
daveb said:Not to hijack the thread, but I would like to point out that the Dalia Lama would probably be considered "deeply religious" - so being religios doesn't necessitate non-critical thinking.
daveb said:Back to Romney and his taxes, if he (or anyone) running for President didn't take advantage of every tax break they legally could, I would say that negates their ability to be a president since I want them to be as efficient as legally possible in the execution of the duties of office (the assumption being they weren't as efficient as possible in paying taxes). This is why I find the argument by some of "If Buffet thinks he paid too little taxes then he should write a check to the government" to be completely irrelevant and even a littel ignorant of the underlying argument. I would say, "If Buffet thinks he paid too little in taxes, then he should change the tax code" which is kind of what he is trying to do (by supporting politicians who want to change the code in the way he thinks it should be). It also works in reverse (if you think you're paying too much, support politicians who will change it in your favor).
So I don't fault him for paying so little - it is a question of the tax code.
Angry Citizen said:In a way I agree with this, but in another way I don't. Romney is particularly disgusting not because he pays low taxes, but because of his job description which just so happens to entail paying low taxes. This guy is the best example possible of the excesses and inadequacies of capitalism. This guy came from rich parents, led companies in predatory capitalist ventures, and then pats himself and other rich people on the back for supposedly being better than the peons who can't game the system like him.
The candidates fielded this election by the Republican Party are without a doubt the sorriest group of people I've ever seen, and I can't help but pity anyone who would actually vote for one of them. At least Rockefeller Republicans were respectable, even if I disagreed with them...
ROmney did come from rich parents, he also donated his whole inheritance to a university.
He lead his company in taking over failing companies, and trying to turn them around
He is a shining example of what can happen to each of us in the US with hard work and dedication.
This seems to me to be true to a certain extent. But then I do agree with Angry Citizen that vulture capitalism, like what wild vultures do, is essentially risk free ... as long as one has the stomach for it.Jimmy Snyder said:Vulture capitalism works the same way real vultures work. They don't kill, they eat dead carcasses. They play an essential role in the ecosystem. The idea that they take things of value and trash them is childish.
ThomasT said:This seems to me to be true to a certain extent. But then I do agree with Angry Citizen that vulture capitalism, like what wild vultures do, is essentially risk free ... as long as one has the stomach for it.
But, while I don't want to disparage Romney because he was born into privilege and learned to effectively manipulate the system to his advantage, I don't want a person like Romney to be the chief administrator of the country. He represents, and will act in behalf of, the status quo. So, if the goal is to improve America for most Americans, then Romney isn't, imo, a good choice.
Rob D said:I'm afraid that you are allowing a rather glaring misconception to sneak into your thesis and that is the apparent belief that a "man of the people" will continue to pursue altruism and not descend into avarice and self promotion. We are currently in the midst of just such an experiment. How's that working out for you?
Mitt Romney is a Republican politician who has held various positions in the government, including serving as the Governor of Massachusetts from 2003 to 2007. He is known for his conservative beliefs and has taken stances on issues such as healthcare, immigration, and the economy.
Mitt Romney has been involved in politics for several decades and his candidacy has evolved over time. He first ran for president in 2008 and then again in 2012, ultimately becoming the Republican nominee. Since then, he has continued to be involved in politics, endorsing and campaigning for other candidates and speaking out on current issues.
Some criticisms of Mitt Romney's candidacy include his changing stance on certain issues, such as healthcare, and his perceived lack of authenticity. He has also faced criticism for his wealth and business background, with some questioning his ability to relate to and understand the struggles of everyday Americans.
Mitt Romney's candidacy has had a significant impact on the Republican party. He has helped to shape the party's platform and has been a prominent figure in the party's efforts to win elections. His candidacy has also sparked debates and discussions within the party about its direction and values.
There are several potential outcomes of Mitt Romney's candidacy. If he were to win the election, he would become the President of the United States and would have the opportunity to implement his policies and agenda. If he were to lose, he could continue to be involved in politics in other ways or may choose to retire from public life. Additionally, his candidacy could have lasting effects on the Republican party and the political landscape as a whole.