Why do we care if we offend people?

[Pengwuino]

I'm the type of person who rarely gets offended by anything. I'm also a person who can see "how" someone can be offended over various things. However, I put "how" in quotation marks because I've never been entirely sure how people are offended. Now, there are of course derogatory words and sayings that are fairly obvious. On the other hand, there are things that I simply do not get. For example, I'm a teaching assistant, and I "know" I'm not suppose to tell a student that they need to stop complaining because they're acting like a child if they whine about a grade because I'll "offend" them. As an aside, no one EVER complains to me about a grade. NEVER. I don't know why. Everyone else says they have tons of complaints. I must give off that "if you complain, you'll regret it more than anything you've ever regretted in your life" vibe. But anyhow, back on topic. So as a teaching assistant (and I'm sure you can think of many examples in your profession), you're not suppose to offend students. Why not?

Usually when there is an opportunity to offend someone, it is because the person has done something that requires a possibly offensive response. Then there are other cases (maybe this is just so pervasive because I live in California) where simply an action might offend someone. I can't dare speak about my beliefs unless I'm surrounded by people who agree with my beliefs even more than I do because I've been trained to believe that speaking my beliefs when people who disagree are around is offensive and thus, something to be avoided.

What is this nonsense I have been trained to believe in? Why do people get offended over anything? What does it even feel like to be offended? To me, when people say stuff that is suppose to be offensive, I just hear it as someone saying something silly like "1 + 1 is 3". Or I think "this person has every right to say whatever the hell he wants to say, no matter how stupid I think it is and no matter how stupid it makes him seem". I just don't get it.

 

[Hepth]

I agree with you for the most part. Even the TA stuff (I was a TA up until about 2 years ago) and I had the same thing, everyone else complained that their students we always complaining about grades. My students, even the ones with C's loved me because I was FAIR.

I also have no idea what it's like to be offended(by most things). I know when people say things that make me feel uncomfortable, I feel uncomfortable, but I wouldn't call it offensive (bad jokes by a friend or jokes at my expense). If someone tries to criticize anything I DO (physics/computers/nerdy stuff) or AM, I sort of chalk it up to their ignorance and usually end up feeling better about myself for not being like them.

I avoid certain topics as if they may cause someone duress (talking about death when their parent died recently, etc) or if it may embarrass them.

Ohh, I've come across one you can probably relate to, as I can to. Imagine a superior in your school (say, your adviser) : "Pengquino, we need the minimum of this function, do you know how to do that?" I would be offended. I would think "How the hell do you think I've made it this far without knowing basic Calculus."

That's the only think I think I would be truly offended by, those that are supposed to know you calling your intelligence or knowledge into question.

Or maybe a close friend that you've known for 20 years not knowing how to spell your last name.

Things that unexpectedly call into question your self-worth; those are what I am offended by.

 

[radou]

Then there are other cases (maybe this is just so pervasive because I live in California) where simply an action might offend someone. I can't dare speak about my beliefs unless I'm surrounded by people who agree with my beliefs even more than I do because I've been trained to believe that speaking my beliefs when people who disagree are around is offensive and thus, something to be avoided.

This is called political correctness, and it truly sucks.

 

[chiro]

Guilt is a funny mechanism as the tool of social control. Without it we'd all probably speak our mind, and do whatever the hell we wanted, but alas that's not the way it turned out (for most of us).

 

[caljuice]

I always thoguht people don't want to offend people because nobody likes conflict. You're viewed as a jerk if you start conflicts, so nobody will like you. Everyone wants to be loved.

The first thing I thought about when I saw this thread was

 

[Nicodemus]

I think taking offense is a way of warning someone that you're approaching violence. I don't know if that's still the point, but it makes sense as an emergent property that warning displays in animals are preferable to violence in slow-breeding animals. I think a booby that's attracted or repelled by another booby's red throat-sac, is probably the animals equivalent of taking offense.

To me, not being offended is a plus, but being unable to sense what will offend another is crippling. I think for most, one informs the other, but within more intellectual circles you have people trying to get OVER their gut reactions.

 

[Nicodemus]

Guilt is a funny mechanism as the tool of social control. Without it we'd all probably speak our mind, and do whatever the hell we wanted, but alas that's not the way it turned out (for most of us).

I think shame plays that role, because guilt requires that you think or do something first. Shame is far more powerful, where guilt can just be factual: you are guilty of a crime.

 

[JaredJames]

Completely agree pengwuino.

I don't get offended often, you really have to go out of your way to say something strong to get to me.

A post above is correct, for the most part it is political correctness rubbish. I agree there are some times that you need to be careful with your words, but aside from that I try to speak my mind. The way I look at it, I'm not there to tip toe around people and I personally prefer people to be straight with me.

If you ask for an opinion/response, don't be offended when it isn't what you were hoping for. I'm not here to blow smoke.

 

[Mkorr]

People tend to conflate their beliefs with their identity, and criticisms of beliefs is interpreted as an attack on that persons identity. This seems likely for things like religion and politics, where you not only subscribe to beliefs inherent in X-ism beliefs, you become an X-ist.

I think I have a good enough separation between my identity and my beliefs or arguments that I put forward that I rarely get offended.

 

[Zarqon]

I'm guessing that the origin of getting offended is a type of reflex for defending ones social status. If someone is publicly insulting you or questioning your believes, it is probably important to many to defend against the attack so that the other people in their surroundings does not change the way they look at them in a negative way, which they may if accusations are left unanswered and undisputed. While it may require more brain activity to formulate a defense I'm guessing "getting offended" may be the initial reflexive response with the purpose of meeting accusations immediately.

I guess it makes sense then that people who are a part of environments where (in some sense unmerited) social status is especially important, like gangs or when you're a teenager, are much more prone to get offended. Whereas we "enlightened" people who are confident in our status are less prone to get offended

 

[Kawakaze]

I never really gave it much thought. I am honest and fair, and try not to insult or hurt feelings, but I am not dancing on eggshells for anyone, if they don't like it, well, what can I do. If you sugar coat everything and allow yourself to be manipulated by guilt, you certainly arent helping anyone. Political correctness is a load of rubbish too.

 

[Nicodemus]

At its most basic level, offending someone is about creating distance between the two of you.

 

[JaredJames]

At its most basic level, offending someone is about creating distance between the two of you.

Well that depends on whether or not you intend to be offensive.

What I say and what someone hears are two different things.

 

[Dembadon]

Completely agree pengwuino.

I don't get offended often, you really have to go out of your way to say something strong to get to me.

A post above is correct, for the most part it is political correctness rubbish. I agree there are some times that you need to be careful with your words, but aside from that I try to speak my mind. The way I look at it, I'm not there to tip toe around people and I personally prefer people to be straight with me.

If you ask for an opinion/response, don't be offended when it isn't what you were hoping for. I'm not here to blow smoke.

I'm glad you mention that there can be a balance, because being straight with someone doesn't mean you have to be offensive.

In other words, it is often possible to be open and honest when expressing your opinions without being offensive. We have an in-law who constantly speaks his mind with zero tact -- he's an extremely unpleasant person to be around.

That said, some people look for reasons to be offended; I don't lose sleep over those types.

 

[JaredJames]

I'm glad you mention that there can be a balance, because being straight with someone doesn't mean you have to be offensive.

In other words, it is often possible to be open and honest when expressing your opinions without being offensive. We have an in-law who constantly speaks his mind with zero tact -- he's an extremely unpleasant person to be around.

Exactly. Telling someone "I think you sleep around too much" isn't the same as saying "you're a slut". Even if they mean the same thing. In one case you're trying to be honest with someone in the other you're just going for offensive.

Unless you're going for shock and awe (everything else failed to get through) then the latter is not the best way to express yourself as it is going for offensive (true or not).

Like I said, I won't tip toe around an issue with people but that doesn't mean I'll just launch into verbal assault.

That said, some people look for reasons to be offended; I don't lose sleep over those types.

These are people I bid good day to and move on.

 

[Nicodemus]

Well that depends on whether or not you intend to be offensive.

What I say and what someone hears are two different things.

I'm not making a value judgement, or saying that it's a fault issue. The reality is that when someone is offended, they retreat. They may retreat behind a hail of angry words, but above all they distance themselves from you. If you INTENDED to offend the person, it's going to be worse, but intent or not the results are the same.

If you say, "I like bacon crispy, not floppy." Then someone feels offended because you're discussing pork, you've done nothing to intentionally offend them, but they are offended, and the distance created. Offense gives us a sense of the boundaries of other people without having to grossly violate them in a meaningful way.

 

[JaredJames]

I'm not making a value judgement, or saying that it's a fault issue. The reality is that when someone is offended, they retreat. They may retreat behind a hail of angry words, but above all they distance themselves from you. If you INTENDED to offend the person, it's going to be worse, but intent or not the results are the same.

You said (emphasis mine):

At its most basic level, offending someone is about creating distance between the two of you.

The above only applies in circumstances of a person being deliberately offensive.

If you take offence at something I say (even though I didn't mean it to be so), I have still offended you. But, it is not about me trying to distance us.

My response was simply in this regard.

If I am straight with you and don't degrade into personal insults and slurs then I couldn't care less if you are offended. I'm not concerned if you take it badly - I'm just calling it like I see it - as long as I'm not deliberately trying to offend you.

 

[Nicodemus]

You said (emphasis mine):


The above only applies in circumstances of a person being deliberately offensive.

If you take offence at something I say (even though I didn't mean it to be so), I have still offended you. But, it is not about me trying to distance us.

My response was simply in this regard.

If I am straight with you and don't degrade into personal insults and slurs then I couldn't care less if you are offended. I'm not concerned if you take it badly - I'm just calling it like I see it - as long as I'm not deliberately trying to offend you.

I disagree, but just to make what I was saying clear, there's a reason I didn't say that it was about trying to distance someone else from you. You can be completely right, and well intentioned, someone else gets offended and walks out of the room. You may be able to talk to them later, or maybe not: offending someone else creates distance.

When you're offended, someone else has come too close to your intellectual or emotional personal space, but that doesn't mean your space is reasonable or right. I'll give this one more go:

Lets pretend that I'm so ugly it makes you physically ill, and in fact I make nearly everyone I see disturbed and horrified. Some people are going to tease and torment me, some will act in a manner I find offensive (staring, that kind of thing), but everyone will NOTICE. If the initial reaction that some people can't stop offends me, it's not their fault or mine, you've just learned that for me all it takes to offend is knowledge that others find me ugly, and that beyond being ugly I take up a lot of emotional space.

 

[JaredJames]

I disagree, but just to make what I was saying clear, there's a reason I didn't say that it was about trying to distance someone else from you.

Yes, you did:

At its most basic level, offending someone is about creating distance between the two of you.

When you're offended, someone else has come too close to your intellectual or emotional personal space, but that doesn't mean your space is reasonable or right. I'll give this one more go:

Lets pretend that I'm so ugly it makes you physically ill, and in fact I make nearly everyone I see disturbed and horrified. Some people are going to tease and torment me, some will act in a manner I find offensive (staring, that kind of thing), but everyone will NOTICE. If the initial reaction that some people can't stop offends me, it's not their fault or mine, you've just learned that for me all it takes to offend is knowledge that others find me ugly, and that beyond being ugly I take up a lot of emotional space.

What exactly are you arguing here?

The thread topic is "why do we care if we offend people?".

Like I said before, what I say and what you hear are two different things. My point being that for the most part, I don't care if I offend you as long as I don't do it deliberately - nothing to do with how you take it. That's a different issue.

You are confusing the reaction of a listener with the intention of the speaker.

For some people they try to avoid saying anything that may cause offence, they try to preempt a reaction - which is where political correctness goes mad. You get people caring too much about offending someone. Again, this is nothing to do with someone's reaction, only a potential reaction the speaker has generated in their head.

 

[Nicodemus]

Yes, you did:



What exactly are you arguing here?

The thread topic is "why do we care if we offend people?".

Like I said before, what I say and what you hear are two different things. My point being that for the most part, I don't care if I offend you as long as I don't do it deliberately - nothing to do with how you take it. That's a different issue.

You are confusing the reaction of a listener with the intention of the speaker.

For some people they try to avoid saying anything that may cause offence, they try to preempt a reaction - which is where political correctness goes mad. You get people caring too much about offending someone. Again, this is nothing to do with someone's reaction, only a potential reaction the speaker has generated in their head.

You should always care when you change how others view you, even if it's not your intent. You don't have to care about offending people until that act of offense, intentional or not, leads to undesirable results.

 

[JaredJames]

You should always care when you change how others view you, even if it's not your intent. You don't have to care about offending people until that act of offense, intentional or not, leads to undesirable results.

It's called political correctness. Yes, to a point I accept it. But, there is a stage where political correctness goes mad. You end up with people trying to contemplate every offence that may be caused and trying to prevent it.

I am not going to censor what I say because it may offend you. I will censor what I say if I know it will offend you.

If you can't accept constructive criticism then that's your problem, not mine. I'm not going to blow smoke up your backside.

The topic here, at least the way I see it, is why do some people care more about potentially offending than other people?

As I've said before, for me it's a case of not caring so long as I'm not trying to offend you. For others, it is a case of considering everything they say for fear of offending. I see this as ridiculous.

 

[Nicodemus]

I'm talking about practical concerns, not PC. PC seeks to avoid offence for its own sake; I"m saying that you don't call your boss a jerk, or fat, or old. You don't offend people for practical reasons, and after a while it becomes a habit. If the content of what you're saying just happens to be offensive to a minority, that's too bad unless they're potential friends, or in authority.

I am not arguing for the PC view that language hurts; bullying hurts in whatever form it comes, but that doesn't mean the converse it true: bullying can involve offending people, but offending people does not mean you're a bully.

 

[JaredJames]

I'm talking about practical concerns, not PC. PC seeks to avoid offence for its own sake; I"m saying that you don't call your boss a jerk, or fat, or old. You don't offend people for practical reasons, and after a while it becomes a habit. If the content of what you're saying just happens to be offensive to a minority, that's too bad unless they're potential friends, or in authority.

I am not arguing for the PC view that language hurts; bullying hurts in whatever form it comes, but that doesn't mean the converse it true: bullying can involve offending people, but offending people does not mean you're a bully.

Then I've lost the point of what you're arguing here.

What you've written above agrees with what I said initially: "I don't care if I offend you as long as I don't do it deliberately". I don't see why adding "minority" changes that.

I don't see where bullying comes into it.

I'm just dropping this now as it could go on forever.

 

[Nicodemus]

Do you care if you accidentally offend the girl you're courting?

 

[JaredJames]

Do you care if you accidentally offend the girl you're courting?

I think you'd have a really good laugh watching me speak to someone. I'm not a particularly emotional person. If I unintentionally offend someone I don't react, it just doesn't bother me.

"I don't care if I offend you as long as I don't do it deliberately."

Really can't make it much clearer than that.

 

[Pengwuino]

I'm talking about practical concerns, not PC. PC seeks to avoid offence for its own sake; I"m saying that you don't call your boss a jerk, or fat, or old. You don't offend people for practical reasons, and after a while it becomes a habit. If the content of what you're saying just happens to be offensive to a minority, that's too bad unless they're potential friends, or in authority.

This goes to something I should have said. I see 3 levels of communication with people in this regard. You can either 1) speak of political correctness which is just stupidity in my views or 2) you speak in a normal, everyday, some might say "open" manner or 3) in a way that intentionally tries to make someone feel bad. For example, as was stated in an earlier post, we can look at how someone might tell a girl that they are a slut. You could 1) make note that they have a lot of guy friends or 2) that they sleep around with too many people or 3) they're a slut. It's as if people try to say something but they don't want to actually SAY IT, but they want the point to come across. Except, unless you're a moron in all honesty, you're not going to find a way to tell a person they're a slut, have the person realize you just said they're a slut, yet view you as a person who DIDN'T just call them a slut.

The first, I just don't understand. You're trying to SAY 2) but you're using weaselly language to say something in the hopes that somehow the person will hear it in a way that they'll feel better about you than if they had said it like 2). The question to me is, WHY? Has anyone ever heard 1) and did NOT imply 2)?

I also wonder another thing. I have not known of 1 person who likes political correctness. Yet, we feel we MUST be politically correct, and at the least, give a small or even reasonable effort to be political correct to the extreme. But why? Who are we trying to please? There has to be some people out there who feel better because political correctness exists in the sense that we have to almost walk on eggshells with people. Who are these people? And why do we care what they think?

Personally, I do not have any respect for people who get offended easily. To me, they are trying to live in a different world, and they demand the world be to their liking, right down to how people choose their words. It's as tasteless as if some guy decided to say that all girls need to be slim and trim so there were 'eye-candy' everywhere. To me they are practically identical, weaselly types of personalities. They want the world to be more enjoyable for them simply because that's what they want.

The fact that America seems to be the epicenter of political correctness at times seems to just laugh in the face of the ideals of a country that everyone initially imagines in their mind when they hear the phrase "freedom of speech". Sometimes I think we should change the first amendment to say "Freedom of certain speech". Someone get me a copy of Animal Farm.

 

[Nicodemus]

I think you'd have a really good laugh watching me speak to someone. I'm not a particularly emotional person. If I unintentionally offend someone I don't react, it just doesn't bother me.

"I don't care if I offend you as long as I don't do it deliberately."

Really can't make it much clearer than that.

No offense, but you keep bringing this back to you, and how you'd act; I'm talking about people in general. The issue of easily offended people is separate from, "why do we care if we offend people."

Answer: In the extreme, they'll kill us. In the least extreme, people we already don't like will not like us.

And everything in between. I think Pengwuino pegged three good markers on that contiuum; one that covers most situations, and I agree with his view of the people involved. None of that changes that you might want to avoid even unreasonable offense if the person you're talking to is going to sign on to a paper you wrote, or give you a loan, or a raise...

 

[Kawakaze]

None of that changes that you might want to avoid even unreasonable offense if the person you're talking to is going to sign on to a paper you wrote, or give you a loan, or a raise...

Well they say you catch more flies with honey, you'd catch even more with manure, but I am not sure how that would apply here. Sorry couldn't resist, not sure where I heard that one.

Its probably a lot to do with how you are raised too, manners and all that. I never go out of my way to offend anyone, but I much rather deal with an honest ******* than a weasely *******. "Do unto others" on a subconscious level maybe? People on the whole are nice, so I guess its expected of us to be nice.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Like most people, I don't go around insulting people. Probably, the reason is that my parents didn't do so. So for me, it's more a matter of convention than of morality. Those who do make a habit of insulting people may be suffering from a mental condition that causes it. But if not, then I imagine that they don't insulting everyone they meet. After all, you only have so many arrows in your quiver and the savvy hunter quickly learns to conserve them.

 

[JaredJames]

No offense, but you keep bringing this back to you, and how you'd act; I'm talking about people in general.

You're question was: "Do you care if you accidentally offend the girl you're courting?". Hence answer, about me.

As an additional, I can't speak for others, so I don't.

The issue of easily offended people is separate from, "why do we care if we offend people."

That's what I've been saying this whole time.

Answer: In the extreme, they'll kill us. In the least extreme, people we already don't like will not like us.

What and double what?

And everything in between. I think Pengwuino pegged three good markers on that contiuum; one that covers most situations, and I agree with his view of the people involved. None of that changes that you might want to avoid even unreasonable offense if the person you're talking to is going to sign on to a paper you wrote, or give you a loan, or a raise...

Now you're adding additional factors.

Regardless, you aren't differentiating between a deliberate act and an unintentional one. I'm not going to deliberately offend you when speaking to you, but that doesn't mean I'm going to consider every little thing I say just incase it may cause you offence.

I will speak to you freely, openly and honestly. If you can't handle that then it's your problem. If you want someone to hold your hand and tell you the world smells of roses then I ain't that guy.

 

[Hepth]

Regardless, you aren't differentiating between a deliberate act and an unintentional one. I'm not going to deliberately offend you when speaking to you, but that doesn't mean I'm going to consider every little thing I say just incase it may cause you offence.

This is what I have a problem with. I've had this discussion before with people and it seems like a cop-out to say "I shouldn't have to watch my words as you MAY be offended/humiliated/angered/etc unintentionally." That somehow you should be treated as a child who can't watch what they say because, well, its difficult? or something?

If you have the mental capacity to think about what you say before you blurt it out, you should especially if its things that may offend others.

The things most people get offended about are not small slips or misunderstandings. They are about abuse of words that usually extend to racism/sexism/etc.

I understand (as I hope you do) that its NOT black and white. There is no LINE. If you say something about dogs and I'm offended because I was abused by dogs as a child, well, that's not your fault. If you deliberately call your friend a slur, say "F*gg*t", and my gay friend I'm with overhears, and is offended, you ARE at fault. You can't claim "Well I shouldn't have to mind what I say in public places. Thats too P.C." Thats BS>

 

[JaredJames]

I understand (as I hope you do) that its NOT black and white. There is no LINE. If you say something about dogs and I'm offended because I was abused by dogs as a child, well, that's not your fault. If you deliberately call your friend a slur, say "F*gg*t", and my gay friend I'm with overhears, and is offended, you ARE at fault. You can't claim "Well I shouldn't have to mind what I say in public places. Thats too P.C." Thats BS>

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

In the first part of your post you, as per Nicodemus, seem to misunderstand what I'm talking about when I say "a deliberate act".

If I'm not deliberately abusive, as per your first example it's a case of sh*t happens. It wasn't an intentional act, heck it wasn't even abusive. In your second it's being deliberately abusive (even if not directly to the person). Simple as that.

I'm curious if people understand the difference between speaking offensively - deliberately offending someone, and speaking normally (no offensive language) - and someone simply taking offence.

 

[GeorginaS]

The first thing I thought about when I saw this thread was

That fellow is seriously funny! Thank you! I've not seen him before.

 

[GeorginaS]

Okay, now, fine, but the question, as I understand it, is: why do we care if we offend people?

Preface to this: yes, yes, yes, some people seemingly live to be offended, and yes, there are political and/or socially hyper-sensitive groups who seem to define themselves by the ways in which they can be offended, and those people are beyond annoying. Yes.

But why do we care? Because we're social creatures. Because we function, largely, best in groups, as a collective. The total being greater than the sum of each individual part and all of that. And being social, we need to co-operate, so we learn skills such as tact and diplomacy in order to hone our socialising and co-operation skills.

People here are giving examples of that and how one need not be "offensive" in order to be forthright, honest, and truthful. You employ a bit of empathy and choose the words you're about to deploy in such a way as to achieve maximum effect. You don't get the best results from another human being should you behave in a way that's offensive. So you take care.

It's all about getting the maximum bang for your buck. If you want to incite conflict or disagreement, or cause someone else to feel sad or shamed, and therefore get defensive, whereby the odds are good they'll strike out at you, then go ahead, say something deliberately provocative. Or mean. Or rude. It'll work. If that's the end you'd like to achieve, it's certainly doable.

The point is is that most people don't have the time or energy or resources or drive to deal with constant conflict. Generally, the quickest means to any ends is co-operatively. Hence why we care whether or not we offend people.

And/or if we're using the word "care" in the emotional sense, then it's largely the same thing but with a larger empathetic component. We "care" in that sense because our words have caused another person some sort of psychic harm. We've inflicted pain -- deliberately or not -- and that makes an awful lot of us uncomfortable because of the empathetic angle. So we prefer not to do that.

Do I get offended? Yes, sometimes people are rude or mean or cruel and say things that just aren't fair or warranted or are just plain insulting. And that hurts. How offended I'll feel depends, of course, on how much I value that particular person and their opinions. If they don't mean a great deal to me, it's more difficult for them to harm me. I don't get riled over differing opinions or any of that sort of nonsense. I am, however, human and have feelings, and, yes, I can be hurt with words. That people care makes my world a better place.

 

[Nicodemus]

I clearly don't understand your position jarednjames, and you seem to be missing my point that, "deliberate", counts for about as much with offending people as motive does with murder.