Why are there so many dyslexic scientists?

  • Thread starter billiards
  • Start date
In summary: I don't know, but they make up a lot of the kids getting good grades.Most poor spellers are not dyslexic.
  • #1
billiards
767
16
Looking back I remember my first science teacher making a lot of spelling mistakes on the board. At uni I noticed that many of my colleagues were dyslexic, and quite a few of the lecturers were too but they were quite good at covering it up. Now I work with scientists and I have been shocked by the percentage of dyslexic people, it's a small office but about 15% have told me that they are dyslexic, and it's obvious that there are a few others who have problems with spelling. In fact, if you consider that I don't have enough contact with about 60% of the people in the office to pass judgement - I would say of the 40% I've worked closely enough with, about 50-60% are dyslexic to varying degrees.

Is this normal? Is this normal for just scientists? Or is this just me who's noticed this?
 
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  • #2
They might just be poor spellers.
 
  • #3
I'm dyslectic. My spelling is below average and it's good my browser has auto spelling. However, I have never encountered anyone that was dyslectic in my engineering classes though.
 
  • #4
Evo said:
They might just be poor spellers.

I thought that was the giveaway sympton of dyslexia.
 
  • #5
At my university they seem to screen for dyslexia and other specific learning disabilities pretty readily. It's not compulsory, but it's made pretty clear that the option is there for whoever wants it. Staff may even suggest it if spelling is an issue in your work. At school on the other hand, I never really knew it to happen. I don't know if this is universal, but if so, perhaps university educated people are just more likely to have their dyslexia diagnosed than those who leave school earlier. It's (sadly) not that unusual for a person to leave compulsory schooling with poor English, so dyslexic students may be more likely to be missed, but at university level, you probably stand out a lot more for it.
 
  • #6
billiards said:
I thought that was the giveaway sympton of dyslexia.

Most poor spellers are not dyslexic.

I've actually never met anyone in the sciences who I knew was dyslexic. I imagine it would be very difficult to get through so much schooling without being able to read properly. Many scientists do seem to have poor grammar and spelling skills, however.
 
  • #7
billiards said:
I thought that was the giveaway sympton of dyslexia.

Whether this is true or not (I'm not qualified to say), the fact that dyslexia is associated with spelling difficulties does not imply that the converse is true.

So it's definitely possible to have difficulty with spelling, and not be dyslexic.
 
  • #8
this is what happens when you grow up with 'spellcheck'
 
  • #9
I find it hard to see how otherwise intelligent people can have such a problem with spelling unless they are dyslexic. I admit I don't know enough about it to diagnose the condition, so perhaps I have jumped the gun, allow me to rephrase:

Why is it that so many scientists are so awful at spelling?

Actually, I must say that science sites like this one, for the most part, attract members with spelling standards way above the norm. I find this to be anomalous, I can only think that this is a product of the American education system (I have lived in the UK all my life), I know that educated Yanks are generally more rounded than the Brits, and hence this could explain why (from my limited experience on this site) I find them to be better spellers.
 
  • #10
I have dysgraphia (so I think) because I write printed letters from the bottom up, and this year my science teacher is dysgraphic (where I found the term) and prints similarly to me. I hardly ever need to go back and correct things in my typing, so don't say all young people us spellcheck as a crutch.
 
  • #11
billiards said:
Why is it that so many scientists are so awful at spelling?
They think faster than they can type? This is also the reason they stutter and stammer when speaking 'off the cuff' and have terrible handwriting.

Actually, I must say that science sites like this one, for the most part, attract members with spelling standards way above the norm.
I think they are just educated enough to put some effort into checkign and correcting typos. There is also a degree of peer-pressure, especially when someone quotes your typos!

Clinical dyslexia is quite rare. But it is commonly used as either a middle class excuse for thick kids (little Quentin didn't get straight As he must be dislexic) or it just means I can't spell and can't be bothered to check so I must be dyslexic.
It is getting to be a problem in UK state schools. They are now dominated by league tables of exam performance but you get allowances for any kids with 'special needs', kids with dyslexia are also allowed word processors or extra help in written exams and you can get extra money for teaching them. The result is a big rise in diagnosis of dyslexia in schools, especially schools in 'nice' areas with caring parents who want the kids to do well in exams and the school wants to do well in league tables.
 
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  • #12
mgb_phys said:
I think they are just educated enough to put some effort into checkign and correcting typos. There is also a degree of peer-pressure, especially when someone quotes your typos!

Hehe, had to do it!
 
  • #13
And I had already gone back and corrected a typo in 'typo' :cry:
 
  • #14
I remember years ago, before dyslexia became a popular excuse for doing poorly in English, that it was a disorder in the brain that caused people with the condition to not be able to see numbers and letters in the correct order. The paper explained that a dyslexic person would, for example, not be able to read a street sign. Numbers and letters appear transposed to them.

It seems the "diagnosis" is now given to anyone that spells poorly. That's not dyslexia.
 
  • #15
billiards said:
I find it hard to see how otherwise intelligent people can have such a problem with spelling unless they are dyslexic.
It's just not their strength. I have a very good friend who is very intelligent, but the most horrendous speller I've met...it's become a joke between us. I tend to think spelling is something that requires proper teaching early in life to grasp all the rules. Dyslexia is not just bad spelling, but a learning disability where one sees letters jumbled out of order from the way they are actually printed. The people you know who are claiming to be dyslexic...have they actually been diagnosed with dyslexia, or are they just joking that that's their problem when they are just bad spellers? Someone with dyslexia is also a bad reader, because they can't see the words correctly.

Why is it that so many scientists are so awful at spelling?
The same reason so many other people are so bad at spelling?
 
  • #16
Moonbear said:
I tend to think spelling is something that requires proper teaching early in life to grasp all the rules.
It helps but in English there are as many exceptions as rules!
I think it comes down to two things, reading enough that you recognise when words are spelt wrong and thinking it's important enough to correct them.
The majority of our writing today is typed, how much is bad spelling compared to just bad typing?
Sometimes it doesn't matter, you wouldn't correct spelling in a quick txt message or email in the same way you wouldn't script or rehearse a quick phone call.

(ps I did have to lookup rehearse !)
 
  • #17
I've been diagnosed with dyslexia in 1st or 2nd grade as my learning development lacked behind peers. Spelling for me is mediocre at best. Handwriting is extremely illegible as I'm left handed as well. But there is way more to dyslexia than just spelling, and no two dyslectics are the same.
 
  • #18
waht said:
I've been diagnosed with dyslexia in 1st or 2nd grade as my learning development lacked behind peers. Spelling for me is mediocre at best. Handwriting is extremely illegible as I'm left handed as well. But there is way more to dyslexia than just spelling, and no two dyslectics are the same.
So when you look at words and numbers they are scrambled and you can't make them out? That's what true dsylexia was about. It's about how you see things.
 
  • #19
I read (forgot the source) that dyslexia is actually the inability to mentally connect symbols to sounds. It has nothing specifically to do with transposing those symbols around. Poor spelling and poor reading should both be side effects.

Anyway, I've always been a great speller, and I've never really understood people who aren't, because it is such a simple thing to me. I suppose it might come from reading a lot, as Mgb_Phys notes, and from caring enough to correct mistakes.
 
  • #20
Evo said:
So when you look at words and numbers they are scrambled and you can't make them out? That's what true dsylexia was about. It's about how you see things.

Dyslexia is not a visual problem where letters appear scrambled. Although, at the most extreme level this might manifest itself, but one would have to have other neurological problems.

Dyslectics process information visually rather than verbally (when hearing a word). So instead of hearing the word in your mind when reading, dyslectics visualize it. This creates a paradox where for instance vowels such "a" have no picture analogy. This in turn confuses the mind, causes a sudden break, and sometimes distracts the dyslectic completely. It turns out there is hundreds of words without a picture analogy such as "some, been, into" and so on. Because visual thinking is quick, dyslectics rush writing to capture their mental revelation before it grows into something else. This will naturally lead to making spelling errors, and other things.
 
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  • #21
waht said:
Dyslexia is not a visual problem where letters appear scrambled. Although, at the most extreme level this might manifest itself, but one would have to have other neurological problems.

Dyslectics process information visually rather than verbally (when hearing a word). So instead of hearing the word in your mind when reading, dyslectics visualize it. This creates a paradox where for instance vowels such "a" have no picture analogy. This in turn confuses the mind, causes a sudden break, and sometimes distracts the dyslectic completely. It turns out there is hundreds of words without a picture analogy such as "some, been, into" and so on. Because visual thinking is quick, dyslectics rush writing to capture their mental revelation before it grows into something else. This will naturally lead to making spelling errors, and other things.

Do you have auditory dyslexia? There is an auditory form and a visual form. I think (but am not sure) that the visual form is the more common, where the problem is in visual processing of symbols (including letters). What you're describing sounds more of an auditory processing problem, not being able to "hear" the word you're reading, and even missing entire words when trying to comprehend written sentences.

One of the more classic (meaning OLD) ways that one could screen for visual dyslexia was to give a person a list of symbols, and see if they could say or rewrite them in order. This eliminates "bad spelling" as a confounding problem in the screening process.

In little kids, though, transposing letters in words isn't uncommon as they learn to spell, so that alone isn't enough to make a diagnosis. It's also a fairly common typographical error.

Edit: Oh! And suddenly your username makes sense to me. :biggrin:
 
  • #22
Based on comments in this thread, and doing a brief search on the webb has produced the strange feeling that, combining dyslexia, and ADD, togeather i see a revelation of some of my greatest problems. Mispelled words, and transposed numbers, that even when you read them again you don't see until after posting.

Keeping thoughts togeather thru one paragraph is a challange, and having to reread words more than once, before you finish a sentence, really consumes the time. The preference of working alone rather than in a group.

Guess i have some study in front of me. Are there theorpy solutions, or any helps for old gezzers like me ?? -:)
 
  • #23
OK, I have to correct this spelling error in this thread, since it's been propagated repeatedly:

Dyslexic is the adjective describing someone who has dyslexia. Not "dyslectic". :P
 
  • #24
Rumors that my spelling is bad, are exaggerated,

My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling, but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places.
 
  • #25
Hello everybody. This is my first posting so please be gentle with me!

I'm a remedial reading tutor with a science background so I'm VERY keen on evidence-based practice.

The subjects of dyslexia, and the teaching of reading, are my passion.

For that reason, I've made and maintain a website which is a completely evidence-based guide to both subjects.

If you have time, do have a read as I think it will cast a great deal of light on both these areas.

www.dyslexics.org.uk
 
  • #26
Thanks SusanG
Looks like a very good start point for some study in this area.

As soon as i can string a DSL cable thru the attic to the sun room, i will be able to sit back in my best recliner, and enjoy reading on that BIG 50" plasma screen. With some of the other links to lectures, and online information that seems limitless on this forum, my arms and wrists, will get a break from holding up those big heavy textbooks. <GRIN>

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Ron
 
  • #27
Moonbear said:
It's just not their strength. I have a very good friend who is very intelligent, but the most horrendous speller I've met...it's become a joke between us. I tend to think spelling is something that requires proper teaching early in life to grasp all the rules. Dyslexia is not just bad spelling, but a learning disability where one sees letters jumbled out of order from the way they are actually printed. The people you know who are claiming to be dyslexic...have they actually been diagnosed with dyslexia, or are they just joking that that's their problem when they are just bad spellers? Someone with dyslexia is also a bad reader, because they can't see the words correctly.

Well, I haven't seen their medical records but I strongly suspect they were not joking. One guy actually told me he had to dictate all his exams at uni because his dyslexia is so bad.

For some reason I honestly had the impression that dyslexia was more prominent in the sciences than in other academic fields... although come to think of it, I do have dyslexic friends taking art and media studies. I guess I figured that dyslexic people were less suitable for subjects requiring high literacy (english, history, law etc..) and therefore tended towards the sciences (and other less literary subjects).

This thread has altered my view somewhat, I used to see bad spelling as a sure sign of dyslexia, now I know that is not the case it puts my observations (and my concomitant hypothesis) into question.
 
  • #28
pretty sure I am dyslexic

I have thought I am dyslexic for many many years. The trouble i have is mostly with numbers and directions. Phone numbers are always a problem for me. When my mind "flips" as i call it I can end up dialing a phone number several times before i get it right. This only happens with phone numbers I am reading. It seems I will always transpose 2 digits. The only remedy i have is to read and say the numbers as I dial. If I do not do this, 8 times out of 10 I will get it wrong. I usualy get it wrong the second time I dial as well. By then I realize I have "flipped" and do the reading out loud/ dial trick. I find I really have to concentrate as my mind tries to flip back, so to speak, over the numbers I am saying out loud. It is an annoyance.
The other trouble is when driving, If my mind flips ,left becomes right and I don't realize it. I can actualy say to someone riding with me " I need to turn left here" and turn right and not realize i did so. Very frustrating to say the least. I have a digital compass and a gps system in all of our vehicles. This helps a lot while driving. I can get lost walking in a park. If I have to walk in an area i do not know, I get lost. The main trouble is I can never be sure which way I have turned in any given situation, because I never know when my mind had "flipped".
I actualy drove the wrong way around the great lakes once driving from Chicago to Toronto, lol That was a long drive! Needless to say I thought I was going the right way. I do not seem to have any more than average trouble with spelling.

Posative and negative numbers give me trouble as well, also I cannot learn how to subtract on paper. I have tried many times to learn. I do it in my head.

I am trying to think of anything positive about this condition, The only thing I can come up with is I can read upside down as well as i can read right side up, and I have no trouble reading at all.
 
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  • #29
I have a strange experience with spelling that might shed light on this.

When I was in college, like many physics students I was terribly pressed for time to get through all my physics homework. I found that if I turned off the "thought voice" as I was solving physics problems, I could work much faster. By "thought voice" I mean I wouldn't think in English (my native - well, only - language). No language in my head at all, just ideas. I thought this was pretty cool until I noticed my spelling just went to hell. I also found I would struggle to find words when talking.

After school I had the time to think using language again, and my spelling and verbal skills returned.

BTW, the people I've told this to usually just give my blank stares, so if this seems odd to you, I won't be surprised.

So maybe the scientists who think in ideas, not language, are the poor spellers...?
 
  • #30
Moonbear said:
Do you have auditory dyslexia? There is an auditory form and a visual form. I think (but am not sure) that the visual form is the more common, where the problem is in visual processing of symbols (including letters). What you're describing sounds more of an auditory processing problem, not being able to "hear" the word you're reading, and even missing entire words when trying to comprehend written sentences.

Yes, that's what I have. Although, my diagnosis didn't specify that, just that I'm a dyslexic. But dyslexia is so diverse, and no two persons have same problems. Some have visual and auditory dyslexia, others have such extreme case that you couldn't distinguish it from autism. Alot of famous people have dyslexia too, Tom Cruise, JFK, Walt Disney, and even Einstein.

When I read, I can still hear the words in the background, but a mental picture starts forming and evolving as I read. I skip words quite often when I read or write and often misspell them at that. I have got into a habit now of rereading what I wrote a couple of times, and often I find big mistakes on every pass. I actually repeated English composition in college six times to pass, while I aced all the math and engineering classes.:frown:



Oh! And suddenly your username makes sense to me. :biggrin:

Heh :smile:
Looks alright to me
 
  • #31
waht said:
Alot of famous people have dyslexia too, Tom Cruise, JFK, Walt Disney, and even Einstein.
That's actually a myth, excluding Tom Cruise, they were never diagnosed while alive, how could they be diagnosed while dead?
 
  • #32
Evo said:
That's actually a myth, excluding Tom Cruise, they were never diagnosed while alive, how could they be diagnosed while dead?

That is an excellent question. I quoted this from a book "Gift of Dyslexia" by Ronald Davis. So far I have not found him to be a crack pot, he developed different techniques to aid dyslexics. If he is found to be a crackpot, I will change my mind in a heart beat.

Although Einstein being a dyslexic on the front cover would help sell the book, but he is not on the front cover.
 
  • #33
waht said:
That is an excellent question. I quoted this from a book "Gift of Dyslexia" by Ronald Davis. So far I have not found him to be a crack pot, he developed different techniques to aid dyslexics. If he is found to be a crackpot, I will change my mind in a heart beat.

Although Einstein being a dyslexic on the front cover would help sell the book, but he is not on the front cover.
I wouldn't say he's a crackpot, but he definitely didn't check his sources. Or he may be one of those that says "well, based on people's comments and their writing I would say they could have been dyslexic". It is a widely spread internet myth that has unfortunately been repeated so many times that even legitimate sites are spreading the myth, assuming it's true. It's not.

The following is the definitive crackpot list of "Famous Dyslexics". That list is ridiculous, but this is how this stuff gets started.

Beethoven, Vincent Van Gogh, Newton, Galileo, Michelangelo, Leonardo DaVinci, Charles Darwin, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Andrew Jackson, Napoleon Bonaparte, Benjamin Franklin, Enrico Caruso, Gustave Flaubert, Sir Issac Newton, Edgar Allan Poe, Ernest Hemingway, Thomas Edison, Orville and Wilbur Wright, Einstein, and it goes on and on. :rofl:

It's uncanny that only "good" people had dyslexia, I don't see Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Nero, Attila The Hun, etc... named anywhere.

http://www.dyslexia-testing.com.au/wordpress/index.php/2008/01/07/here-is-a-definitive-list-of-famous-dyslexics/ [Broken]
 
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  • #34
Why did they make dyslexia so hard to spell?
 
  • #35
NeoDevin said:
Why did they make dyslexia so hard to spell?
Same reason 'lisp' is hard to say!
 
<h2>1. Why is dyslexia more common among scientists?</h2><p>There is no definitive answer to why dyslexia is more common among scientists. Some theories suggest that dyslexia may be linked to certain cognitive strengths that are beneficial in scientific fields, such as creativity, problem-solving skills, and the ability to think outside the box. Additionally, many dyslexic individuals develop strong compensatory strategies to overcome their challenges with reading and writing, which can also be valuable in scientific research.</p><h2>2. Are there any famous dyslexic scientists?</h2><p>Yes, there are many famous scientists who have dyslexia, including Albert Einstein, Thomas Edison, and Leonardo da Vinci. Dyslexia does not limit a person's potential for success in the field of science.</p><h2>3. Can dyslexia affect a scientist's ability to conduct research?</h2><p>Dyslexia can certainly present challenges in the field of science, particularly in tasks that involve reading and writing. However, many dyslexic scientists have found ways to overcome these challenges and excel in their research. Additionally, accommodations and support can be provided to help dyslexic scientists succeed in their work.</p><h2>4. How can dyslexia be an advantage in scientific research?</h2><p>Dyslexia can be an advantage in scientific research because it often leads to different ways of thinking and problem-solving. Dyslexic individuals may have a unique perspective and approach to research, which can lead to innovative ideas and breakthroughs. Additionally, dyslexia can also foster resilience and determination, qualities that are essential for success in the scientific field.</p><h2>5. Are there any resources or support for dyslexic scientists?</h2><p>Yes, there are various resources and support available for dyslexic scientists. Many universities and research institutions have accommodations and support services for individuals with dyslexia. There are also organizations and communities specifically for dyslexic scientists, where they can connect with others and share their experiences and strategies for success. Additionally, assistive technology and tools can also be helpful for dyslexic scientists in their research and work.</p>

1. Why is dyslexia more common among scientists?

There is no definitive answer to why dyslexia is more common among scientists. Some theories suggest that dyslexia may be linked to certain cognitive strengths that are beneficial in scientific fields, such as creativity, problem-solving skills, and the ability to think outside the box. Additionally, many dyslexic individuals develop strong compensatory strategies to overcome their challenges with reading and writing, which can also be valuable in scientific research.

2. Are there any famous dyslexic scientists?

Yes, there are many famous scientists who have dyslexia, including Albert Einstein, Thomas Edison, and Leonardo da Vinci. Dyslexia does not limit a person's potential for success in the field of science.

3. Can dyslexia affect a scientist's ability to conduct research?

Dyslexia can certainly present challenges in the field of science, particularly in tasks that involve reading and writing. However, many dyslexic scientists have found ways to overcome these challenges and excel in their research. Additionally, accommodations and support can be provided to help dyslexic scientists succeed in their work.

4. How can dyslexia be an advantage in scientific research?

Dyslexia can be an advantage in scientific research because it often leads to different ways of thinking and problem-solving. Dyslexic individuals may have a unique perspective and approach to research, which can lead to innovative ideas and breakthroughs. Additionally, dyslexia can also foster resilience and determination, qualities that are essential for success in the scientific field.

5. Are there any resources or support for dyslexic scientists?

Yes, there are various resources and support available for dyslexic scientists. Many universities and research institutions have accommodations and support services for individuals with dyslexia. There are also organizations and communities specifically for dyslexic scientists, where they can connect with others and share their experiences and strategies for success. Additionally, assistive technology and tools can also be helpful for dyslexic scientists in their research and work.

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