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MathHeroine
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I was at my school's tutoring center and heard these two guys agreeing on how math teachers make a huge difference on how well you're going to do in whatever math class you're taking. Do you agree or disagree?
HallsofIvy said:Actuall studies have shown that the quality of the teacher, while is certainly has an effect, is not as important as we might think. If a teacher is not very good, the good students will spend more time reading and working on their own which is always a valuable skill. Poor students will do slightly worse under a poor teacher than a good but not a great deal.
I find it really difficult to imagine they wouldn't consider a grade change, or an incomplete, or something given the syllabus didn't mention participation. That's garbagety =/bpatrick said:not that this has to due with the quality of teaching ability, but this story is more about the general quality of the professor and how little he cared about the students he was teaching:
I have always been a self motivating learner. when I took ODEs freshman year of college, the prof said we didn't have to come to class, so I didn't. I came for the review sessions before the exams, then got As on the exams and went on with my life, no worries, got an A in the course.
sophomore year came and I enrolled in (sophomore level) classical mechanics. the prof started the lecture right away after handing out the syllabus (and not talking about it at all). The syllabus stated that attendance was optional and grades will be determined: 30% exam 1, 30% exam 2, 40% final. I did the same thing I did for my ODE class, went to review sessions, got an A, B+, and A- on the three exams ... so I should have been looking at probably an A- for the course right?
I ended up getting an F on my transcript and thought it was some mistake, when I got back to school in January, I talked to him, and the chair of the physics department. Evidently the first day of class, the prof mistakenly distributed the syllabus from when he taught it two fall semesters before. I had noticed the date on the top of the paper (because I frequently referenced it throughout the semester as I read the proper sections in the book) but i thought the prof was just too lazy or didn't notice he forgot to change the date when he reused the syllabus.
The man never informed me that he had changed the syllabus! ... now how bloody hard is it to send an email with the change? or when you administer the first exam to say, "hey, [bpatrick], i haven't seen you in class, don't you care about your participation grade? ... even with straight As on the exams you'll only get a D given the weight of attendance and homework!", but not a single word for the professor the entire semester, hell, I even went to his office hours once and asked for advice on solving a problem I was working on. All he said was, "we did something like this in class last Wednesday, why don't you come to class or get notes from another student."
I never ended up getting the grade changed (the university gave an option to retake up to 2 courses that you received a C- or lower in), but by the next fall, I had already completed my minor in physics and the same prof was teaching the course again. I had no desire to be in the same room with that man for an entire semester wasting my time on stuff I already could do, and needed to be taking another course that fall in my major that was offered at the same time.
overall, i say that's a pretty awful teacher and just an ahole in general. Until then, I was thinking about double majoring in physics and possibly going to grad school in physics, but when that happened, I ended up focusing on my music instead. It's amazing what a single teacher can do, haha.
Jorriss said:I find it really difficult to imagine they wouldn't consider a grade change, or an incomplete, or something given the syllabus didn't mention participation. That's garbagety =/
Moonbear said:The study was actually intended to measure the validity of student evaluations of instruction. I can't remember where I saw it published to cite it though.
Moonbear said:The ones who were perceived as worse or harder teachers...
Yup. Giant ahole because YOU decided you were too good for lecture, and this professor didn't kiss your *** to get you to come to lecture. That's your responsibility brosef, not his.bpatrick said:not that this has to due with the quality of teaching ability, but this story is more about the general quality of the professor and how little he cared about the students he was teaching:
I have always been a self motivating learner. when I took ODEs freshman year of college, the prof said we didn't have to come to class, so I didn't. I came for the review sessions before the exams, then got As on the exams and went on with my life, no worries, got an A in the course.
sophomore year came and I enrolled in (sophomore level) classical mechanics. the prof started the lecture right away after handing out the syllabus (and not talking about it at all). The syllabus stated that attendance was optional and grades will be determined: 30% exam 1, 30% exam 2, 40% final. I did the same thing I did for my ODE class, went to review sessions, got an A, B+, and A- on the three exams ... so I should have been looking at probably an A- for the course right?
I ended up getting an F on my transcript and thought it was some mistake, when I got back to school in January, I talked to him, and the chair of the physics department. Evidently the first day of class, the prof mistakenly distributed the syllabus from when he taught it two fall semesters before. I had noticed the date on the top of the paper (because I frequently referenced it throughout the semester as I read the proper sections in the book) but i thought the prof was just too lazy or didn't notice he forgot to change the date when he reused the syllabus.
The man never informed me that he had changed the syllabus! ... now how bloody hard is it to send an email with the change? or when you administer the first exam to say, "hey, [bpatrick], i haven't seen you in class, don't you care about your participation grade? ... even with straight As on the exams you'll only get a D given the weight of attendance and homework!", but not a single word for the professor the entire semester, hell, I even went to his office hours once and asked for advice on solving a problem I was working on. All he said was, "we did something like this in class last Wednesday, why don't you come to class or get notes from another student."
I never ended up getting the grade changed (the university gave an option to retake up to 2 courses that you received a C- or lower in), but by the next fall, I had already completed my minor in physics and the same prof was teaching the course again. I had no desire to be in the same room with that man for an entire semester wasting my time on stuff I already could do, and needed to be taking another course that fall in my major that was offered at the same time.
overall, i say that's a pretty awful teacher and just an ahole in general. Until then, I was thinking about double majoring in physics and possibly going to grad school in physics, but when that happened, I ended up focusing on my music instead. It's amazing what a single teacher can do, haha.
Intervenient said:Yup. Giant ahole because YOU decided you were too good for lecture, and this professor didn't kiss your *** to get you to come to lecture. That's your responsibility brosef, not his.
daveyinaz said:Actually, bpatrick is not the ahole in this scenario but rather the institution he attended is and possibly you for not understanding that the syllabus acts as a contract between the professor and the student administratively. Since he was given a false set of guidelines to follow, he should not have been faulted for doing what he was fully within his right to do under those specific terms.
You must have read some other post that is not mentioned here because I didn't see anything bpatrick saying that he was informed of the mistake or change.Intervenient said:The professor updated the syllabus saying so.
I didn't realize the fact that your particular stats syllabus was revised a number of times made it common knowledge to all students in all colleges and universities everywhere.Intervenient said:It's common knowledge that syllabuses are subject to change during the first few weeks (My stats syllabus reached it's final version in week 4).
Where did you get that bpatrick was implying that he was better than the institution? Must be the same invisible post you are referring to above.Intervenient said:If he's going to prance about like he's better than the institution, it'd have been wise to show up to class every once in a while.
From the information at hand, bpatrick said that he went to the professor's office hours for homework assistance, if that ain't reaching out, then I don't know what else is.Intervenient said:It was not the professors job to reach out to one of his many, many students (especially one that never showed up to reach out to him).
Intervenient said:Deserved the F, next.
daveyinaz said:Here's what I think went down, assistant chair ahole professor knew bpatrick was not attending class and knew he was taking the tests, even so far as to let him take the final with full knowledge that he was going to fail him and then hide behind some bs like his job title or the fact that he made a mistake in handed out an old syllabus. The appropriate response as an educator or a man with any sort of integrity would to observe the absence pattern and warn the student beforehand of the situation that is about to occur should they continue down a course of wrongful actions, in this case, not attending classes.
Intervenient said:Are you like 5 years old? I'm 100% positive that a professor has a MILLION better things to do then to punish one student who didn't go to lecture.
Do I think that it's stupid that someone who performed well in the class got an F because he didn't go to lecture. Of course. But did bpatrick not have the responsibility as a student to make sure that this was ok? He noticed he got a syllabus with the wrong year at the top, it would have been a good idea to clarify with the professor that this was indeed the correct syllabus, especially if he planned to never go to lecture at all.
I have ZERO sympathy for the guy. Sucks, but if you're going to take a semester long vacation, it'd be a good idea to keep up with the professor. The professor is teaching hundreds of kids I'm sure. It isn't his job to make sure that one student who never bothered to class showed up. Anyways, this whole discussion is off topic, and I apologize for making it so.
It sounds like he wasn't if he got an A otherwise.Intervenient said:Sucks, but if you're going to take a semester long vacation, it'd be a good idea to keep up with the professor.
mathwonk said:people who do not show enough respect to attend class deserve and receive absolutely no slack. Learn this before proceeding further. In my own case, I call absent students on the phone and make sure they know what is going down, and ask why they are absent, but I am totally unique in this respect. Again, if you sign up for a class and do not show up, you are going to suffer for that, and no responsible party in any appeal or forum will support you.
Nano-Passion said:If I may interject, I don't believe its a matter of respect. But rather, a matter of preference. Some use lectures as their prime tool of study, while others prefer complete independent study.
Some people really do benefit from just independent study and for this student, when he needed help, he went to office hours.MathWarrior said:I think if your paying to go to a school to learn something you should do both independent study and lectures.
Intervenient said:I'm 100% positive that a professor has a MILLION better things to do then to punish one student who didn't go to lecture.
Intervenient said:Do I think that it's stupid that someone who performed well in the class got an F because he didn't go to lecture. Of course. But did bpatrick not have the responsibility as a student to make sure that this was ok? He noticed he got a syllabus with the wrong year at the top, it would have been a good idea to clarify with the professor that this was indeed the correct syllabus, especially if he planned to never go to lecture at all.
Intervenient said:Are you like 5 years old?
Intervenient said:I have ZERO sympathy for the guy. Sucks, but if you're going to take a semester long vacation, it'd be a good idea to keep up with the professor. The professor is teaching hundreds of kids I'm sure. It isn't his job to make sure that one student who never bothered to class showed up.
Intervenient said:Anyways, this whole discussion is off topic, and I apologize for making it so.