Steam table data vs experimental : Why the difference?

In summary, the author is trying to figure out why there is a variance in their results and why the steam tables produced by their apparatus differ by 4 degrees Celsius. They speculate that either human error or apparatus error is not good enough for an explanation, and they ask for help in understanding how to improve their experimental apparatus or conditions to get closer to the results produced by the steam tables.
  • #1
Doctor_Doom
14
0
Hey guys! Was wondering if someone could help me out. I'm doing a thermodynamics topic and have an issue explaining the following :

I conducted and experimental procedure involving a boiler apparatus. (Similar to this one >> http://www.armfield.co.uk/th3_datasheet.html" ) Now the idea was to find the pressure and temperature for a set of data points. These data points are then to be compared to the "Steam Table" data points.

http://www.uploadpad.com/files/dfsdfsdf4.jpg

The red line is the experimental results and the blue is the data gained from the steam tables. There is roughly a 4 degree Celsius difference at each pressure point.

I have to explain why there is a variance in my results? Now human error or apparatus error is just not good enough for the explanation. Is there a concrete thermodynamical explanation?

Help would be greatly appreciated!

Ohh on the side note: How can I improve the experimental apparatus or conditions to get closer to the steam table results??
 
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  • #2
I design boilers and heat exchangers for a living. The steam tables are solid as a rock. I think you should think hard on how your system of measurement differs from the system used to create the steam tables.
 
  • #3
On the plus side, the trend is bob on.
 
  • #4
How did you calibrate the pressure & temperature indications?
 
  • #5
The calibration was done by a resistance correction chart.(The temperature measurements were done via an electronic resistor).

So my question just to repeat it again was : How did "they" assemble the steam tables? Under what conditions? And why do my results differ by 4 degrees Celsius ?? There must be a logical explanation why my results are in the same trend but at slightly lower temperature values!
 
  • #6
Doctor_Doom said:
The calibration was done by a resistance correction chart.(The temperature measurements were done via an electronic resistor).
As mentioned, the steam tables are solid. Calibrating sensors should be done by testing at a known temperature to ensure the measurement corresponds. In this case, putting the sensor in boiling water at a known ambient pressure should provide an accurate basis for the measurement. In other words, put the sensor in water that's known to be boiling at 100 C and make sure the reading is correct.

EDIT: Isn't there an 'offset' adjustment on the device you were using to read out the measurement?
 
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  • #7
Thermocouples can have an error of 1.5°C or more. Pt100's are more accurate. What is the quality of the steam you are using? Pressure sensors also have accuracy issues (1-3% FS for festo parts for example). Try putting some error bars on your measured points.
 
  • #8
Q_Goest said:
As mentioned, the steam tables are solid. Calibrating sensors should be done by testing at a known temperature to ensure the measurement corresponds. In this case, putting the sensor in boiling water at a known ambient pressure should provide an accurate basis for the measurement. In other words, put the sensor in water that's known to be boiling at 100 C and make sure the reading is correct.

EDIT: Isn't there an 'offset' adjustment on the device you were using to read out the measurement?

There is only calibration tables available, which in a way acts as an 'offset'(but I applied them). The funny thing is I can't find any historical conditions / equipment that was used to produce the steam table data points. Can anyone post a link of the conditions and equipment used at the time of the steam table creation.
 
  • #9
Doctor_Doom said:
...I can't find any historical conditions / equipment that was used to produce the steam table data points. Can anyone post a link of the conditions and equipment used at the time of the steam table creation.
Tables such as these are generally created from a large amount of data taken from numerous papers. I have to assume the editor of the table takes the data and does some statistical analysis on it in order to get the degree of accuracy found in the tables. If you're interested in determining how the experiments were done, you might look through some of the references used to create the steam table.
 

1. What is steam table data?

Steam table data refers to a set of tables or charts that contain thermodynamic properties of water and steam at various temperatures and pressures. These properties include specific volume, enthalpy, entropy, and steam quality.

2. What is experimental data?

Experimental data refers to data that is obtained through experiments or measurements. In the context of steam tables, it refers to the actual values of the thermodynamic properties obtained through experiments, as opposed to the values listed in the steam tables.

3. Why is there a difference between steam table data and experimental data?

The difference between steam table data and experimental data can be attributed to a few factors. One major factor is the accuracy of the experimental measurements, which can be affected by various factors such as measurement errors, experimental conditions, and equipment limitations. Another factor is the assumptions and simplifications made in the development of the steam tables.

4. Which one is more reliable, steam table data or experimental data?

Both steam table data and experimental data have their own strengths and limitations. Steam table data is based on theoretical calculations and can be used for a wide range of temperatures and pressures. On the other hand, experimental data is obtained through actual measurements and is more accurate for specific conditions. In general, a combination of both types of data is used for accurate calculations and analysis.

5. Can the difference between steam table data and experimental data be eliminated?

The difference between steam table data and experimental data can be reduced but not completely eliminated. One way to reduce the difference is by improving the accuracy of experimental measurements and updating the steam tables with more accurate values. However, due to the complexity of the thermodynamic properties of water and steam, there will always be some level of discrepancy between the two sets of data.

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