Bomb blast in Oslo; PM's office building targeted.

In summary: According to Sky News 5 is now confirmed dead on the island, but Sky are hopefully wrong. The terrorist has an automatic weapon, according to reports.Terror has struck the Norwegian capital today. At 15.26 local time (roughly two hours ago), what appears to have been a car bomb blasted off in the governmental quarters in Oslo. Several have been confirmed dead; although none of our political leasers/ministers seem to be missing/hurt. This is a sad day for our nation. Reuters has a report here: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/22/us-norway-blast-idUSTRE76L2VI20110722Sad, very sad arild
  • #176
rhody said:
Some main points the experts made (based mostly on news reports and them examining his 1500 page rambling manifesto) and no direct contact was:

a: Has narcissistic tendencies (I agree), speaks of using makeup and looking your best before addressing the media
b: Wants to be the center of attention (I agree)
c: Methodical and meticulous in his planning (mention was made to him acquiring the fertilizer, and how it easily a red flag could have been raised) (he rented a farm house in the country about a month before the attack to quietly assemble his truck bomb)
d: Has long term goal of inspiring others to continue his cause even as he is placed in prision
e: Toward the end of the program it said contrary to news reports he tended to be a loner, and was considered "odd" by others who knew him.
f: There was a confusing report by one of the survivors who asked him to spare his life while he shot others on the beach, that he passed him by, and later it said this same person survived by hiding under the dead bodies of others. I empathize with his account, but was a bit surprised this inconsistency slipped through. I DVR'd the program and will watch it again to see if I missed something, or got my facts incorrect.

Overall, I would give the program a B .. B+. Definitely not of "60 Minutes" quality, but decent. We won't know much more until world class experts are allowed access to him.

Rhody...

The biggest punishment IMO that he can receive at the moment is not to be allowed to address the media. This is what he longs for. I still have a hard time believing he could look people in the eye up close and personal and simply execute them, there is nothing more horrendous than that, at least not to me.

Concerning f):
I believe Adrian (who I think this was) didn't believe he would be so absurdly lucky that Breivik would spare him again if he returned, and crawled under some bodies to hide.
However, in the panicked, adrenalin-rushed state of these poor youths, it is more than probable that many of them suffered auditory/optical hallucinations to put them in some type of survival hyperdrive.
Several have, for example, said that their conception of time was extremely inconsistent; sometimes it moved slowly,at other times extremely fast.

One girl who had been swimming quite some time asserted that she could hear Breivik laugh as he aimed bullets at her.
She might well have been out of hearing range at that point, or possibly not.
 
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  • #177
rhody said:
Some main points the experts made (based mostly on news reports and them examining his 1500 page rambling manifesto) and no direct contact was:

a: Has narcissistic tendencies (I agree), speaks of using makeup and looking your best before addressing the media

Yup, and he gotten the right to always dress in red when going to court (if I was in charge I would have punched his nose red and said – here you go!)

rhody said:
b: Wants to be the center of attention (I agree)

Absolutely, some form of (severe) megalomania.

rhody said:
c: Methodical and meticulous in his planning (mention was made to him acquiring the fertilizer, and how it easily a red flag could have been raised) (he rented a farm house in the country about a month before the attack to quietly assemble his truck bomb)

The sad thing is, the police had him 'on the radar' in mars, when he ordered 150 kg aluminum powder from Poland...

rhody said:
d: Has long term goal of inspiring others to continue his cause even as he is placed in prision

Yup, but probably more delusions than anything else, in the manifest he has placed "coded" GPS coordinates for new targets around Europe, which shows the level of madness, since it’s easy for anyone to find the "code" (in URL’s), hence his "important targets" = useless crap...

rhody said:
e: Toward the end of the program it said contrary to news reports he tended to be a loner, and was considered "odd" by others who knew him.

Yup, as a member of Fremskrittspartiet he hardly spoke at all. His father had problems reaching him, and they haven’t seen each other for 15 years.

rhody said:
f: There was a confusing report by one of the survivors who asked him to spare his life while he shot others on the beach, that he passed him by, and later it said this same person survived by hiding under the dead bodies of others. I empathize with his account, but was a bit surprised this inconsistency slipped through.

This part is really confusing and horrific... imagine walking around for 1½+ hrs and in cold blood execute teenagers praying for their life... using dumdum bullets... unless he was heavily drugged, this is the proof beyond any doubts for full-blown madness...

rhody said:
The biggest punishment IMO that he can receive at the moment is not to be allowed to address the media. This is what he longs for. I still have a hard time believing he could look people in the eye up close and personal and simply execute them, there is nothing more horrendous than that, at least not to me.

Agree, it’s hard even to think about.
 
  • #178
arildno said:
Actually, Breivik is willing so far to speak of everything EXCEPT revealing accomplices.

Maybe for the simple fact that he doesn’t have any... he just wants it to look that way...
 
  • #179
pftest said:
Yes he's not normal. I think he probably has problems with empathy, like he is unable to imagine the suffering he would cause. Maybe he is able but thinks the end justifies the means. As for his demands, he might have simply expressed this as something he wants, as in "i wish the king and government resigned, the country would be better". That wouldn't be that weird, if you ask any person on the street about what kind of government they would like they would end up with something similar.

I get your point, but if you put the timeline and everything this moron has done, it does not make any sense. How many mass murderers have requested to be appointed Minister of Defense, as a first demand to cooperate? Has it ever happened before?? :bugeye:
 
  • #180
arildno said:
Concerning f):
I believe Adrian (who I think this was) didn't believe he would be so absurdly lucky that Breivik would spare him again if he returned, and crawled under some bodies to hide.
However, in the panicked, adrenalin-rushed state of these poor youths, it is more than probable that many of them suffered auditory/optical hallucinations to put them in some type of survival hyperdrive.
Several have, for example, said that their conception of time was extremely inconsistent; sometimes it moved slowly,at other times extremely fast.

One girl who had been swimming quite some time asserted that she could hear Breivik laugh as he aimed bullets at her.
She might well have been out of hearing range at that point, or possibly not.
Arildno,

I was thinking the same thing when the survivor said he saw Breivik point his weapon at him and he pleaded, "Please don't kill me". So the question in my mind is, did Breivik really spare him ? Did the young man really speak to Breivik ? It doesn't really matter at this point, but I agree with you extreme stress can do funny things to your memory. When I was having extreme pain from kidney stones, before going to hospital, time seemed to fast forward, I didn't remember a lot of lying on the floor in pain, barely able to breathe. Not fun to be sure. Maybe it is the bodies way or protecting itself.

I am sure those who survived will need counseling services for their horrible ordeal. Especially for the two men and young woman who survived the attack, who spoke calmly and matter of fact during their interview. I must admit, I was expecting one or more of them to lose it on camera, and they didn't.

Rhody...
 
  • #181
In the discovery show there was a young man who begged for his life, then Breivik turned around and yelled "today is the day you will all die" and killed someone else. Then he went to the young man and shot him in the shoulder. So it sounds like Breivik didnt try to spare him, he just aimed badly.
 
  • #182
DevilsAvocado said:
Maybe for the simple fact that he doesn’t have any... he just wants it to look that way...

It is part of his mind game.
What he is after, and he is quite clear about it, is to induce paranoia in the ruling multi-cultural elites, so that these will repress perfectly legitimate critics of multi-culturalism.
These then, within Breivik's mind, will then lose the belief in the democratic process and turn to violence instead.
To indicate that there exist a number of as yet undisclosed terror cells will maximize the probability that such a witch hunt begins.

Breivik is a nihilist and self-appointed harbinger of the apocalypse, the best way to deal with him is to have a political climate in which he is utterly irrelevant, and just a disgusting, evil aberration.
That will also hurt him the most..
 
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  • #183
arildno said:
It is part of his mind game.
What he is after, and he is quite clear about it, is to induce paranoia in the ruling multi-cultural elites, so that these will repress perfectly legitimate critics of multi-culturalism.
These then, within Breivik's mind, will then lose the belief in the democratic process and turn to violence instead.
To indicate that there exist a number of as yet undisclosed terror cells will maximize the probability that such a witch hunt begins.

Breivik is a nihilist and self-appointed harbinger of the apocalypse, the best way to deal with him is to have a political climate in which he is utterly irrelevant, and just a disgusting, evil aberration.
That will also hurt him the most..

Agree.

I don’t like to get too 'melodramatic & emotional' (except for the initial shock), but I would be lying in not admitting that this kind of "mind" frightens me...

The 'layman picture' of severe mental illness is a person in total chaos, incapable of performing the simplest everyday tasks.

This is something else... and it looks like that even the professors can’t agree on what it is...
 
  • #184
DevilsAvocado said:
This is something else... and it looks like that even the professors can’t agree on what it is...
I think "evil" is the appropriate term..
 
  • #185
arildno said:
I think "evil" is the appropriate term..

For make no mistake: evil does exist in the world.

-- From President Obama's Nobel acceptance speech
 
  • #186
arildno said:
I think "evil" is the appropriate term..
lisab said:
For make no mistake: evil does exist in the world.

hum... suddenly I’ve got a weird feeling there’s something wrong with my username... [STRIKE]D[/STRIKE]evils[STRIKE]Avocado[/STRIKE]... can one change...? :uhh:

Seriously, you are both right, it’s just (stupid) me who wants a "clinical & logical explanation", where possible no 'logic' can be found – just pure evil.

It’s just that Norway is the last place on Earth I suspected this kind evilness could 'arise'... maybe if it had been on Kim Jong-Il’s backyard... it would have been easier to digest...
 
  • #187
Arildno for Norwegian PM
 
  • #188
arildno said:
It is part of his mind game.
What he is after, and he is quite clear about it, is to induce paranoia in the ruling multi-cultural elites, so that these will repress perfectly legitimate critics of multi-culturalism.
These then, within Breivik's mind, will then lose the belief in the democratic process and turn to violence instead.
[...]

Breivik is a nihilist and self-appointed harbinger of the apocalypse, the best way to deal with him is to have a political climate in which he is utterly irrelevant, and just a disgusting, evil aberration.
That will also hurt him the most..
Interestingly that is also a near perfect description of, and prescription for, the late Osama Bin Laden and Sayyid Qutb before him in Egypt.
 
  • #189
Apparently the police in norway say that Breivik has videotaped his utoya rampage, but they haven't found the camera yet.
 
  • #190
I came across this video which addresses the issue of who is also responsible for Breiviks acts (right wing, antiislamists, the media, religion, or other):



Of course this is his personal opinion but i think he makes some good points. It seems like he actually read (at least parts of) Breiviks manuscript and that Breivik himself described what lead him to do what he did.
 
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  • #191
pftest said:
... It seems like he actually read (at least parts of) Breiviks manuscript and that Breivik himself described what lead him to do what he did.

Well, that would be a little bit like reading Mein Kampf to find 'logical' motives for Adolf Hitler’s Holocaust, wouldn’t it?
 
  • #192
Is it wrong to read "Mein Kampf" in order to ascertain those elements in Hitler's personal life that he himself regarded as pivotal in shaping his outlook?

If it is, in some weird fashion, wrong to do so, what individuals have more authority to establish the correct factors of Hitler's radicalization than Hitler himself?
 
  • #193
Sure, but I do think you missed 'logical' in my post...

(watch the video, if you haven’t)
 
  • #194
I've seen the video.
It is complete nonsense, and malevolent nonsense as that, to hold Pamela Geller or Robert Spencer "morally" responsible for Breivik's actions.
But that is precisely what New York Times and other idiot media outlets are trying to do.
Anything further you would say upon the matter?
 
  • #195
Because Breivik planned his acts meticulously and well in advance, i wouldn't be surprised if he has some plans for what to do during captivity. His intent seemed to be to cause maximum shock to society, and unless he completely changed his mind, he is going to continue this while in custody. Basically i would expect him to behave like a troll (a norwegian term...). The other day the dutch news reported that he videotaped his shootings on utoya, but that the police hadnt found the camera yet. I am starting to think that this is a nonsense story, because i haven't seen it reported elsewhere. But the first thing that came to mind was that he buried the camera somewhere and that its uploaded the video to some website (its all possible nowadays) and that he when given the chance to talk publicly, can release its url/password, or the coordinates of where its buried. This is something that would fit right in his goal, what's more shocking than hearing about a mass killing, than seeing it on video a few weeks later? I am probably off into conspiracy land here, buts hope it doesn't happen.
 
  • #196
arildno said:
I've seen the video.
It is complete nonsense, and malevolent nonsense as that, to hold Pamela Geller or Robert Spencer "morally" responsible for Breivik's actions.
But that is precisely what New York Times and other idiot media outlets are trying to do.
Anything further you would say upon the matter?
I didnt know they were blaming right wing people in america until i saw that video. I thought it was limited to the netherlands where they are blaming Geert Wilders (who is mentioned in breiviks manuscript and also the video on the previous page) for breiviks acts. He is a politician against islam, and because he says things like banning/taxing headscarfs, banning the quran, etc., the left wing now call him hitler, nazi, racist, dutroux(belgian childraper/killer), mentally ill, etc. Even a few pages ago in this topic a fellow dutchman started talking about how the netherlands is going to start gassing muslims... And what's the worst mr Wilders has said? Calling the headscarf a piece of cloth that should be taxed.
 
  • #197
"The other day the dutch news reported that he videotaped his shootings on utoya, but that the police hadnt found the camera yet. I am starting to think that this is a nonsense story, because i haven't seen it reported elsewhere."

It is from Norwegian media:
1. Breivik has said in his manifesto that it might be a "good thing" to film the "martyrdom operation", if he got the chance

2. The police has confirmed that video cameras were found on his FARM, and that these are now secured.

3. The police have confirmed that they have searched Utøya for electronic devices; unfortunately, they have HUNDREDS of mobiles and so on, so that they cannot as yet confirm that they have found something Breivik had with him, rather than something belonging to one of his victims.

4. The police has, as yet, not commented upon whether Breivik has said in his interrogations (40 hours+ now) that he DID film, or if he merely had planned it, but didn't do it.

That is how this facet of the Breivik case is looking at the moment.
 
  • #198
arildno said:
Is it wrong to read "Mein Kampf" in order to ascertain those elements in Hitler's personal life that he himself regarded as pivotal in shaping his outlook?

If it is, in some weird fashion, wrong to do so, what individuals have more authority to establish the correct factors of Hitler's radicalization than Hitler himself?

no, it's not wrong. unless you've got other documentation to show that Hitler wrote Mein Kampf not as reflection of his outlook, but as a way to influence others' opinions.

i was just looking at Breivik's manifesto to see if the references to MEMRI were indeed there, and the thing is just chock full of footnotes. it will be pretty easy to go back and see whose ideas he was influenced by.
 
  • #200
Actually, Norway has fairly LENIENT gun control laws:
If you sign up for an arms club, like Breivik did, and go through a few weeks' course as he did, and then appply for a gun permit, you'll get it if you haven't a criminal record. Breivik obtained his gun&rsemi-automatic rifle through entirely legal channels,without any thorough scanning of his personality or motives. It was enough, for example,to say he wanted to "shoot deer" to get his rifle.

The point is, rather, that very few Norwegians bother to get permits in the first place.

If something IS restrictive in Norwegian law, it is laws governing CARRYING permits of loaded weapons, rather than getting the guns in the first place. (Obviously, it was illegal for Breivik to carry loaded guns into a congregation of civilians, not to mention using them to massacre the youths..)
 
  • #201
Breivik returned to Utøya today.

Today, under heavy guard, Anders Breivik re-visited the scene of the horrible massacre.
This is part of the police's detailed reconstruction of the events there; Breivik is said to have a "good memory" of each murder he committed.

To get the fullest possible murder-by-murder account is NOT primarily to remove doubts of Breivik's guilt (in addition to the terrorism charges, Breivik is most likely to be charged with a specific murder charge for each victim, and attempts at murder for hundreds more), but to give the police information that they know the families of the bereaved generally wants about how, specifically, their lost one met his or her end.
 
  • #202
Bomb reconstructed according to Breivik's specifications

A major theme in the police investigations up to this point has been to clarify if Mr. Breivik actually had the knowledge and capability to make the bomb that hit Oslo.

Clearly, if he did NOT possesses such skill, there must have been accomplices.

Today, with the remains of the mixed fertilizer&diesel material found on Breivik's farm, a bomb of similar size to the one in Oslo as made along the lines specified by Breivik, and detonated at a place our armed forces have for such explosions.

The immediate results has prompted the police to say they are strengthened in the belief that Breivik was, indeed, acting alone, but that detailed analyses of the impact of this bomb had with the one in Oslo must still be carried out.
 
<h2>1. What caused the bomb blast in Oslo?</h2><p>The bomb blast in Oslo was caused by a car bomb that was detonated outside the Prime Minister's office building. The bomb was made of fertilizer and fuel oil, and was placed inside a van parked in front of the building.</p><h2>2. Were there any casualties in the bomb blast?</h2><p>Yes, there were several casualties in the bomb blast. At least eight people were killed and dozens more were injured. The casualties included both government employees and civilians.</p><h2>3. Who was responsible for the bomb blast in Oslo?</h2><p>The bomb blast in Oslo was carried out by a right-wing extremist named Anders Behring Breivik. He claimed to be acting in response to what he saw as the "Islamization" of Europe.</p><h2>4. What was the impact of the bomb blast on the PM's office building?</h2><p>The bomb blast caused significant damage to the PM's office building, shattering windows and damaging the interior. The building was deemed unsafe for use and had to be extensively renovated before it could be occupied again.</p><h2>5. How did the government respond to the bomb blast in Oslo?</h2><p>The government responded quickly to the bomb blast, declaring a state of emergency and mobilizing emergency services. The Prime Minister also addressed the nation and condemned the attack, calling for unity and resilience in the face of such violence.</p>

1. What caused the bomb blast in Oslo?

The bomb blast in Oslo was caused by a car bomb that was detonated outside the Prime Minister's office building. The bomb was made of fertilizer and fuel oil, and was placed inside a van parked in front of the building.

2. Were there any casualties in the bomb blast?

Yes, there were several casualties in the bomb blast. At least eight people were killed and dozens more were injured. The casualties included both government employees and civilians.

3. Who was responsible for the bomb blast in Oslo?

The bomb blast in Oslo was carried out by a right-wing extremist named Anders Behring Breivik. He claimed to be acting in response to what he saw as the "Islamization" of Europe.

4. What was the impact of the bomb blast on the PM's office building?

The bomb blast caused significant damage to the PM's office building, shattering windows and damaging the interior. The building was deemed unsafe for use and had to be extensively renovated before it could be occupied again.

5. How did the government respond to the bomb blast in Oslo?

The government responded quickly to the bomb blast, declaring a state of emergency and mobilizing emergency services. The Prime Minister also addressed the nation and condemned the attack, calling for unity and resilience in the face of such violence.

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