48% of Americans Believe in Darwin's Theory - How about You?

[EL]

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,706204,00.html

According to Pew Forum 48% of the American's believe in Darwin's theory of evolution. 42% believes that the human was created in current shape by a higher power and after that never evolved. (If you just ask white christians the later number is 70%.)
It would be nice to see some numbers from other countries too. How is it where you live? I would guess about 90% believe in Darwin here.

 

[matthyaouw]

I don't have any figures, but as far as I know, belief in evolution is very high where I live.

 

[Smurf]

Where I live evolution isn't a "belief".

 

[EL]

Where I live evolution isn't a "belief".

What do you mean?

 

[sssddd]

it's called theory of evolution, so it's a theory u see

 

[EL]

it's called theory of evolution, so it's a theory u see

So why can't you say you believe in a theory?
Or is this about that the word "belief" is different from the word "believe", i.e. just a spelling error?

 

[HallsofIvy]

I notice that none of these responders give any hard evidence. Certainly, a large percentage of the people I interact with everyday accept evolution but I live in the U.S.A. and I wouldn't be at all surprised at the figures given. Do you have any clear evidence that other people, perhaps people with very low educational levels or people belonging to "cults", that you never meet do not make up a fair proportion of "where you live" or believe in evolution?

 

[selfAdjoint]

I notice that none of these responders give any hard evidence. Certainly, a large percentage of the people I interact with everyday accept evolution but I live in the U.S.A. and I wouldn't be at all surprised at the figures given. Do you have any clear evidence that other people, perhaps people with very low educational levels or people belonging to "cults", that you never meet do not make up a fair proportion of "where you live" or believe in evolution?

In about 1978 I had occasion to go to lunch wih my collegues at the data center where we all worked. These were all college graduates, engineers, systems analysts and such. The conversation at table turned to evolution and I was shocked to discover that I was the only one there who believed in it. The engineers brought up that old chestnut the design of the eye, some were Christians and couldn't accept an "atheist" idea, and so on. So don't comfort yourself that it's only the ignorant - the OTHERS - who deny evolution; your neighbors are just as likely to.

 

[sssddd]

So why can't you say you believe in a theory?
Or is this about that the word "belief" is different from the word "believe", i.e. just a spelling error?

oh no my fault for not being so clear. i was comparing the theory of evolution to creationism, which is purely a belief.

 

[Smurf]

What I meant was where I come from no one asks you "Do you believe evolution?". The closest we get is "Have you about it yet?"

 

[Pengwuino]

What I meant was where I come from no one asks you "Do you
believe evolution?". The closest we get is "Have you about it yet?"

So how does that make any connection as to what people believe in? That's like saying if no one asks you if you like Toyotos, that everyone enjoys crappy automobiles. :tongue2:

I really wonder how depressing peoples lives must be if they know about everyones preferences about issues like these. I know 2 friends that are democrats. Everyone else, i have absolutely no clue about. I have no clue about everyones belief in Evolution and Creationism (notice how I didn't ignorantly say 'or'). I am utterly clueless as to what music people like except for those who cram it down your throat everytime you mention a song you heard recently that you liked and they feel like you are on the verge of monopolizing their opinions on musical genres by saying you like a certain song. I'm also very sure no one knows the same information about me either. I really don't understand how people can "know" all this stuff about other people supposedly.

 

[Vast]

I really wonder how depressing peoples lives must be if they know about everyones preferences about issues like these.

You’re seriously missing the point. The whole issue is not whether you like coffee or tea, but public education on the theory of evolution.

 

[Smurf]

I really wonder how depressing peoples lives must be if they know about everyones preferences about issues like these.

Yeah... Again, where I come from Evolution and Creationism isn't a preference, it's a matter of education.

 

[EL]

What I meant was where I come from no one asks you "Do you believe evolution?". The closest we get is "Have you about it yet?"

If you ment to write "Have you learned about it yet?" I get you. If not, I don't... :shy:

 

[marcus]

there was a relevant post at Cosmic Variance today

http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/02/the-world-eyes-american-ignorance/

part of the post is about the statistics on Ignorance in the USA.

part of the post is about the pro-evolution stance of a retired Episcopalian Bishop named J.S.Spong

what other religious leaders do you know who are in Spong's league evolutionwise?

http://tildblog.blogspot.com/2005/09/intelligent-christianity-spong-who.html

here is Spong website, he has some gay activist stuff from the looks of it, so he may champion several causes.

http://secure.agoramedia.com/spong/index_spong2.asp?sc=1&promo=8E8054FA-64A6-4100-9B08-37F4592A6F13&email=

 

[Moonbear]

So why can't you say you believe in a theory?

Technically, that would be very unscientific. It would indicate an inherent bias in your ability to objectively evaluate the theory if you "believe in" it. Instead, it is more a situation that we accept the current theory as correct because it is the only theory that 1) has withstood repeated challenges and 2) fits with all the evidence available, 3) no alternative explanation fits for both 1 and 2.

Now, here's the challenge...as a scientist, we are trained to always be a skeptic, we should question everything, including the theory of evolution. We should not just believe it without question or stop challenging it. On the other hand, someone who believes in Creationism (or any other alternative faith-based, as opposed to evidence-based, explanation) views us saying that as saying we ourselves doubt evolution is correct. To them, belief is everything...if they are proponents of Creationism, they aren't overly concerned if the evidence fits or not. So, there's a challenge in sounding sufficiently confident that evolution is the best theory available, which it is, without turning it into a case of "my beliefs vs your beliefs."

 

[WhiteWolf]

Well, I disagree there, because many athiests depend on the "faith" of evolutionism to be true. They review the facts and the evidence supporting Darwinism, and many think that has more going for it then Christianity. But some of those athiests may have left Christianity to become an evolutionist. Therefore, they have faith that evolutionism is true because if they are wrong and Christianity was right, then they will end up spending an eternity in hell. Sometimes evolutionism becomes a religion to some people rather then a theory. So I guess depending on the person and the circumstances, you can "believe" in Darwinism. There are some things in this world that can never be proved. Christianity cannot prove everything either with the bible.

 

[selfAdjoint]

I believe in evolution because (a) the mechanism works; whenever you have reproduction by combining definitions with random variation combined with competition with winners going on to the future and losers falling by the wayside, you get "hereditary change" to the point that descendent populations can't combine definitions - i.e you get species. And this has been demonstrated by computer simulations. And (b) the hypotheses of the mechanism are present in natural organisms, so it wil presumable work there. And (c) the genomes from yeast to humans show massive similarities with subtle variation and if you organize the variations by similarity you get the chain of evolutionary ancestry.

So how is that "religious faith?" Looks like taking the evidence seriously, to me.

 

[EL]

Technically, that would be very unscientific...

Sure, but I've never claimed "believing" to be scientific. My objection was to the statement made by sssddd (which he later explained wasn't what he ment) that since it is a theory one can not believe in it. Of course you can believe in Darwin's theory of evolution (in the same way as people believe in God or Santa), although it's not a scientific thing to do.

 

[Smurf]

If you ment to write "Have you learned about it yet?" I get you. If not, I don't... :shy:

Typo... yes...

 

[EL]

Typo... yes...

Great. Canada seems to be a healthy place...

 

[Smurf]

Great. Canada seems to be a healthy place...

I wouldn't be so quick to generalize "Canada" like that. We have our Christian fundamentalists too, but they mostly live in Texas North (i.e. Alberta). In fact, I pretty much dislike all of Canada except BC and the Maritimes.

A more correct statement would be "British Columbia seems to be a healthy place" imho.

 

[EL]

I wouldn't be so quick to generalize "Canada" like that. We have our Christian fundamentalists too, but they mostly live in Texas North (i.e. Alberta). In fact, I pretty much dislike all of Canada except BC and the Maritimes.

A more correct statement would be "British Columbia seems to be a healthy place" imho.

Ah, Ok. And I who always have been a fan of the Flames. Maybe I have to think that over...

 

[Smurf]

Ah, Ok. And I who always have been a fan of the Flames. Maybe I have to think that over...

I don't usually care where a team is from. I mean, here I am having been a fan of the wings since I was 10. But yeah, I refuse to have anything to do with Alberta.

 

[Phobos]

believe/accept - It's semantics that confuses everyone, but Moonbear is right that a scientific theory is presented to be accepted or rejected and not "believed in" as a matter of faith or an instinct/gut-feeling.

Sure, WhiteWolf has a point that some people can "believe" in evolution in that they accept it as a matter of worldview without ever opening page 1 of a biology textbook. But that is not the intent of the theory. The theory is built up from various lines of verifiable evidences with the only "belief" being the scientific philosophy (axioms) that reality exists, is understandable, and that it follows natural laws.

So if you've studied it, you should accept/reject it. If you believe/don't believe in it, you should study it. In other words...everyone should study it! Yay science education! :)

 

[EL]

I don't usually care where a team is from. I mean, here I am having been a fan of the wings since I was 10. But yeah, I refuse to have anything to do with Alberta.

So, you're a fan of an american team?! That's really "unpatriotic" (and I think I like it ).

Yeah, whatever, neither Hakan Loob or Theo Fleury play for the Flames anymore, so I'll dump them.
Go Flyers!

 

[Smurf]

Well the only reason I really liked the wings was because of Dominik Hasek

 

[Ophiolite]

This extract seems relevant to the original question.
The western world outside the United States
Because most vocal creationists are from the United States, it is generally assumed that creationist views are not as common elsewhere. Statistics are not clear on the issue.
According to a PBS documentary on evolution, Australian Young Earth Creationists claimed that “five percent of the Australian population now believe that Earth is thousands, rather than billions, of years old.” The documentary further states that “Australia is a particular stronghold of the creationist movement.” Taking these claims at face value, “young-earth” creationism is very much a minority position in Western countries other than the USA.
In Europe, creationism is a less well defined phenomenon, and regular polls are not available; however, the option of teaching creationism in school has never been seriously considered in any Western European country. In Roman Catholic-majority countries, papal acceptance of evolution as worthy of study has essentially ended debate on the matter for many people. Nevertheless, creationist groups such as the German Studiengemeinschaft Wort und Wissen[1] (http://www.wort-und-wissen.de/) are actively lobbying there as well. In the United Kingdom the Emmanuel Schools Foundation (previously the Vardy Foundation), which owns two colleges in the north of England and plans to open several more, teaches that creationism and evolution are equally valid “faith positions.” In Italy, the prime minister Silvio Berlusconi wanted to retire evolution from schools in the middle level; after one week of massive protests, he reversed his opinion. [2] (http://www2.onnachrichten.t-online.de/dyn/c/19/01/33/1901336.html )
Of particular note for Eastern Europe, Serbia suspended the teaching of evolution for one week in 2004, under education minister Ljiljana Colic, only allowing schools to reintroduce evolution into the curriculum if they also taught creationism. [3] (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai....xml&sSheet=/news/2004/09/09/ixworld.html) "After a deluge of protest from scientists, teachers and opposition parties," says the BBC report, Ms. Colic's deputy made the statement, "I have come here to confirm Charles Darwin is still alive," and announced that the decision was reversed. [4] (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3642460.stm) Ms. Colic resigned after the government said that she had caused "problems that had started to reflect on the work of the entire government". [5] (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3663196.stm)
Source: http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Creationism

 

[Smurf]

Yeah well we already knew Australia is becoming the 50th (51st?) state.

 

[WhiteWolf]

believe/accept - It's semantics that confuses everyone, but Moonbear is right that a scientific theory is presented to be accepted or rejected and not "believed in" as a matter of faith or an instinct/gut-feeling.
Sure, WhiteWolf has a point that some people can "believe" in evolution in that they accept it as a matter of worldview without ever opening page 1 of a biology textbook. But that is not the intent of the theory. The theory is built up from various lines of verifiable evidences with the only "belief" being the scientific philosophy (axioms) that reality exists, is understandable, and that it follows natural laws.
So if you've studied it, you should accept/reject it. If you believe/don't believe in it, you should study it. In other words...everyone should study it! Yay science education! :)

Yes, that is what I think as well. However, again, some people consider what is written in the Bible to be solid fact. I think that is rediculous, but they consider everything in biology textbooks to be 'theory'. So sometimes you can 'believe' in it, without it being a religion. Faith is really nothing more then believing and hoping something is true. If you go with the biology textbook and you were formerly a devote Christian, then that usually means you are dumping the Bible. (Only in the sense that some parts conflict with each other.) So not considering evolutionism is a religion, you take faith in it being true because you left something that you once considered fact to accept something that conflicts with the facts that you formerly believed in. Also, after you make that decsision, you have faith in it being true, because you were taught that you would go to hell for 'believing' in it. So in some cases it goes into a faith based thing even if the particular person knows all the facts about it and accepted it. My point was that I don't htink that anyone should generalize and say that faith in evolutionism is unscientific. Due to outside sources in society, this may have to be the case.