Can A be Countable if f is 1-1 and Onto?

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In summary, the conversation discusses the process of creating a 1-1 function g from the set of natural numbers to a subset A of a set B. This process involves setting a base case of g(1)=f(n_1), and then using induction to continue the process for all natural numbers. The goal is to show that A is countable in order to prove the existence of such a function.
  • #1
cragar
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Homework Statement


Let [itex] n_1=min(n\in\mathbb{N}:f(n){\in}A) [/itex]
As a start to a defintion of g:N→A, set [itex]g(1)=f(n_1) [/itex]
Show how to inductively continue this process to produce a 1-1 function g from
N onto A.

The Attempt at a Solution


[itex] g(1)=f(n_1) [/itex] so this is our base case for induction.
so [itex] g(2)=f(n_1+1) [/itex]
If I understand this correctly g is a function that has input values of natural numbers and maps these to the set A.
So I guess I need to show that f(n) is in A and f(n+1) is in A
By definition f(n) is in A for all n, so f(n+1) is in A for all n.
Could I maybe do a proof by contradiction and assume that f(n+1) was not in A and show that it was because n+1 is in the Naturals, therefore it works for f(n), and f(n+1)
 
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  • #2
Are there some additional assumptions that you haven't listed? It is obviously not going to be possible to construct a bijection between [itex]\mathbb{N}[/itex] and [itex]A[/itex] unless [itex]A[/itex] is countable. Also, there must be some assumption about [itex]f[/itex]. In general, the set [itex]\{n \in \mathbb{N} : f(n) \in A\}[/itex] could be empty, in which case the minimum isn't even defined.
 
  • #3
ok, you sorry, It says there exists [itex] f:\mathbb{N} --->B [/itex] which is 1-1 and onto.
Let [itex] A\subseteq B [/itex] be an infinite subset of B.We must show that A is countable. The question was phrased in 2 parts and I thought they were separate.
Thanks for looking at that.
 

What is inductive proof?

Inductive proof is a method of logical reasoning used in mathematical and scientific fields. It involves making observations and using them to form a general conclusion or theory.

How is inductive proof different from deductive proof?

Deductive proof starts with a general theory or premise and uses logical reasoning to draw specific conclusions. Inductive proof, on the other hand, starts with specific observations and uses them to form a general theory or conclusion.

What are the steps involved in an inductive proof?

The steps in an inductive proof are as follows: 1) Make specific observations, 2) Identify patterns or trends in the observations, 3) Form a general hypothesis or theory based on the patterns, 4) Test the hypothesis using further observations or experiments, 5) If the hypothesis is supported, it can be considered a valid inductive proof.

What are the limitations of inductive proof?

Inductive proof is not considered as strong as deductive proof because it is based on observations and patterns, rather than logical reasoning. Additionally, the general conclusion or theory reached through inductive proof is not guaranteed to be true, as there may be exceptions or counterexamples that have not been observed yet.

Where is inductive proof used in science?

Inductive proof is commonly used in the scientific method, where observations and experiments are used to form and test hypotheses. It is also used in statistical analysis and data interpretation to make general conclusions about a population based on a sample.

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