Massive Yet Tiny (TM) Engine: Revolutionary Technology or Too Good to Be True?

[RainmanAero]

Hi Folks,

I've been enjoying the time off work for the holidays, and trying not to think about engineering and stuff... but once it becomes a way of life it is hard to stay away from it. I just found the following on the "Massive Yet Tiny (MYT)-TM" engine. I am only now starting to look over this whole page, but I am wondering if anyone else has run across it and if they have found any flaws in either the analytical model or the figures that describe this patented device?

http://www.rexresearch.com/morgado/morgado.htm

It seems to good to be true, and that always raises flags. But I have read a claim that it has been run on a calibration dyno to verify its torque output. Anyone know anything? Thanks,

Rainman

 

[pritchet1]

We have added an update interview here as of today (Jan. 13, 2009) -

http://pesn.com/2009/01/13/9501512_MassiveYetTiny_Engine_to_Production/

 

[Dr.D]

If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. There is no free lunch.

The presentation is rather vague, but there is quite a bit of start-stop motion, pistons advancing to a position, stopping, and then advancing again. One has to ask what holds them only to allow them to advance again? The mechanism that would allow this seems likely to be prone to mechanical failures, so again, there is no free lunch.

Don't spend your lunch money on stock in this venture.

 

[mgb_phys]

It's not outright snake oil - it's not claiming perpetual motion or >100% efficency.
It takes some ideas from the Wankel engine and Deltic diesel - but is likely to have the same problems in practice as they do, complexity, lubrication, wear and precision etc.

 

[rolls]

Anyone heard anymore about this?

 

[Danger]

There is actually another thread about this somewhere nearby.

 

[rolls]

ooer, anyone got a link? Ill try searching again.

 

[chayced]

I like the design. It's cute. But the problem is that the new orientation of the pistons causes a whole new slew of problems. You have rings that get no lubrication because both sides are exposed to combustion. The pistons connect to their linkages through the cylinder wall which provides a place for leakage and leak-by. These are not insurmountable problems, but we've had 100 years to fix the similar problems on conventional engines. Since we already have cheap conventional engines and we don't have 100 years the MYT engine has to be better and cheaper in a very short period of time and with only a small amount of money for R&D otherwise regardless of it's potential it will fail.

 

[tyroman]

chayced,

Some good points. Prompted me to take a closer look at the (very detailed) patent drawings at;

http://www.rexresearch.com/morgado/morgado.htm

The rings (# 70 in FIG_14) would not actually be "rings" - more like ~330 degree crescents. They could be oiler type "rings" supplied through gallies machined in the rotor/piston. (Note: FIG_14 appears to me to be incorrectly drawn. If (for example) the ring is mounted on the piston which is part of the rotor (69) on the right, then you should be able to see the ~30 degrees of the ring which is covered by the left rotor (68) in the figure.)

A question arises here - what about the oil pressure/flow as an oiler ring passes the inlet and outlet ports? An oiler ring perforated in this location would spray oil into the intake and exhaust ports. A ring which is not perforated at the apex to prevent the above, would wear out sooner.

Gallies would also need to be machined in the rotors to supply the ring (76) in the annular grooves (68c & 69c) between the rotors and the rings (77) in the annular grooves (68d & 69d) between each rotor and the central section and end cover (52 & 53). These three rings (which complete the seal of the toroidial cylinder) are not so problematic.

.

 

[chayced]

Hmm... Would work great if you throw some two stroke oil in the gas. Come to think of it, don't two strokes run the rings across the exhaust port? Maybe this isn't such a far fetched idea. Running off a good slick diesel It might work without oilers. Still need oil for the rotors, but that's not insurmountable. Sure hope we see this one again.

But again, it still has 100 years of catching up to do in a very short period of time.

The thing that really has me worried is that we have yet to see a running prototype. No running on compressed air does not count. The idea seems sound but if they either haven't been able to get it to run or have problems so severe that they cannot display it yet then it may already be a lost cause.