?Do you have to integrate velocity (v) to get the position function r(t)?

In summary, the conversation discusses the process of finding the position function r(t) by integrating velocity (v) and the equations and techniques used to do so. The solution to the problem is also discussed, with special attention given to the maximum distance from the planet and the impact of minimum points on the particle's movement.
  • #36


cloud360 said:
as the bracket 2g/gamma(stuff inside bracket), part is positive?
The quantity

[tex]\frac{2g}{\gamma}(e^{-\gamma r} - e^{-\gamma R}) [/tex]

is not positive; it's negative. Because r>R, i.e. the particle is above the planet's surface, the first exponential will be smaller than the second exponential, right?
cloud360 said:
so we let

V^2=2g/(gamma*e^(-gamma*R))
The original inequality actually gives you

[tex]V^2 \ge \frac{2g}{\gamma} e^{-\gamma R}[/tex]

The exponential isn't in the denominator. So now you have

[tex]v^2 = V^2 + \frac{2g}{\gamma}(e^{-\gamma r} - e^{-\gamma R}) \ge \frac{2g}{\gamma} e^{-\gamma R} + \frac{2g}{\gamma}(e^{-\gamma r} - e^{-\gamma R}) [/tex]
 
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  • #37


vela said:
The quantity

[tex]\frac{2g}{\gamma}(e^{-\gamma r} - e^{-\gamma R}) [/tex]

is not positive; it's negative. Because r>R, i.e. the particle is above the planet's surface, the first exponential will be smaller than the second exponential, right?

The original inequality actually gives you

[tex]V^2 \ge \frac{2g}{\gamma} e^{-\gamma R}[/tex]

The exponential isn't in the denominator. So now you have

[tex]v^2 = V^2 + \frac{2g}{\gamma}(e^{-\gamma r} - e^{-\gamma R}) \ge \frac{2g}{\gamma} e^{-\gamma R} + \frac{2g}{\gamma}(e^{-\gamma r} - e^{-\gamma R}) [/tex]

Now do we find the limit?
 
  • #38


vela said:
The quantity

[tex]\frac{2g}{\gamma}(e^{-\gamma r} - e^{-\gamma R}) [/tex]

is not positive; it's negative. Because r>R, i.e. the particle is above the planet's surface, the first exponential will be smaller than the second exponential, right?

The original inequality actually gives you

[tex]V^2 \ge \frac{2g}{\gamma} e^{-\gamma R}[/tex]

The exponential isn't in the denominator. So now you have

[tex]v^2 = V^2 + \frac{2g}{\gamma}(e^{-\gamma r} - e^{-\gamma R}) \ge \frac{2g}{\gamma} e^{-\gamma R} + \frac{2g}{\gamma}(e^{-\gamma r} - e^{-\gamma R}) [/tex]

cloud360 said:
Now do we find the limit?
No.
First, simplify the expression at the right in the inequality above.
Next, remind yourself what question you're trying to answer (part d of this problem).
Does the simplified inequality suggest an answer to this question?
 
  • #39


Mark44 said:
No.
First, simplify the expression at the right in the inequality above.
Next, remind yourself what question you're trying to answer (part d of this problem).
Does the simplified inequality suggest an answer to this question?
Following your help, i have attached my solution.Please can you kindly tell me if it is correct or not?
[PLAIN]http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/4393/2010b5d.gif
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #40


You're going through a lot of motions that you don't need.
You're given that
[tex]V \geq \sqrt{2g/\gamma}e^{-\gamma R/2}[/tex]
[tex]\Rightarrow V^2 \geq 2g/\gamma e^{-\gamma R}[/tex]


In your first inequality, you can say this
[tex]v^2 = V^2 + \frac{2g}{\gamma}(e^{-\gamma r} - e^{-\gamma R})[/tex]
[tex]\geq 2g/\gamma e^{-\gamma R} + \frac{2g}{\gamma}(e^{-\gamma r} - e^{-\gamma R})[/tex]
[tex]= 2g/\gamma e^{-\gamma r} [/tex]
[tex]\text{So } v^2 \geq 2g/\gamma e^{-\gamma r} [/tex]

The line where you have
r' >= sqrt(2g/gamma * e^{- gamma * r) is incorrect.

If y2 >= A, with A a positive number,
then y >= sqrt(A) or y <= -sqrt(A)
It is incorrect to say that y >= +/-sqrt(A).

What you should have is
[tex] v \geq \sqrt{2g/\gamma e^{-\gamma r}} [/tex]

You don't need to concern yourself with negative values of v, since if v < 0, the particle is moving back toward the planet. We're interested only in the case where the particle is moving in the positive direction; i.e., v > 0, and the particle is moving away from the planet.

Most of what you have in the last seven or eight lines should go away, as it is either unnecessary or incorrect.

Since you have shown that v (= r') > 0, it's not zero, so the particle never stops, and continues moving away from the planet. That's all you need to say.
 
  • #41


Mark44 said:
You're going through a lot of motions that you don't need.
You're given that
[tex]V \geq \sqrt{2g/\gamma}e^{-\gamma R/2}[/tex]
[tex]\Rightarrow V^2 \geq 2g/\gamma e^{-\gamma R}[/tex]


In your first inequality, you can say this
[tex]v^2 = V^2 + \frac{2g}{\gamma}(e^{-\gamma r} - e^{-\gamma R})[/tex]
[tex]\geq 2g/\gamma e^{-\gamma R} + \frac{2g}{\gamma}(e^{-\gamma r} - e^{-\gamma R})[/tex]
[tex]= 2g/\gamma e^{-\gamma r} [/tex]
[tex]\text{So } v^2 \geq 2g/\gamma e^{-\gamma r} [/tex]

The line where you have
r' >= sqrt(2g/gamma * e^{- gamma * r) is incorrect.

If y2 >= A, with A a positive number,
then y >= sqrt(A) or y <= -sqrt(A)
It is incorrect to say that y >= +/-sqrt(A).

What you should have is
[tex] v \geq \sqrt{2g/\gamma e^{-\gamma r}} [/tex]

You don't need to concern yourself with negative values of v, since if v < 0, the particle is moving back toward the planet. We're interested only in the case where the particle is moving in the positive direction; i.e., v > 0, and the particle is moving away from the planet.

Most of what you have in the last seven or eight lines should go away, as it is either unnecessary or incorrect.

Since you have shown that v (= r') > 0, it's not zero, so the particle never stops, and continues moving away from the planet. That's all you need to say.

thanks a lot for your help :)
 

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