What happened to fuel-cell technology?


by rogerk8
Tags: fuelcell, happened, technology
mfb
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#55
Nov9-13, 10:44 AM
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Quote Quote by mheslep View Post
Does that assumption require a source?
It does:
Quote Quote by russ_watters View Post
Mythbusters did an episode on this. Their results indicate explosions are near impossible.
The results indicate even more: An open tank can continue to burn, but the fire does not get larger.
mheslep
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#56
Nov9-13, 07:26 PM
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Quote Quote by mfb View Post
It does:

The results indicate even more: An open tank can continue to burn, but the fire does not get larger.
All I'm claiming is that fire damage can occur on the order of the video I provided above, how 'explosive' that may be I have no idea, and doesn't matter much with respect to the assertion that started this discussion, "The plastic tank is safer than hydrogen under pressure. It won't explode (as we are not in a movie). A burning car is bad, but an exploding car is worse." As far as I can tell that statement is dogma.
mfb
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#57
Nov10-13, 05:43 AM
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Quote Quote by mheslep View Post
All I'm claiming is that fire damage can occur on the order of the video I provided above, how 'explosive' that may be I have no idea, and doesn't matter much with respect to the assertion that started this discussion, "The plastic tank is safer than hydrogen under pressure. It won't explode (as we are not in a movie). A burning car is bad, but an exploding car is worse." As far as I can tell that statement is dogma.
That's a burning car, it is not an explosion.

Anyway, this discussion gets pointless.
Astronuc
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#58
Nov10-13, 09:32 AM
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I witnessed a fire in a pickup truck near my home. The first started small, then grew. At some point, the fuel must have ruptured because there was a poof (not a bang) and a big fire ball, followed by a huge fire. It seemed like a low grade explosion, but the truck itself did not explode or even move.

Fires and explosions are concerns for liquid fuel srorage/transport systems, and designers try to design storage tanks such that they do not explode. Vents and pressure relief valves are one way to mitigate vessel rupture or explosion. For explosive vapors, care must be taken to combust them or recycle them to avoid uncontrolled combutsion.
OmCheeto
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#59
Nov10-13, 11:21 AM
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Does anyone know where I can purchase a 1kw hydrogen fuel cell at the DOE price of $47/kw?

The only one I've found online costs $5685!

I have more experiments to do, in the not too distant future.
etudiant
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Nov10-13, 07:31 PM
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Quote Quote by OmCheeto View Post
Does anyone know where I can purchase a 1kw hydrogen fuel cell at the DOE price of $47/kw?

The only one I've found online costs $5685!

I have more experiments to do, in the not too distant future.
The DOE did qualify that to be $47/kW for an 80kW cell in volume production of 500,000 units/yr.
So you may be looking for some extended period.

I'll take several, please, when you find them.
OmCheeto
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Nov10-13, 08:07 PM
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Quote Quote by etudiant View Post
The DOE did qualify that to be $47/kW for an 80kW cell in volume production of 500,000 units/yr.
So you may be looking for some extended period.

I'll take several, please, when you find them.
yes. I saw the 500,000 units/yr figure. (economies of scale, blah, blah....)

hmmm.....

I just checked out "HowStuffWorks" where someone described how to build one.
The link that allows you to buy platinum coated nickel: "You can order one online for 15 bucks." is dead.

I say conspiracy!

Though I see Platinum is in the same column of the periodic elements as Nickel.

I will never understand chemistry, nor Earthling economics:

Nickel: $0.40/ounce
Platinum: $1453.00/ounce


mfb
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#62
Nov11-13, 12:53 PM
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Nickel 150 ppm on earth, platinum 0.005 ppm. Heavy elements are rare, especially compared to elements up to iron.
enosis_
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#63
Dec2-13, 08:01 AM
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Quote Quote by jim hardy View Post
Folks far removed from the energy industry generally don't grasp the scale.

The world uses around a cubic mile of oil per year.
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3084



From http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/foss...hole-thing-off


,, "here" referring to this graphic from 'theoildrum'



So start today building a hundred windmills every day.
At end of fifty years, if they last that long, you'd have built enough (about 1.6 million) that you could shut off the oil spigot. Well for today's usage anyway (actually 2006's).
But the first half million you built will be getting might rickety by then....
And that's a technology problem not a political one.

But to the subject of the thread -
Hydrogen is awful stuff to handle. I would not ride in the same car with a bottle of 3000 psi hydrogen .
I do like the fuel cell idea when coupled with H2 production by reducing water with aluminum.
http://www.alumifuelinternational.com/company.html



old jim
Is this oil usage estimate strictly for fuel - or all uses?
mheslep
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Dec8-13, 08:10 PM
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Quote Quote by enosis_ View Post
Is this oil usage estimate strictly for fuel - or all uses?
Does it matter? The non-fuel uses, chemical feed stocks and the like, are a relatively small fraction of the total.


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