Convert Your Car to Run on Water: Plans, Drawings, and Reviews"

[saad ahmed khan]

hello every one
while surfing i came across this site
http://netmar.com/~maat/archive/feb2/carplans.htm

it has some plans and drawings for adapting an ordinary petrol/gasoline engine to run on water

i just started university as a mechanical engineer may be i will take this as a final year project

but first i wish to know reviews from you people as well as construction tips ideas problems etc i don't have much experience with engines as i can't get opportunities or time to visit garages and auto shops, though i have a little bit of experience in electronics.

i would like all of you to help me and yourselves
think about the savings we could make

think clean think water

thanx in advance to any would be helpers

 

[Mech_Engineer]

This has been discussed several times, the definitive answer is that water is a BYPRODUCT of a combustion process, not a fuel for one. There is no way to make a combustion engine to run off of water unless you first separate it into hydrogen and oxygen, which takes a lot of energy. Energy can be stored using water through electrolosis, but any energy you get from the burning of hydrogen and oxygen must first have been put into it.

Running a conventional combustion engine off of hydrogen by itself is not a very good idea either because hydrogen is very low in energy content, meaning any car running off of it will produce little power and not get very good mileage.

There is no significant amount of energy available in water by itself for use in a vehicle.

 

[Danger]

I read as much as I could of that link... enough to know that the site is a crock. They are indeed proposing an on-board electrolysis unit controlled by the throttle. Somewhere along the line, they forgot that the electricity needed for the process has to come from somewhere, and it can't be sustained by the engine through an alternator system.
They also are using figures and even definitions that are out of whack by miles. Do youself a favour and block that site from your browser.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

I want to see the citation for the site's claim that the Department of Energy says there is up to 40% more energy stored in water than gasoline

 

[carp]

I thought of this idea when I was 15 years old, and It still didn't take long for me to realize that this idea is a load of BS. There are tons of sites just like the one you linked to and absolutely none of them have much basis on real science. Don't waste your time.

carp
PropulsionAccess.com

 

[russ_watters]

You do not want to work on this as an important ME project. It is crackpottery.

 

[brewnog]

If you've started a degree in mechanical engineering, you really should know the answer to this yourself. Not only is it the first thing you get taught in thermodynamics, it's basic common sense. Which university are you at?

 

[Danger]

I want to see the citation for the site's claim that the Department of Energy says there is up to 40% more energy stored in water than gasoline

It's either just totally made-up, or some idiot confused 'specific impulse' with energy. Hydrogen and oxygen burning is more efficient than gasoline and oxygen. I have no idea what the actual SI numbers are, though. I know that the Saturn V with kerosene and oxygen was something like 450 seconds, and the NERVA with pure hydrogen (no oxydizer) at 2,700 degrees C. put out about 1,100 seconds (to the best of my feable memory capacity).

 

[Mech_Engineer]

I'm quite sure the entire thing is made up without any real engineering work having been put into it. :rofl:

 

[Danger]

Most likely.

 

[saad ahmed khan]

thanks for those replies

ok guys
i myself felt a bit unsure about this project
so i am waiting till these guys at the website come up with solid working proof pics and videos

better still i should contact the mythbusters from the discovery channel
they could solve this problem

however i came across a video on another forum abt cars its of a corrolla that uses water as a fuel problem is its not in english so i don't know what to make of it, and i have the video but don't remember where i got it from
can i upload it though that would take a heck of a long time me being a poor dialup user :(

about the fuel cells. they are supposed to work for electric vehicals only right that use electronic motor and no engines. i could take up those project but an electronic car is expensive to build
abt the project i am not serious, heck i just started university and will learn more.
also can you point me to websites about car engines etc, i can't get first hand info abt this like electronics. i can buy electronics components easily but not engines

thanks for enlightening me

 

[brewnog]

Saad, don't ever let yourself be fooled into believing that water is a fuel. It is not. You don't need Mythbusters to show you that water is an exhaust product of hydrogen combustion, not a fuel source.

Fuel cells are well understood. These run using hydrogen as fuel; a simple google search will yield many useful sites.

 

[Danger]

If you get Discovery Channel, then there's a fair chance that you also get Spike. Start watching the Power Block series (Muscle Car, Horsepower, Xtreme 4x4, etc.). It can teach you a lot about engines as well as other aspects of vehicular design. It wouldn't be my first choice for a definitive education, but it's certainly a decent start.

 

[paddy-boy66]

surely you can use some of the engines heat energy to heat water into steam and run some of the car off steam.
www.steamcar.co.uk/

 

[brewnog]

Course you can paddy. But the water there is not fuel, it's just a medium by which to transfer heat.

 

[saad ahmed khan]

did you guys see the circuit that is enclosed in the plans
can it really do what it is meant to do i.e.break water into hydrogen and oxygen can anyone verify that circuit or test it

also i just wanted to ask if suppose that we had hydrogen and oxygen in the gas form then could a mixture of it be used to run a car, not keeping in mind any disasters or other impacts

 

[banerjeerupak]

Well the whole thing is a hoax, but the concept to using water for the heat transfer is the same as used by Crower in his six stroke engine...

 

[carp]

It is possible to break water into hydrogen and oxygen using electricity. It is called electrolysis. The setup used to do this is simple. You simply need a source of electricity connected to two electrodes (and an electrolyte dissolved in the water to conduct the electricity).

As for your second question, yes, it is possible to run an engine off of gaseous hydrogen and oxygen, although it is technically challenging.

carp
PropulsionAccess.com

 

[brewnog]

It's possible to run a normal (slightly modified) engine to run on a hydrogen and oxygen mixture, but it's extremely knock prone.

It's also possible to split water into hydrogen and oxygen, but this requires an energy input.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

did you guys see the circuit that is enclosed in the plans
can it really do what it is meant to do i.e.break water into hydrogen and oxygen can anyone verify that circuit or test it

also i just wanted to ask if suppose that we had hydrogen and oxygen in the gas form then could a mixture of it be used to run a car, not keeping in mind any disasters or other impacts

The point is that you need an energy input to break water into hydrogen and oxygen, so where would you get the energy? When you burn a hydrogen/oxygen mixture the only energy available from the reaction is whatever energy was theoretically put into it from the electrolysis process, which means there is no available excess energy to drive the car.

Just give up, this hoax will not work :grumpy: It's basic conservation of energy.

 

[russ_watters]

ok guys
i myself felt a bit unsure about this project
so i am waiting till these guys at the website come up with solid working proof pics and videos

better still i should contact the mythbusters from the discovery channel
they could solve this problem

You did say you are an engineer, right? As others said, it is a little disturbing that you needed to ask the question or that you'd like to refer the problem to MythBusters.

 

[saad ahmed khan]

i said i had just begun a mechanical engineering course
this water as a fuel does appear to be a myth hence the myth busters
and from the replies......i guess that water as a fuel will remain a dream

also abt ethanol, its a cheaper alternative to petrol, but in my country there is only one petrol pump selling e10 fuel which is actually 10% ethanol and 90% petrol. can anyone enlighten me on the problem of running a car totaly on ethanol, i heard somewhere that ethanol can give better pickups in car due to the oxygen present in it. nitrous oxide does the same due to the extra oxygen present which is inject along with the fuel. correct me if i am wrong.
thanks

 

[Mech_Engineer]

also abt ethanol, its a cheaper alternative to petrol, but in my country there is only one petrol pump selling e10 fuel which is actually 10% ethanol and 90% petrol. can anyone enlighten me on the problem of running a car totaly on ethanol, i heard somewhere that ethanol can give better pickups in car due to the oxygen present in it. nitrous oxide does the same due to the extra oxygen present which is inject along with the fuel. correct me if i am wrong.
thanks

Ethanol is a pretty good fuel for running a car on, but you have to make sure all of the seals in your engine are made to handle the alcohol as a regular gasoline engine that was not specifically designed to be "flex-fuel compatible" will not run for very long on it. That being said, ethanol's energy content is somewhat lower than that of gasoline, so an engine running off of pure ethanol will make less horsepower and get worse fuel mileage than that of the same engine running on gasoline.

You know, a simple search on "alternative fuels" will give you VAST amounts of information, all it will take is typing it in on Google...

 

[saad ahmed khan]

If you've started a degree in mechanical engineering, you really should know the answer to this yourself. Not only is it the first thing you get taught in thermodynamics, it's basic common sense. Which university are you at?

helllo i have just done 3 months of the course and i am studying basic physics chemistry and maths
thermodynamics is in our 2nd semester

 

[Darryl]

assume your engine is 100% efficient, (its really 20% to 25% tops)
(it will produce NO heat only mechanical energy.)
assume your generator is 100% efficient
and that your electrolysis conversion process is 100% efficient.

Then you will ONLY generatate enough power to make your hydrogen.

which does not leave you a great deal of power to move you along the road. (unless its downhill). !

 

[saad ahmed khan]

SO ethanol as a fuel alone can not be used rather a mixture of it with gasoline is a much better choice btw i hear that pure ethanol is used in brazil anybody know how?

 

[Mech_Engineer]

100% Ethanol CAN be used as fuel by itself (and is done by several vehicles currently being manufactured, search Flex-Fuel on the internet), what I'm trying to tell you is that it doesn't work as well as Gasoline.

 

[triden]

Last I read the main reason for using E85 fuel or another Ethanol blend is for enviromental friendliness. It burns a lot cleaner with less hydrocarbons and oxides of Nitrogen. I don't think ethanol burns as hot as gasoline. That's why race cars that run on alcohol don't need radiators. There is more behind the chemistry of burning Ethanol than I know, so google around to see what you can find. Make sure that the links you find are a little more credible and don't shoot BS around.

 

[Danger]

Another aspect of ethanol is that it raises the octane rating of normal pump gas. If your compression ratio and/or timing are such that your vehicle is subject to pre-ignition, it can help. I had to use the Mohawk blend in my Roadrunner once lead was banned.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

I need to get a water/methanol injection system for my 4Runner so I can run more boost!

 

[Danger]

Just build one, dude; it's a breeze. The one that I built for the Roadrunner just uses a solenoid valve (for switching fuel tanks on a truck) plumbed into the windshield washer line. A piece of aquarium hose goes to the air cleaner, where it terminates in a .030 Datsun carb jet aimed down the throat. Arming the system triggers the solenoid, and also cuts a pair of parallel-wired Hobbs vacuum switches into the pump motor circuit. A rheostat in series with the first switch allows for adjusting the flow rate during the initial stage of injection. When the vacuum drops to 3, the second switch comes in and bypasses the resistor for full flow. A couple of lights on the dash keep track of what's happening. The reservoir is full of methyl hydrate, which can still be used to clean the windshield as needed.
One thing to be careful about, though: too much flow can wash oil from the cylinder walls and result in excessive ring wear.

 

[brewnog]

Be careful using water injection to allow you to run higher boosts. A friend bent 3 sets of valves (and as a result got through 3 engines) trying to get the optimum flow.

 

[Dreamedideas]

I am not schooled in this area but have read a few articles in which describe three methods of using water as a fuel. One and the most well known is steam which has to be heated to create preasure, therefore inadequate for modern day uses. Another uses an alkali metal ceasium (a rare gold colored chemical element) that reacts explosively when exposed to water. But since ceasium is rare and very expensive, and since other alkalis takes so much energy to purify there is no reason to futher the studies. Another chemical that reacts to water is sodium but the problem with this is the toxic exhaust.

As far as using electrolysis to create hydrogen and oxygen for use as a fuel...I think that this is very possible but the drawback to this theory is the time and energy it would take to purify the water so that you wouldn't be corroding the catalyst with garbage which over a short period of time will lessen its effectiveness (which in turn will need an increasing amount of electricity to continue the process). And then the energy it would take to consistantly create enough hydrogen and or oxygen to produce enough combustion to keep a motor running would be very high. But the most interesting problem would be injection control and containment. By the way, think of the room it would take to successfully create a full functional finished product.

 

[Gokul43201]

Another uses either an alkali metal or ceasium (a rear gold colored chemical element) that reacts explosively when exposed to water. But since ceasium is rare and very expensive, and since alkalis takes so much energy to purify there is no reason to futher the studies. Another chemical that reacts to water is sodium but the problem with this is the toxic exhaust.

Both Cesium and Sodium are alkali metals.

As far as using electrolysis to create hydrogen and oxygen for use as a fuel...I think that this is very possible but the drawback to this theory is the time and energy it would take to purify the water so that you wouldn't be corroding the catalyst with garbage which over a short period of time will lessen its effectiveness (which in turn will need an increasing amount of electricity to continue the process).

Why would the water (steam, exhaust) be impure?

 

[Dreamedideas]

I was mearly suggesting that water contains suspended solids and suspended organic matter (COD/BOD) that when subjected to electricity will be scortched covering the catalyst with a film.

yes,(lol) cesium which is also spelled 'ceasium' is an alkali as well is sodium...