Do equations in nature always have separate time and space derivatives?

In summary, the conversation revolves around the idea of whether equations describing natural phenomena always have separate time and space derivatives, or if there are cases where mixed derivatives are involved. The example of the heat equation is discussed, with the conclusion that it depends on the choice of coordinates and is not inherent to nature. The theory of General Relativity is mentioned as an example of an equation that involves mixed derivatives.
  • #1
Fu Lin
6
0
In pde, it seems to me all kinds of equations about nature phenomena have the property that time and space derivatives are separate. For example, u_t = u_xx, heat equation. So I wonder, is that always the case in nature? I mean, do you guys ever see equation describing real nature mechanism but has mixed derivatives involved, ie, has a term like u_tx? If not, is there a reason for that?

This might be a silly question, but thanks in advance.:smile:
 
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  • #2
It's not clear t me what you mean by "separate". Do you mean "no mixed derivatives", like u_xt?The heat equation in 3 space dimensions, [itex]u_t= u_{xx}+ u_{yy}+ u_{zz}[/itex] have the other space variables as "separate" as x and t. That depends entirely on your choice of coordinate system- not "nature".
 
  • #3
HallsofIvy said:
It's not clear t me what you mean by "separate". Do you mean "no mixed derivatives", like u_xt?The heat equation in 3 space dimensions, [itex]u_t= u_{xx}+ u_{yy}+ u_{zz}[/itex] have the other space variables as "separate" as x and t. That depends entirely on your choice of coordinate system- not "nature".

Yes, I mean mixed derivatives both in time and space, like [itex] u_{tx} [/itex]. For example, an equation like [itex] u_{t} = u_{tx} + u_{xx}. [/itex]
 
  • #4
Fu Lin said:
... So I wonder, is that always the case in nature? I mean, do you guys ever see equation describing real nature mechanism but has mixed derivatives involved, ie, has a term like u_tx? ...

The ultimate example is General Relativity. It mixes up all kind of derivatives, and in a non-linear way! :smile:
 
  • #5
Fu Lin said:
Yes, I mean mixed derivatives both in time and space, like [itex] u_{tx} [/itex]. For example, an equation like [itex] u_{t} = u_{tx} + u_{xx}. [/itex]
Then, as I said above, it depends entirely upon your choice of coordinates. It is always possible to find coordinate axes, in the "principal directions" that avoid mixed derivatives. It has nothing to do with "nature" or space and time.
 
  • #6
HallsofIvy said:
Then, as I said above, it depends entirely upon your choice of coordinates. It is always possible to find coordinate axes, in the "principal directions" that avoid mixed derivatives. It has nothing to do with "nature" or space and time.

Is it possible to give an example? Say, heat equation, can we change coordinate to come up a mixed derivative term? Or any example to illustrate your idea? thanks
 
  • #7
Rainbow Child said:
The ultimate example is General Relativity. It mixes up all kind of derivatives, and in a non-linear way! :smile:

thanks for reply. I have no idea about general relativity. Could you provide an easy example?
 

1. What is the concept of separation of time and space?

The separation of time and space is a scientific concept that refers to the idea that space and time are two distinct and separate entities. This means that events can occur in one location in space at different points in time, and vice versa.

2. How does the theory of relativity relate to separation of time and space?

The theory of relativity, proposed by Albert Einstein, provides the framework for understanding the separation of time and space. It states that time and space are relative and can be influenced by factors such as gravity and velocity.

3. Can time and space be separated completely?

No, according to the theory of relativity, time and space are connected and cannot be separated completely. This means that any changes in one will also affect the other.

4. What are some real-life examples of separation of time and space?

A classic example is the concept of time zones, where different regions of the world experience different times due to their location on the Earth. Another example is the delay in communication between astronauts in space and mission control on Earth due to the distance between them.

5. How is separation of time and space relevant to modern technology?

The concept of separation of time and space is crucial in the development of technologies such as GPS, which relies on precise measurements of time and distance to determine location. It is also important in fields such as astronomy and space exploration, where understanding the relationship between time and space is essential for making accurate predictions and calculations.

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