Solving a Probability Problem with 20 Chickens

In summary, the conversation discusses the problem of calculating the probability of at least 2 black chickens coming out consecutively from a group of 20 chickens. The conversation presents two different approaches to solving this problem, one using a complicated sum and the other using a simpler formula. The simpler formula can be derived by thinking of the problem as placing 5 black objects in 16 spaces formed by a string of 15 white objects, with no more than 1 black object per space. This formula is also equivalent to the formula for choosing 5 objects from a group of 20 objects, with the order of the objects not mattering.
  • #1
Ajoo
17
0
Hi, i some time ago my physics teacher asked me this problem: There are 20 chickens coming out of an hen-coop. 15 are white, 5 are black. What's the probability of at least 2 black chickens come out consecutively.

so basicly i tried to calc P = 1 - (Probability of no black chicken come out consecutively )

So i thought P = 1 - D(20,5)/C(20,5)

being D = Ways to arrange the 5 chickens in 20 "boxes" so that the 5 black never come out consecutivelly

after some thinking i figured out that
D(n,p) = D(n-2,p-1) + D(n-1,p)

which is somewhat similar to C(n,p) = C(n-1,p-1) + C(n-1,p)

So i started making some sort of pascal triangle for the D function which lead me to this complicated sum:

[tex] D(n,p) = \sum_{i=1}^{n-2p+2} C(p-3+i,p-2) \times (k-i+1) [/tex]

hope i got this right (first time using latex ^^)

well, i came to the same result as my teacher but he had a much more simple formula, to which he arrived empirically:

P = 1 - C(20-5+1,5)*15!*5!/20!

So, D(n,p)=C(n-p+1,p) i tried to deduce this formula from what i previously had but with no success. Can some1 please tell me how i could have arrived to it.

Ty

PS: By the way, I'm only in high school so try to keep it simple.:biggrin:
 
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  • #2
Here's one way:

Saying that there are no two black chickens in a row is the same as saying that every black chicken is directly in front of a white chicken, or directly in front of the end of the row.

So we can think of this as 16 spots (1 in front of each white chicken and 1 at the end) and choosing 5.

You should be able to generalize from there.
 
  • #3
How many ways are there of putting k black objects in the n+1 spaces formed by a string of n white objects, with no more than 1 black object per space ?

Edit : This seems to be exactly what Nate was saying. The spots threw me! I guess I'm a space person.
 

1. How do I calculate the probability of getting a specific number of chickens out of 20?

To calculate the probability, you need to first determine the total number of possible outcomes. In this case, the total number of outcomes is 2^20, since each chicken can either be present or absent. Then, you need to determine the number of favorable outcomes, which can be calculated using the combination formula (nCr) where n is the total number of trials (20) and r is the desired number of chickens. The probability is then the number of favorable outcomes divided by the total number of outcomes.

2. Can I use the same formula to calculate the probability for different numbers of chickens?

Yes, you can use the same formula to calculate the probability for any desired number of chickens. Just make sure to adjust the values of n and r accordingly.

3. How can I increase the chances of getting a certain number of chickens?

There are a few ways to increase the chances of getting a specific number of chickens. One way is to increase the total number of trials (20 in this case), which will increase the total number of possible outcomes. Another way is to selectively breed the chickens to increase the likelihood of certain traits being passed down to their offspring.

4. What is the probability of getting exactly 10 chickens out of 20?

The probability of getting exactly 10 chickens out of 20 can be calculated using the same formula mentioned in the first question. The number of favorable outcomes in this case would be the number of ways to choose 10 chickens out of 20, which can be calculated using the combination formula (nCr).

5. Can I use the same formula for any type of probability problem involving chickens?

The formula used to calculate the probability for getting a specific number of chickens out of 20 can be applied to any type of probability problem involving chickens, as long as the number of trials and desired outcome remain the same. However, the formula may vary for different types of probability problems, so it is important to carefully consider the specific problem at hand before applying any formula.

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