What Can You Do to Stop the Cruelty of Fur?

[qspeechc]

I just saw this clip seconds ago, and I was utterly disgusted by this. This footage is gruesome. DO NOT WATCH IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE. I'm not kidding.
Please, let us unite to do something about this. Sadly, I don't know what exactly needs to be done.

 

[Math Is Hard]

I never wear fur. It's so passe. To me, women in fur coats look like hookers.

 

[ShawnD]

Seems more anti-chinese than anti-fur. This is why I don't like Chinese people

edit: MIH is right. Women in fur really do look like prostitutes.

 

[Kurdt]

It won't load for me. I wouldn't like to deny a person living by traditional means their fur coat however.

 

[qspeechc]

Er, just to add this- is this kind of posting allowed? I'm afraid I'll get banned for this or something :uhh:

 

[Evo]

PETA threads normally generate flame wars, we've had a number of them and they have to be closed. Since I can't view the links right now, I'll let another moderator decide if it is too graphic.

 

[theCandyman]

It's pretty graphic. It's worse than the clips of the meat packing industry cruelty, IMO.

 

[jhicks]

PETA threads normally generate flame wars, we've had a number of them and they have to be closed. Since I can't view the links right now, I'll let another moderator decide if it is too graphic.

I moved the time in the video to a random place in the video and it showed a chinese guy stomping the guts out of a raccoon's head. Graphic enough?

 

[Evo]

I moved the time in the video to a random place in the video and it showed a chinese guy stomping the guts out of a raccoon's head. Graphic enough?

Ok, based on that, I'm removing the links, but let's continue the discussion.

 

[tribdog]

I moved the time in the video to a random place in the video and it showed a chinese guy stomping the guts out of a raccoon's head. Graphic enough?

I've never stomped on a raccoon's head, but I did have a Davy Crockett coonskin cap I wore on my head. small world

 

[lisab]

My 15-1/2 YO daughter is a vegan. She shows this stuff to me all the time. She knows I'm a softie and I can't stomach to watch.

Some of the clips, especially those from overseas, are just beyond sickening.

I suspect I'll be vegan, or maybe just vegetarian, before too long. But I could never wear fur - I find it repulsive.

 

[wolram]

One time i saw a vet wearing a horse glove.

 

[tribdog]

I find most fur repulsive, but I've got some slippers made from baby seals that I'll fight to keep.

 

[Moonbear]

The best action to take is to stop believing PETA's propaganda in any way represents reality. Now they're complaining about wool...yeesh...you get wool by giving the sheep the equivalent of a haircut, which they need to not get too hot in summer anyway, and send them merrily back out to pasture.

 

[jim mcnamara]

It's actually cruel to leave certain breeds of sheep unshorn for long periods.
Where I'm from there are churro sheep with four (read: 4) horns, that when left too long unshorn in pasture cannot walk very well. They start to look like cotton balls with toothpicks stuck in them.

Pictures:
http://www.ausbcomp.com/redman/churro_project.htm

 

[Moonbear]

It's actually cruel to leave certain breeds of sheep unshorn for long periods.
Where I'm from there are churro sheep with four (read: 4) horns, that when left too long unshorn in pasture cannot walk very well. They start to look like cotton balls with toothpicks stuck in them.

Pictures:
http://www.ausbcomp.com/redman/churro_project.htm

Not to mention how absolutely FILTHY wool gets. For simple hygiene you need to get it off the sheep (we shear before lambing around here, so the ewes aren't completely filthy when the lambs are being born, and so all the fluids from the birth don't cling to the wool and attract bugs).

 

[Chi Meson]

If you are "against" fur, are you also against leather?

Is wearing animal hair worse than wearing animal skin?

Humans would not be where we are if it weren't for smearing an animal's skin with its own brains. Sickening as it sounds, that's the way tanning has been done for thousands of years.

 

[Chi Meson]

The best action to take is to stop believing PETA's propaganda in any way represents reality. Now they're complaining about wool...yeesh...you get wool by giving the sheep the equivalent of a haircut, which they need to not get too hot in summer anyway, and send them merrily back out to pasture.

I used to get the newsletter from "Real Goods," a solar-living store on the west coast. The best part were the letters, which once contained a PETA-ish person claiming that they would not buy anything through the store or catalog as long as they sold anything made of or containing wool.

I couldn't help thinking: petroleum-based synthetics is "more-correct" than wool? As a Scot, I found that offensive.

Edit: Maybe they think that hemp sweaters will keep you warm enough.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I think it all depends on how it is done. Obviously stomping a racoons head is not appropriate. But if someone were to "humanely" put the racoon down and then use the meat for food, I'm ok with that. But I doubt they used the rest of the racoon.

 

[Kurdt]

Edit: Maybe they think that hemp sweaters will keep you warm enough.

They will if you smoke them.

I must admit I do wear loads of leather because I'm into motorbikes, but I think that as long as the killing is humane then we can use the product.

 

[lisab]

We used to have a couple goats and one sheep. When the sheep would get shorn I can guarantee you he LOVED it. Like a cat getting scratched! That wool must be itchy on them, too, I guess. Then he'd get up and prance around the barnyard like he was a lamb again. My hands would smell of lanolin for a day or two...yuck.

So I don't equate wool with fur...not even close. It's the cruelty that I can't support. And groups like PETA...I think they're well-intentioned but they go way, way too far. People don't respond to being preached at.

 

[ShawnD]

Getting a bit off track here. There's a big difference between being against fur and being a proud terrorist supporter of PETA.

Shouldn't the links be put back in the OP? It's hard to discuss something when half the people haven't even seen what the debate is about.

 

[Moonbear]

I couldn't help thinking: petroleum-based synthetics is "more-correct" than wool? As a Scot, I found that offensive.

Indeed, I don't think they think beyond Step 1: grow a sheep. Wool is very eco-friendly, since you can process it into a usable product without any chemical processing (unless you count a soap-and-water wash as chemical processing; granted many choose to dye wool, but they dye other fibers too, and you don't NEED to dye it for it to be wearable). Much better than something like cotton or synthetic fibers in terms of what gets dumped into the environment from processing (what comes off into the wash water is either dirt/fecal material that can be put right back into the soil, or lanolin that's a wonderful moisturizing lotion). A lot of people also don't know that wool is also naturally flame-retardant, so you don't need to treat it with another chemical to give it that property.

If you have sheep, you don't need a lawnmower, so yet another eco-friendly plus. Compost what comes out the other end and you can have nice fertilizer for your garden.

 

[_Mayday_]

I never wear fur. It's so passe. To me, women in fur coats look like hookers.

Can hookers afford real fur? I just thought it was Rapper Pimps hoes who managed to get the fur and still live a hooker like lifestyle.

 

[Evo]

Shouldn't the links be put back in the OP? It's hard to discuss something when half the people haven't even seen what the debate is about.

It's easy enough for people to google for the videos, that way, no one accidently clicks on them.

 

[Evo]

What on Earth would be a reason to oppose wool?

 

[Kurdt]

What on Earth would be a reason to oppose wool?

Its itchy.

 

[Moonbear]

Getting a bit off track here. There's a big difference between being against fur and being a proud terrorist supporter of PETA.

Shouldn't the links be put back in the OP? It's hard to discuss something when half the people haven't even seen what the debate is about.

They were all PETA propaganda links, hence why we're talking about PETA. One of them was anti-wool, which is why we're talking about sheep, while another was anti-fur, and a third one I didn't watch because it was a youtube clip that required signing into view, but that's the one folks were reporting was too disturbing to leave up.

It's also worth noting that none of this means there aren't people who are cruel to animals, just don't assume it's an industry standard. For example, that recent beef recall was due to a legitimate case of animal cruelty/animal welfare violations at a slaughterhouse, and indeed, caught far too slowly by inspectors. That doesn't mean all slaughterhouses treat their animals that way, or that it's an industry standard...indeed, it's a violation of industry regulations. You will find real cases of pet owners who neglect and abuse their pets; that doesn't mean that all pet owners are cruel and inhumane to their pets.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Indeed, I don't think they think beyond Step 1: grow a sheep. Wool is very eco-friendly, since you can process it into a usable product without any chemical processing (unless you count a soap-and-water wash as chemical processing; granted many choose to dye wool, but they dye other fibers too, and you don't NEED to dye it for it to be wearable). Much better than something like cotton or synthetic fibers in terms of what gets dumped into the environment from processing (what comes off into the wash water is either dirt/fecal material that can be put right back into the soil, or lanolin that's a wonderful moisturizing lotion). A lot of people also don't know that wool is also naturally flame-retardant, so you don't need to treat it with another chemical to give it that property.

If you have sheep, you don't need a lawnmower, so yet another eco-friendly plus. Compost what comes out the other end and you can have nice fertilizer for your garden.

But it needs to be woven. Who was it that said "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to weave?" Better go naked.

 

[_Mayday_]

I'm sure there are humane (sp.?) of getting fur.

 

[bomba923]

Seriously, what's wrong with fur?

>Is a lion ripping apart the innards of a gazelle not considered "cruelty" ?
>Or sharks tearing some herring in half not considered "cruelty" ? (so much for the "fish are friends not food" slogan)
>Why not show videos of those acts, and possibly run the "stop all carnivores" campaign?

*Edit: Alright, the "ethics" or "morality" of these acts (when humans are the carnivores in consideration?)
may well vary depending on the possible individual ethical contexts. Personally, I am rather Darwinian...

 

[turbo]

The PETA people don't get it. We humans are omnivores, and we evolved to eat a mix of vegetables, meats, etc. The food necessary for survival was obtained by hunting and gathering. Until the advent of agriculture, it may have been impossible for humans to get adequate protein from a plant-only diet.

I hunt deer, and I do it humanely, with a single-shot rifle and I will not take a shot unless it's a sure kill. The PETA people would probably call me a monster, but I feel a whole lot better eating meat from an animal that has spent its whole life in the wild, instead of eating beef from an animal that may never have been properly pastured with fresh green grass and water.

My wife and I buy Black Angus beef from a local farm that supplies plentiful pasture-space to their herd, with streams running through them, and farm-ponds to hold water in dry times. The cattle not only have fresh grass and water - they also get grain supplements and their pastures have plenty of trees so that they can find shade on hot days. This is a small family farm, and they are very conscientious and proud of the way they treat their animals. The quality of their free-range chickens beats anything you can get in a store. They had other projects going last summer (including expanding their huge strawberry fields) so they didn't raise chickens last summer. (Very sad!)

 

[russ_watters]

I never wear fur. It's so passe. To me, women in fur coats look like hookers.

Agreed. I much prefer leather (for men and women).

 

[turbo]

Agreed. I much prefer leather (for men and women).

Well, rides on the Softail generally involve sturdy leather boots and tough leather jacket for myself and my wife. Never been down since I gave up the hot 2-strokes, but if it ever happens, I want leather between me and the asphalt.

 

[Moonbear]

For me, warmth trumps appearance for coats anyway. Turn the fur coat inside-out, and maybe I'll be happier with the result. I agree with MIH too that fur coats just look tacky, and ironically, cheap. But that's just aesthetics for me.