Lagrangian equation from this free body diagram

In summary, the small wheel orbiting the big wheel does not seem to be working as intended. The two wheels are stuck together and the kinetic energy for the big wheel is easy to find.
  • #1
Hyperian
15
0

Homework Statement


Here's the free body diagram with variables.
txbPQ.png

I am looking for the lagrangian mechanics equation.
[itex]M[/itex] is mass of the bottom wheel.
[itex]m[/itex] is the mass of the top wheel.
[itex]R[/itex] is the radius of the bottom wheel.
[itex]r[/itex] is the radius of the top wheel.
[itex]θ_{1}[/itex] is the angle from vertical of the bottom wheel.
[itex]θ_{2}[/itex] is the angle from vertical of the top wheel.
[itex]\dot{θ}_{1}[/itex] is the angular velocity of the bottom wheel.
[itex]\dot{θ}_{2}[/itex] is the angular velocity of the top wheel.
[itex]x[/itex] is the linear distance.
[itex]\dot{θ}[/itex] is linear velocity of the whole contraption.

Homework Equations


Here are some relationships of these variables according to the free body diagram.
[itex]l_{cm}=\frac{m(R+r)}{M+m}[/itex] is the distance to center of mass from center of the bottom wheel.
[itex]\dot{θ}_{1}R=-\dot{θ}_{2}r[/itex] is just the relationship of the two wheel's angular velocity.
[itex]I=\frac{2}{5}MR^{2}[/itex] is the moment of inertia of the bottom wheel.
[itex]I=\frac{1}{4}MR^{2}[/itex] is the moment of inertia of the top wheel.
[itex]\dot{θ}_{1}R=\dot{x}[/itex] just means that there is no slipping.

I am looking for mechanical Lagrangian equation of [itex]L=T-V[/itex].
While i know [itex]V=mgl_{cm}cosθ_{1}[/itex], I am not sure what T would look like, I know it would have to do with at least 2 terms, transitional kinetic energy and rotational energy terms, but I am not sure how the interaction of the two wheels would play out.

The Attempt at a Solution


[itex]L=T-mgl_{cm}cosθ_{1}[/itex]
 
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  • #2
Can the wheel on the bottom slide? Assuming that the small one sticks to the big one (is this OK?), then just write the x, y position of the big one as a function of theta sub one and distance from origin, and write down the position of the small one relative to the big one. Then just add them to get the position w.r.t to the ground, and use this to write the lagrangian.
 
  • #3
AuraCrystal said:
Can the wheel on the bottom slide? Assuming that the small one sticks to the big one (is this OK?), then just write the x, y position of the big one as a function of theta sub one and distance from origin, and write down the position of the small one relative to the big one. Then just add them to get the position w.r.t to the ground, and use this to write the lagrangian.

the wheel on the bottom does not slide. the small one is actually a motor that turns the big one. so they are stuck together.

I don't get what you mean "and write down the position of the small one relative to the big one. Then just add them to get the position w.r.t to the ground, and use this to write the lagrangian."
 
  • #4
Ooh ok, then that makes the math simpler. :-) Forget about what I said.

Set the origin to be the center of the wheel. Using basic trig, find the x,y coordinates of the small wheel in terms of theta 1 and theta 2. (The small one can slide, right?) Then plug it into
[itex]T_{small}=\frac{1}{2}I \dot{\theta_{1}}+\frac{1}{2}mv^{2}=\frac{1}{2}I \dot{\theta_{1}}+\frac{1}{2}m \left ( \dot{x^{2}} + \dot{y^{2}} \right ) [/itex]
The kinetic energy for the big wheel is easy. Plug those expressions for x and y for the small wheel into [itex]V=mgy[/itex], then get the Lagrangian.
 
  • #5
AuraCrystal said:
Ooh ok, then that makes the math simpler. :-) Forget about what I said.

Set the origin to be the center of the wheel. Using basic trig, find the x,y coordinates of the small wheel in terms of theta 1 and theta 2. (The small one can slide, right?) Then plug it into
[itex]T_{small}=\frac{1}{2}I \dot{\theta_{1}}+\frac{1}{2}mv^{2}=\frac{1}{2}I \dot{\theta_{1}}+\frac{1}{2}m \left ( \dot{x^{2}} + \dot{y^{2}} \right ) [/itex]
The kinetic energy for the big wheel is easy. Plug those expressions for x and y for the small wheel into [itex]V=mgy[/itex], then get the Lagrangian.

the small one would kinda be orbiting around the big one, but ideally it should stay pretty much on top of it. this is kind of like a inverted pendulum problem.
so for the small wheel, the transitional motion would be
[itex]\frac{1}{2}m((R+r)\dot{θ}cosθ)^2[/itex].

you are missing the square on the [itex]\dot{θ}[/itex] on the rotational term right?
 
  • #6
^Oops! Yeah, I forgot that...
 

What is a Lagrangian equation?

A Lagrangian equation is a mathematical equation used to describe the motion of a particle or system in terms of its position and velocity. It is derived from the principle of least action, which states that a particle will follow a path that minimizes the action, or the integral of the difference between the kinetic and potential energy.

How is a Lagrangian equation derived from a free body diagram?

A free body diagram is a representation of all the forces acting on a particle or system. By applying Newton's laws of motion to this diagram, we can derive the equations of motion for the particle. These equations can then be transformed into the Lagrangian form using the principle of least action.

What information can be obtained from a Lagrangian equation?

A Lagrangian equation contains all the information needed to describe the motion of a particle or system. It can be used to determine the position, velocity, and acceleration of the particle at any given time. It can also be used to calculate the energy and momentum of the particle.

Can a Lagrangian equation be used for all types of systems?

Yes, a Lagrangian equation can be used for any system that can be described by a set of generalized coordinates and velocities. This includes both simple and complex systems, such as particles, rigid bodies, and fluids.

How is a Lagrangian equation different from a Newtonian equation?

A Newtonian equation is derived from Newton's laws of motion and describes the motion of a particle in terms of its position and acceleration. A Lagrangian equation, on the other hand, is derived from the principle of least action and describes the motion of a particle in terms of its position and velocity. It can often be more useful for complex systems, as it takes into account all forces acting on the particle, not just those that cause acceleration.

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