Every religion that ever came out of the middle east has been a cancer on society.

[eNtRopY]

I truly believe this. Judaism, Christianity (in its many forms) and the Islamic religion have brought more pain and suffering than benefit to humanity.

These religions all share a common design. They are all structured so as to control the masses by the fear punishment and the promise of reward. Seriously, let's look at their common elements.

- They all use the tactic of monotheism. They all say that there is only one God, and it is a sin to even think about questioning the ways of God.

- They all employ the use of sin. They control the behavior of the people by asserting that certain actions are inherently bad, and if one commits such actions the omnicient God will know about it.

- They all say that their dogma is the solemn word of God, and it is to be followed without question.

- They all use the concept of eternal damnation for the infidels.

- They all justify transgression against the infidels.

- They all employ the tactic of sexual sin. This tactic is used so as to ensure that every act of sex leads to a pregnancy in a controlled environment (aka a marriage). This is inadvertenty done so as to strengthen the numbers of those practicing the religion. Seriously, most of the long-running successful religions have employed this tactic. It is a mechanism of self-sustainment.

As you can clearly see, nothing in this design will help one find absolute truth. Like I said before, it's all about controlling the masses.

Sometimes, I think that we (of the western society) would have been much better off had the Romans never invaded the northern parts of Europe and brought with them their civilized religion of Christianity. It might be true that paganism would have kept civilization under a more tribal way of life, but who is to say that this is indeed true?

Sometimes, I wonder if it would be more tradtional for us of European descent, to respect the pantheistic gods of our distant ancestors on holidays rather than the younger, middle eastern God that we still honor today.

eNtRopY

 

[kat]

Originally posted by eNtRopY
I truly believe this. Judaism, Christianity (in its many forms) and the Islamic religion have brought more pain and suffering than benefit to humanity.


- They all use the concept of eternal damnation for the infidels.

I wasn't aware that Judaism used the concept of eternal damnation..are you sure about this?

 

[Zero]

I always blamed it on heat and limited water...drives people nutty!

 

[quartodeciman]

Originally posted by kat
I wasn't aware that Judaism used the concept of eternal damnation..are you sure about this?

Mostly NOT. At most a term in Sheol. But there are exceptions: the highly "fundamentalist" school of Rabbi Shammai was reputed to hold with eternal rewards and punishments. Also, apocalyptic judaism believed a final judgement and disposition. Both of these flourished in the 1st century CE, the same time as Jesus Christ and his apostles.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the Earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

(KJV)

 

[Gale]

As you can clearly see, nothing in this design will help one find absolute truth. Like I said before, it's all about controlling the masses.

i agree, although i see judaism as a little bit of an exception. but islam and christianity preach ideas so similar and are usually backed by some hidden political agenda. i think politics corrupted these religions. politics and the importance of being "civilized."

 

[eNtRopY]

It is my understanding that, like Allah, Jehovah of the Old Testament is a very wrathful and jealous deity. I believe that hell is mentioned several times throughout the Old Testament.

If you are a Christian and you take the Bible literally, you will quickly come to the conclusion that before the time of Jesus, the only people who were saved from eternal damnation were God's chosen ones--the Jews.

Now I realize that modern Judaism has been greatly modified since the early days; however, originally Judaism was used to build strength amongst its people. Messages like we God's chosen ones... all others are inherently evil... we are the descendents of Able the good... all others are descendents of Cain the bad are just devices to coerce the individuals of the masses to follow the group.

Now admittedly, We can't deny that people like following a group either. Look at the level of enthusiasm which ensues the gathering of hundreds of fans with a common interest during a concert or sporting event. This type of behavior can only be attributed to the fact that people naturally want to be part of something bigger and stronger than themselves. However, if there is one thing that religion loves to do, it is exploit human nature.

eNtRopY

 

[FZ+]

Erm... why restrict yourself to these religions? Might the fact they had lots of atrocities etc be related to the fact they have dominated the world, and hence is all the more visible.

Religious equality while criticising religions please!

 

[kat]

Originally posted by FZ+
Erm... why restrict yourself to these religions? Might the fact they had lots of atrocities etc be related to the fact they have dominated the world, and hence is all the more visible.

Religious equality while criticising religions please!

yes, let's not forget the others..you know..like communism, socialsim..etc. etc.

 

[LURCH]

Originally posted by kat
yes, let's not forget the others..you know..like communism, socialsim..etc. etc.

I think those would both fall under atheism.

 

[TENYEARS]

The foundation of all religions are the same, american indian, christian, buddist, hindu, islam, voodo, etc... One central experience/god that is all things. No founder of any relgion would ever disagree to any degree because their experience is pure and common altough the cultures may very the core of the experience would be the same to them all.

The things which are looked upon as bad which are commited in the name of relgion have nothing to do with religion. It has to do with power and material things not the experiences which initiated the so called religions.

What of science? Let's put thousands of service men in the desert and blow up an atomic bomb 1 1/2 mile away and give them sun glasses and see the effect. Let's do it again and again maybe in the ocean on destroyers and aircraft carriers. Let's cut the heads off of monkeys and reatach them and see how long they live. Let us do it a couple of dozen times. Let us create nuclear power plants and dump the waste all over the planet. What ever uncouncious acts in the name of religion, I can counter with the misuse of science 10 fold and that would be on a bad day. Some nuclear waste was even found in wells and not in trace amounts large chunks which proceed to wipe out whole families. Nice. What of all the ships at the bottom of oceans nuclear and other wise, the oil, the toxic chemicals. All created in the name of science. The unconscious spewing of humanity in a continious stream.

As to sex and religion, that may have been part of the context and then maybe not. There was rampant sexually transmitted disease, over population and starvation in some areas. This was a method of controlling that from a socialistic perspective. In the old testament there was a thing about eating bottom fish crustations I think. This was because that type of fish spoils more readily than regular fish and with worse effects. Ever get sick on clams or shell fish? Sometimes things relative to a culture were incorporated as beliefs and a way to live by but had nothing to do with a realization of an absolute reality. The new testament made reference to clean and unclean food of the previous jewish era. I believe and in this case I do say I believe it was also culturally created by the environment but as time went on there were ways to cope with the food and new methods of storage which made the resasons for doing obsolete, but they were many times placed in the religion and most likey because back then there were not a lot of books and the religious book was about a whole way of life.

Hello, wake up at the count of three you will be rested and your mind will no longer exist in the haze of your thoughts and frustrations. Your mind will be clear and placid. You will see a blue sky clouds and feel the wind on your skin and the sun on your face. You will expereince these things instead of living in what you believe to be yourself. 1 2 3. You are refreshed, awake and feel good. You will be responsible for what you say and do and experience life for what it is. Tao Taaao daylight come daylight go...

 

[Laser Eyes]

Originally posted by Gale17
i agree, although i see judaism as a little bit of an exception. but islam and christianity preach ideas so similar and are usually backed by some hidden political agenda. i think politics corrupted these religions. politics and the importance of being "civilized."

It's interesting that you say Christianity has been corrupted by politics and the importance of being "civilised". So when people criticize Christianity, (like in this thread), is the religion they are criticising real Christianity according to Bible teachings, or is it a corrupted version? If it's a corrupted version, as you say, then they aren't really criticising Christianity, they're just observing that the mainstream so called Christian religions have fallen away from the true Bible teachings and are not really Christian at all.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kat
yes, let's not forget the others..you know..like communism, socialsim..etc. etc.

Confused about what counts as religion, along with LURCH, huh? I can lend you a dictionary, but someone else will have to read it to you...

Seriously though, Kat, I expect better from you.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
Confused about what counts as religion, along with LURCH, huh? I can lend you a dictionary, but someone else will have to read it to you...

Seriously though, Kat, I expect better from you.

Lol, please don't ground me, mom!

I'm not confused at all, Idealogies such as communism
certainly can be religions.

re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)
n.

4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

From www.dictionary.com

I'd also like to point out that Idealogies without God have led to, at the very least equal, and I believe in actuality far greater destruction and some of the most horrid and wide spread killing of the past century. (Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao etc.)

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kat
Lol, please don't ground me, mom!

I'm not confused at all, Idealogies such as communism
certainly can be religions.

re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)
n.

4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

From www.dictionary.com

I'd also like to point out that Idealogies without God have led to, at the very least equal, and I believe in actuality far greater destruction and some of the most horrid and wide spread killing of the past century. (Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao etc.)

Well, let's not play that 'your atrocities are worse than mine' game. Your examples, in my mind, simply don't count, because being 'without God' isn't the reason for those atrocities, in the same way that Nazi Germany's Christian ideology was only a small facet of a larger political movement.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
Well, let's not play that 'your atrocities are worse than mine' game.

Oh, please! Stop speaking to me as if I were a 7 year old school girl.

IF both God and Godless idealogies have a common destructive denominator it would be good to recognize that and IF in fact a Godless idealogy has a greater propensinity for destruction then a Godful one it would be good to recognize what it is within that Ideology that holds that destructive fervor in check. If it is the opposite way around the same interest should hold either way. If there is no difference then..it obviously has nothing to do with God but with Ideologies in general.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kat
Oh, please! Stop speaking to me as if I were a 7 year old school girl.

IF both God and Godless idealogies have a common destructive denominator it would be good to recognize that and IF in fact a Godless idealogy has a greater propensinity for destruction then a Godful one it would be good to recognize what it is within that Ideology that holds that destructive fervor in check. If it is the opposite way around the same interest should hold either way. If there is no difference then..it obviously has nothing to do with God but with Ideologies in general.

Read my edit.

BTW, I was sure you were at least 12...

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
Your examples, in my mind, simply don't count, because being 'without God' isn't the reason for those atrocities, in the same way that Nazi Germany's Christian ideology was only a small facet of a larger political movement.

I'm not sure that Nazi Germany is the best example to use as many facets of how and to what measure Christianity was involved, particularly in the leadership is still debated in both Atheist and Christian circles. You'll note I left it out of my short list.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kat
I'm not sure that Nazi Germany is the best example to use as many facets of how and to what measure Christianity was involved, particularly in the leadership is still debated in both Atheist and Christian circles. You'll note I left it out of my short list.

My point is your point, I think. You can't necessarily blame Christianity for Nazism, and I don't think you can blame Atheism for Communist dictatorships, because Atheism wasn't the point of Communism. I feel that the only groups that fit into this specific discussion would be groups whose main reason for existence is or was religion.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
Read my edit.

BTW, I was sure you were at least 12...

I think should leave the personal attacks out of your posts.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kat
I think should leave the personal attacks out of your posts.

I think you should lighten up a bit... Would I have said I expected better of you if I didn't generally respect the intelligence behind your posting(even when I think you are completely wrong)?

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
My point is your point, I think. You can't necessarily blame Christianity for Nazism, and I don't think you can blame Atheism for Communist dictatorships, because Atheism wasn't the point of Communism. I feel that the only groups that fit into this specific discussion would be groups whose main reason for existence is or was religion.

Well, my point is that there is something greater going on then a belief in god, or a lack of belief in god..there is a common denominator in all idealogies. Nor is it about blame..for me. The masses, IMO, are the victims whether they are the destroyed or the destroyers. What are the common denominators in a Godless leadership with an ideology and a Godful leadership with an idealogy that stirs the masses into hatefilled slaughter and destruction?

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
I think you should lighten up a bit... Would I have said I expected better of you if I didn't generally respect the intelligence behind your posting(even when I think you are completely wrong)?

I'ts condescending and suggests that you know greater then I do prior to even entering into dialogue with me to discover why I have made the statements I have.

*shrug* I won't hold it against you.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kat
Well, my point is that there is something greater going on then a belief in god, or a lack of belief in god..there is a common denominator in all idealogies. Nor is it about blame..for me. The masses, IMO, are the victims whether they are the destroyed or the destroyers. What are the common denominators in a Godless leadership with an ideology and a Godful leadership with an idealogy that stirs the masses into hatefilled slaughter and destruction?

Well, me being me, I would say that the 'godless' dictatorships learned from religion how to control the masses, and create mass atrocities and war. I feel that it is something intrinsic to monotheistic religions.

 

[quartodeciman]

I think it is erroneous to treat religion as if it comes from outside. Rather than religion coming to "exploit human nature", it arises out of human nature. Our animal brains, reinforced with a complex (and often contradictive) cerebrum, lead to whole new dimensions of fear, loyalty, high purpose, etc. Politics (acquisition and maintenance of gross power) and Culture (sense of identity, ritual and collective destiny) mix richly with proto-religious ideas. Sometimes even Science (independent and scrupulous acquisition of reality) gets mixed into the pot.

Richard Dawkins, the evolutionary biologist author, once came up with the concept of the même, idea units that spread interpersonally, just as viruses spread between organisms and commandeer their resources to reproduce themselves. Some thinkers are taking the même concept seriously.

Michael Shermer, who writes for the Skeptic and Scientific American magazines, discussed a hypothetical belief switch in his book "How We Believe", indicating a possible selective advantage for early hominids living in dangerous environments. This switch might in fact be a bank of switches, sez I.

But, back to the top. I say it all arises out of human nature.

 

[megashawn]

Well, even godless nazi were basically a religion. They believed in a superior race on earth, and planned on eliminating all that were different.

So while they may be defined as atheists, they did infact hold a false belief that they themselves were the superior beings.

No different really then believing you have the ultimate, complete word of God, and go on crusades.

Tenyears, what does American Indian religion have in common with christianity? I know of a few different indain beliefs, and none of them center around a single god. Perhaps you could explain this a little more?

And to your rant about all the evils science has done, hah. How about all the good? If you truly look at it, you will see that in the short time science has been mainstream, it has improved life of countrys practicing it 10 fold, if not more so. Life spans are longer, we've developed methods to store and cook our food, automobile, harnessed electricity, gone to the moon, fly half way around the world in a few hours, and do a 360 on a motorcycle (that was awesome, must watch X-Games).

My point here is, that the good outweighs the bad. And sure, we've spilled oil, nuke waste, ink die, chemicals, etc. We've just recently become aware of the impact we are having on the enviroment, and guess what, something will get done about it.

How many people have died from nuclear related incidents (bomds, leaks, radiation, etc)?

How many people have died being forced to convert to christianity?

How many people have died because of ignorance due to stifled learning practices as a result of religions like christianity?

How long ago would Earth have become modernized if it weren't for silly beliefs in unprovable mythologys that have stood in the way of our progress?

Hey, we don't even need to bring islam in this equation. They seem to be victims more then anything, looking at the big picture.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by kat
IF both God and Godless idealogies have a common destructive denominator it would be good to recognize that and IF in fact a Godless idealogy has a greater propensinity for destruction then a Godful one it would be good to recognize what it is within that Ideology that holds that destructive fervor in check. If it is the opposite way around the same interest should hold either way. If there is no difference then..it obviously has nothing to do with God but with Ideologies in general.

This sounds to me more like the pathway of required knowledge, leading to good judgment, in this threads initial question.

Are there studies available?

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons

Are there studies available?

I haven't found anything comprehensive, only subjective analysis from close minded perspectives condemning the 'other' side...

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by kat
I haven't found anything comprehensive, only subjective analysis from close minded perspectives condemning the 'other' side...

Why is it that that does not surprise me?

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

To the statement that originates this thread, the idea that religions have been 'cancers upon society', the simple question, "What better way to separate the wheat from the chaff" then what is asserted in the beginnings of this thread?

(The purpose of religion, or, religion's purpose!)

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kat
I haven't found anything comprehensive, only subjective analysis from close minded perspectives condemning the 'other' side...

Kat, no offense, but claiming the other side is 'close minded' is usually(not always) a sign that your own view has no legs to stand on.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
Kat, no offense, but claiming the other side is 'close minded' is usually(not always) a sign that your own view has no legs to stand on.

erm, perhaps I didn't make myself clear...I've only found analysis from both/either/all sides damning the other side. I've yet to find a comprehensive study looking at the whoooole picture objecively.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kat
erm, perhaps I didn't make myself clear...I've only found analysis from both/either/all sides damning the other side. I've yet to find a comprehensive study looking at the whoooole picture objecively.

Well, what say we start analyzing the problem right now, ok? Let us look at non-religious massacres throughout history, and see how much or little they resemble religious slaughters.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
Well, what say we start analyzing the problem right now, ok? Let us look at non-religious massacres throughout history, and see how much or little they resemble religious slaughters.

Sounds like a plan I'll be back later today, when I have more time to contribute.

 

[ray b]

the big three all are about the same in evil laws and the willingness to inflict the laws on others

I think the tali-ban and fundie christians share more weird ideas with the orthodox jews then they differ. and I would hate to live in any state under compleat control of any of them.

all have laws againts sex and drugs and rock&roll !

 

[FZ+]

Though this problem would be solved by my (new) definition of religion, which has nothing to do with God.

Religion: Any belief system that claims ownership of Absolute Truth.

Nazism, Nationalism, Communism et al are covered, I believe.