Ordinal Property of Subsets in Well-Ordered Sets

In summary, the conversation discusses the definitions of a well-ordered set, a transitive set, and an ordinal set. The claim is made that if a set is an ordinal and one of its elements is also an ordinal, then that element is a subset of the original set. The book claims this is clear "by definition" but the speaker only sees half of the proof. After further discussion and clarification, it is determined that the claim can be proven by considering the fact that the subset of a well-ordered set is also well-ordered, and that the ordinal set is defined in such a way that the claim follows "by definition."
  • #1
jostpuur
2,116
19
A set [itex]x[/itex] is well-ordered by [itex]<[/itex] if every subset of [itex]x[/itex] has a least element. Here [itex]<[/itex] is assumed a linear ordering, meaning that all members of a set can be compared, unlike with partial ordering.

A set [itex]x[/itex] is transitive if it has property [itex]\forall y\;(y\in x\to y\subset x)[/itex].

A set [itex]\alpha[/itex] is ordinal, if it is transitive and well-ordered by [itex]\in[/itex].

The claim: If [itex]\alpha[/itex] is an ordinal, and [itex]\beta\in\alpha[/itex], then [itex]\beta[/itex] is ordinal too.

A book says that this claim is clear "by definition", however I see only half of the proof by definition.

We have [itex]\beta\in\alpha\to\beta\subset\alpha[/itex], and a subset of a well-ordered set is also well-ordered, so that part is clear by definition.

We should also prove a claim [itex]\forall\gamma\;(\gamma\in\beta\to\gamma\subset\beta)[/itex]. How is this supposed to come from the definition? I only see [itex]\gamma\in\beta\to\gamma\in\alpha\to\gamma\subset\alpha[/itex].

---

update: Oh I understood this now! No need for help. :cool: But I would like to complain that the book is playing fool on the reader. I wouldn't call that "by definition".

---

second update: We assume [itex]\gamma\in\beta[/itex] and then

[tex]
\neg(\gamma\subset\beta)\to \exists\delta\;(\delta\in\gamma\land\delta\notin\beta)
[/tex]
[tex]
\to\exists\delta\;\big(\delta\in\gamma\land(\beta\in\delta\lor \beta=\delta)\big)
[/tex]
[tex]
\to\exists\delta\big(\underbrace{(\delta\in\gamma\land\beta\in\delta)}_{\to 0=1}\lor\underbrace{(\delta\in\gamma\land \beta=\delta)}_{\to 0=1}\big)\to 0=1
[/tex]

Does that look like "by definition"? :devil:
 
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  • #2
I think they call it by definition for this reason. Since ##\beta\subset\alpha##, ##\beta## is well ordered by ##\in##, as you pointed out. So for ##\beta' < \beta## in ##\alpha##, ##\beta'\in\beta##, and for ##\beta' > \beta##, ##\beta\in\beta'## which precludes ##\beta## containing any of these larger elements. But ##\beta\subset\alpha##, therefore ##\beta## is exactly the union of elements of ##\alpha## less than ##\beta##. But then ##\forall\gamma\in\beta \; (\gamma\subset\beta)## and ##\beta## is transitive.

So in a sense, ##\beta## is defined in this way by those definitions.
 
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What is the definition of "Ordinal by definition"?

Ordinal by definition refers to a type of categorical data, where the categories have a natural order or hierarchy.

How is ordinal data different from nominal data?

Ordinal data differs from nominal data in that it has a natural order or hierarchy, while nominal data does not. For example, a survey question asking about education level (high school, college, graduate school) is ordinal because the categories have a clear hierarchy. A question asking about favorite color (red, blue, green) is nominal because the categories do not have a natural order.

What are some examples of ordinal data?

Some examples of ordinal data include rankings (1st, 2nd, 3rd), ratings (1 star, 2 stars, 3 stars), and Likert scale responses (strongly disagree, disagree, neutral, agree, strongly agree).

Can ordinal data be converted to numerical data?

Yes, ordinal data can be converted to numerical data by assigning a numerical value to each category based on its position in the hierarchy. However, it is important to note that the numerical values do not have a consistent interval between them, so mathematical operations should not be performed on the data.

How is ordinal data analyzed?

Ordinal data is typically analyzed using non-parametric statistical methods, such as the Mann-Whitney U test or Spearman's rank correlation coefficient. These tests do not assume a normal distribution of the data, making them suitable for analyzing categorical data like ordinal data.

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