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ideasrule
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Do we have confirmation that the shotgun was fired 3 times?
You need to read the story carefully and keep strict track of what everyone said:drankin said:She also accidently kept it pointed at her brother. To control a semi-auto shotgun and maintain a target is hard enough.
She said she got the gun and loaded shells into it, but was unable to get them out. Anderson said that while she was attempting to unload the weapon on her bed, it went off. She then took it downstairs to ask for help in unloading it. She asked her brother, she said, and he told her to point the gun up instead of carrying it beside her leg. Her brother was walking across the kitchen between her and her mother, she said. She started to raise the gun, and "someone said something to her," she recalled in the report. She turned and the gun went off.
But current Braintree police Chief Paul Frazier questions how the investigation was handled. Frazier said Amy Bishop also fired once into a wall before hitting her brother, then fired a third time into the ceiling.
An auto mechanic who worked at a dealership near Bishop's home in 1986 told The Boston Globe that Bishop ran in after shooting her brother, waved a gun and demanded a getaway car.
HUNTSVILLE, Ala. – A professor who survived a deadly university shooting rampage said the colleague charged in the attack methodically shot her victims in the head until the gun apparently jammed and she was pushed out of the room.
Ng said the meeting had been going on for about half an hour when Amy Bishop "got up suddenly, took out a gun and started shooting at each one of us. She started with the one closest to her and went down the row shooting her targets in the head."
Ng, the professor who survived, said all six of those shot were on one side of an oval table.
"The remaining 5 including myself were on the other side of the table (and) immediately dropped to the floor," he wrote.
Ng told the AP the shooting stopped almost as soon as it started. He said the gun seemed to jam and he and others rushed Bishop out of the room and then barricaded the door shut with a table.
Ng said the charge was led by Debra Moriarity, a professor of biochemistry, after Bishop aimed the gun at her and attempted to fire. When the gun didn't shoot, Moriarity pushed her way to Bishop, urged her to stop, and then helped force her out the door.
"Moriarity was probably the one that saved our lives. She was the one that initiated the rush," he told the AP. "It took a lot of guts to just go up to her."
zoobyshoe said:The percentage of 19 year old girls who accidentally shot relatives will be so tiny that the statement "It's not at all unusual for a 19 year old girl to accidentally shoot a relative" will be seen to be bogus.
Brian_C said:19 year old girls will act erratically after accidentally shooting a relative. This stuff might sound suspicious to CSI wannabees, but it's nothing out of the ordinary in the real world of law enforcement.
Ivan Seeking said:When her gun jammed they forced her out the door? I probably would have killed her with my bare hands.
The gun was in her handedpell said:It is not clear where the gun was at the point that they pushed her out of the room. I for myself would not want to wrestle with a person with a gun. I would be happy to push them out the door and barricade the door.
Ng said the charge was led by Debra Moriarity, a professor of biochemistry, after Bishop aimed the gun at her and attempted to fire. When the gun didn't shoot, Moriarity pushed her way to Bishop, urged her to stop, and then helped force her out the door.
edpell said:It is not clear where the gun was at the point that they pushed her out of the room. I for myself would not want to wrestle with a person with a gun. I would be happy to push them out the door and barricade the door.
She shot 3 colleagues. She attempted to shoot a 4th, but the gun jammed/misfired. The 4th colleagues (and apparently others) wrestled her out the door.rootX said:So, they forced her out of the door along with her gun before the shooting occurred (and called 911)?
Ivan Seeking said:...so that she could possibly continue on her rampage? .
Actually she shot 6 people before the gun jammed, or ran out of bullets. Three dead, 2 in the hospital in critical condition and one has been released from the hospital.Astronuc said:She shot 3 colleagues. She attempted to shoot a 4th, but the gun jammed/misfired. The 4th colleagues (and apparently others) wrestled her out the door.
Ivan Seeking said:...so that she could possibly continue on her rampage? That aside, I don't know if I could control my emotions at that point. My life has been threatened a few times. Once I was held at gunpoint [actually, I was kidnapped at gunpoint]. When a person's life is threatened, the animal instincts often emerge.
edpell said:If I were the insurance company for the University I would be filing a lawsuit against the Braintree Mass. police department for criminal negligence. Seeking to have them pay the payouts due to the shootings.
edpell said:There are two animal instincts 1) fight 2) flight. If you are defending genetically related kin 1 might make sense. If you are defending people who are not genetically related to you well 2 makes more sense.
But if you wish to save me Ivan I will gladly accept the help.
cronxeh said:Are you aware that the police have NO constitutional or otherwise legal responsibility to actually protect individual lives?
edpell said:But they do have an obligation to investigate shootings that result in death. That is the brothers death.
I'm tempted to say there must be something in the water. Rare enough to encounter one murderous professor anywhere, but to have two associated with the same institution?Dr Transport said:As a graduate of UAH, this is just another incidence of the universities poor judgment in hiring faculty members, not 6 months ago the former Physics department chair was convicted of murdering his wife.
http://blog.al.com/live/2009/10/professor_uah_murder.html
These were the worst, but other poor decisions (my opinion) have been made in other cases regarding tenure etc...
Bishop's students said they first wrote a letter to biology department chairman Gopi K. Podila — one of the victims of Friday's shooting — then met with him and finally submitted a petition that dozens of them had signed.
"Podila just sort of blew us off," said Phillips, who was among a group of five students who met with him in fall 2008 or early 2009 to air their concerns.
In 2002, Bishop was charged with assault, battery and disorderly conduct after a tirade at the International House of Pancakes in Peabody, Mass. Peabody police Capt. Dennis Bonaiuto said Bishop became incensed when she found out another woman had received the restaurant's last booster seat. Bishop hit the woman while shouting, "I am Dr. Amy Bishop," according to the police report.
"The whole incident was just stupid," Bishop's husband, James Anderson, said Wednesday.
Asked if he was referring to his wife's actions, he said: "Everything."
"It was way overblown," he said. "Someone trying to make something out of nothing."
Astronuc said:She shot 3 colleagues. She attempted to shoot a 4th, but the gun jammed/misfired. The 4th colleagues (and apparently others) wrestled her out the door.
zoobyshoe said:Here's a new piece of information. Apparently dozens of her students had signed a petition of complaint about her strange teaching style and had presented it to the Bio department chairman, who blew it off. Unfortunately, he became one of her victims.
Yeah, cronxeh linked to that earlier. Out of 34 comments 20 were "good", 5 were "average", and 9 were "poor".physics girl phd said:http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=392617"... though that doesn't mean much. :rofl:
According to reports, she "taught" by reading out of the textbook. If I was paying for a college education and my professor did that, I'd be talking to the department head, and if that didn't work, head to the dean's office and work up from there.zoobyshoe said:According to the news story, though, "dozens" (which, if it's accurate, has to mean at least 24, right?) of her students didn't bother with this rating site and went directly to the head of the department with a petition against her. I suppose that petition still exists somewhere and the exact number of signatures could be checked. I have no idea how common it might be for students to start a petition like this. I'm not aware it ever happened in my college.
zoobyshoe said:I have no idea how common it might be for students to start a petition like this. I'm not aware it ever happened in my college.
zoobyshoe said:Yeah, cronxeh linked to that earlier. Out of 34 comments 20 were "good", 5 were "average", and 9 were "poor".
According to the news story, though, "dozens" (which, if it's accurate, has to mean at least 24, right?) of her students didn't bother with this rating site and went directly to the head of the department with a petition against her. I suppose that petition still exists somewhere and the exact number of signatures could be checked. I have no idea how common it might be for students to start a petition like this. I'm not aware it ever happened in my college.
I am sure there are shrinks at work as we speak who've talked to her and are trying either to arrive at a diagnosis or rule out any mental illness. It would be interesting to know what they've found out that we don't know yet.Frame Dragger said:She sounds like a very atypical woman from a psychological standpoint. Such violent crimes from an early age, coupled with intelligence... typically a male pattern. Some of the impulse-control issues have to make one wonder if these are sociopathic traits/neurological structures at play? I can't stress how unusual it is for a woman to have a history of murder-by-firearm in the first degree like this.
Actually, I heard of worse things: professors who ramble on about their lives all through class, then announce quizzes on stuff from the book that they haven't even discussed in class. I know students who've gone to, and emailed, the teacher directly complaining about apparently unfair practices, like, "You specifically said the test would be about this, but instead it was about that." I've never heard of an organized petition, is all I'm saying.turbo-1 said:According to reports, she "taught" by reading out of the textbook. If I was paying for a college education and my professor did that, I'd be talking to the department head, and if that didn't work, head to the dean's office and work up from there.
That's what I'm thinking: this is probably extremely unusual, but, of course, I haven't seen a poll or any statistics, if such exists.elect_eng said:I agree with what you are implying. In my experience, students often complain verbally (and I guess in writing on the internet nowadays) at the slightest provocation. Often the best professors get negative comments from mediocre students. Very little can be made from this kind of thing.
However, students orgainizing a petition is very rare and an extreme measure to take. A student really sticks their neck out if they do that, and I doubt they would be motivated to do it without a real conviction that an important principle is at stake. There is always an oddball to lodge a complaint with a Dean, but a group of students? ... That's a big deal.
It seems that this is exactly how it was handled. Although he apparently dismissed the students, she was actually privately spoken to about the petition. If you read the whole link the student interviewed said she began dropping phrases and terms they'd used in the petition in class:Moonbear said:On the other hand, there may have been merit to the complaint, but the department chair didn't make a big deal of it in front of the students and rather took it into consideration and addressed it privately. This is the appropriate way to handle such a situation...you don't undermine faculty in front of students, but then talk to the faculty without the students present to address concerns...
"Podila just sort of blew us off," said Phillips, who was among a group of five students who met with him in fall 2008 or early 2009 to air their concerns.
After students met privately with Podila, Phillips said, Bishop seemingly made a point in class to use some of the same phrases they had so they would know she knew about it.
"It was like she was parroting what we had said," Phillips said.
Don't forget the 2002 charges for assault at the International House of Pancakes over a booster seat.edpell said:In the shooting death of brother did the police interview any of brothers friends? Did they look at the bullet placement in the walls? Did they question Dad? Did they find and question the motorist that was threatened with the gun? Did they ask for a polygraph on Amy? Did they determine how far the gun was from brother when fired? Did they talk with any of Amy's friends?
I have to assume the Braintree town lawyer has told the police force to shut their mouths and we will never hear from them again. Was the same kind of anger that Amy uses used by Mom against the town employees of Braintree? Or by Dad against whoever? Or by brother against whoever?