Newt Gingrich's Candidacy - 2012

[DoggerDan]

Actually this is not true. They will need supplies shipped to them in order to grow food though.

They can and do grow food in Antarctica, and they can in space, or on the moon as well.

Aye! That we can!

It's not as straightforward as some believe, though.

 

[DoggerDan]

I think the main reason JFK wanted us to get to the moon was the prestige it would give us over the Soviet Union, as part of the cold war. Now, we have no such competitive impetus. I agree, it was good for science and for inspiring people, which was an added benefit, but I don't think that was the primary reason for going.

So what do you think was the primary reason for going?

In my mind, it was to use the situation at hand to induce (aka lead) a great revolution with respect to rocket science.

 

[mheslep]

"Moon colony?" Have you any idea of the vast percentage of the U.S. budge that would require right now? Have you any idea of just how far out of favor space exploration has gone in the last few years, largely as a result of research scientists who keep saying "more! more!"

Yes, but why do you feel the need to address that to me?

while people here in America are living in squalor and starvation?

That's misinformation. People are not starving in the US for lack of resources.

 

[Astronuc]

I think Gingrinch is his own worst enemy.

Moment of Zen - Newt Gingrich's View on the Chevy Volt
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/t...-zen---newt-gingrich-s-view-on-the-chevy-volt
Newt Gingrich pooh-poohs the Chevy Volt with a false claim, and a Volt owner proves him wrong.

He (and the other candidates) need to think before they speak.

 

[Alfi]

Ya can ?? put a gun rack in a Volt.!

Yee Haa ! lol

perhaps Volt underestimated the market/marketing sales requirements in the design phase?

it's quiet ... almost stealth like ... optional gun rack on request.

 

[turbo]

Cottage industry! Gluing up PVC gun-racks for compact cars. I have lots of guns. I see no need to have a gun-rack in my pickup, though. Just another incentive for a smash-and-grab moron.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

You're still here? It's over. Go home. Go. I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked. Here is a Gingrich quote from last night taken way out of context.

Santorum won't be as popular the following morning.

Well, he didn't mean it like that, but imagine waking up in the morning with some floozy that looked so good last night when you were drunk. And it turns out to be your wife. Thanks for that insight Newt.

 

[skippy1729]

1. Sarah Palin endorsed Newt Tuesday night on Neil Cavuto's election coverage. There are still at least as many people who love and respect her as those that loath and despise her.

2. Sheldon Adelson has recently pledged another ten million to Newt's super-pac.

3. George Soros doesn't see much difference between Romney and Obama and clueless Rick Santorum revealed his true political skills when he publicly bashed JFK. If the Republicans nominate one of these guys, they deserve the four more years that they are going to get.

Newt might just rise from the dead (a third time). The next month should tell the tale.

Skippy

 

[mheslep]

...

3. George Soros doesn't see ...

How is what Soros' sees or does not see possibly relevant to Gingrich's campaign?

 

[Evo]

It appears that Newt is stealing votes from Santorum. It's doubtful that Newt has a chance, so is he staying into guarantee Romney wins? Who do you think Newt will back when he has to quit?

Now Santorum is hoping that Gingrich will abandon the race, despite the former House Speaker’s plan to stay in it. Santorum’s Super PAC – the Red, White and Blue Fund – said today that “with Gingrich exiting the race it would be a true head-to-head race and conservatives would be able to make a choice between a consistent conservative in Rick Santorum or Mitt Romney. For instance, with Gingrich out of the race Santorum would have won both Ohio and Michigan. Newt has become a hindrance to a conservative alternative.”

Unfortunately for Santorum, Gingrich said today he’s not going anywhere except on to Alabama and Mississippi, two of the next states to vote.

“If I thought he was a slam dunk to beat Romney and to beat Obama I would really consider getting out,” Gingrich said of Santorum on The Bill Bennett Show. “I don’t.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/03/super-tuesday-results-point-to-drawn-out-primary/

 

[turbo]

It appears that Newt is stealing votes from Santorum. It's doubtful that Newt has a chance, so is he staying into guarantee Romney wins? Who do you think Newt will back when he has to quit?

I can't figure out what Newt is doing. Maybe it's hubris and he really thinks he could win it, but some of his advisers should point out to him the problem with women voters. My sisters and nieces are revolted at the thought of having Callista in the WH as FLOTUS. Not a scientific survey, but they are politically aware, and they don't pull any punches when we discuss politics.

 

[ThinkToday]

I can't figure out what Newt is doing. Maybe it's hubris and he really thinks he could win it, but some of his advisers should point out to him the problem with women voters. My sisters and nieces are revolted at the thought of having Callista in the WH as FLOTUS. Not a scientific survey, but they are politically aware, and they don't pull any punches when we discuss politics.

I think it's pretty simple. The "anybody but Romney" votes total more than Romney. I think Santorum is a good person, but he's stepped in "it" several times with his comments about women in the military, birth control, etc. I'm not a woman, however, my conservative wife doesn't think too much of his comments about women’s issues. IMO Santorum could beat Romney if Newt and Paul dropped, but he'd get killed in the general election. I think Newt would beat Romney if Santorum and Paul dropped out. I think the headline yesterday that referred to the Romney "eh" nominee had it about right. I don't know anyone excited about him, and I mean no one I know. I think Gingrich is banking on Santorum continuing to step in it and he would rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, Gingrich, IMO has the most inept campaign management team in the world. Not getting on ballots, missing deadlines, not having caucus states organized, etc. It’s almost like he doesn’t want to win. If Gingrich had someone like Karl Rove running his campaign, this would be over, IMO.

Hands down, I think Gingrich would clean Obama’s clock in debates, especially the Lincoln Douglass style debate he did with Cain. Prompters don’t help the person that doesn’t have command of the facts. I personally feel strongly about getting back to the country our founding fathers envisioned.

 

[mheslep]

If Gingrich had someone like Karl Rove running his campaign, this would be over, IMO.

The problem is built in apparently: that "I will be the nominee" ego won't allow the discipline that a professional campaign manager would bring.

 

[ParticleGrl]

Hands down, I think Gingrich would clean Obama’s clock in debates, especially the Lincoln Douglass style debate he did with Cain. Prompters don’t help the person that doesn’t have command of the facts.

I don't know where this idea that Obama is somehow a dullard without a teleprompter comes from. He generally seems to be intelligent and articulate.

Also, I think Newt comes across as an opportunist who says what he thinks you want to hear. After all, he was once an advocate for cap and trade, and for a healthcare reform bill very similar to what passed under Obama. What has changed that has moved these policies from Newt's big ideas to socialism, other then a democrat centralist is now advocating them? Romney has the same problem- backing his healthcare plan back when it was considered republican centrist.

 

[Gokul43201]

I can't figure out what Newt is doing.

I think it's pretty straightforward. If Newt, Santorum and Paul stay in the race till the end, Romney likely won't have the majority he'll need to ride into the Convention as the inevitable nominee. At that point, anything is possible (albeit with strongly varying degrees of likelihood). Why would Gingrich take off his hat now, when he can leave it on till the end, and maybe, just maybe, pull a rabbit out of it at the Convention?

 

[ThinkToday]

I don't know where this idea that Obama is somehow a dullard without a teleprompter comes from. He generally seems to be intelligent and articulate.

Also, I think Newt comes across as an opportunist who says what he thinks you want to hear. After all, he was once an advocate for cap and trade, and for a healthcare reform bill very similar to what passed under Obama. What has changed that has moved these policies from Newt's big ideas to socialism, other then a democrat centralist is now advocating them? Romney has the same problem- backing his healthcare plan back when it was considered republican centrist.

He explains his positions here: http://www.newt.org/answers/

Anyone that has read any of his written works will see he has is anything but "big ideas to socialism". His recent book American Exceptionalism (not a Newt term, btw)provides a solid look at the way he thinks. Having just finished it, it can be summed up as a return to the founding fathers idea of how the Constitution was intended to work, and from that many other things fall into place on their own. Contrary to assumptions that "American Exceptionalism" means we/he think we're better than everyone else, it really has to do with reflections throughout our history on why others thought the American experience was in many ways exceptional, starting with the founding of the country. There were things in the book I had forgotten, some I had to look up to be sure, and new things I never knew. I forgot just how amazing our history really has been.

The next thing on my reading list is The Original Constitution: What it Really Said and Meant , which I found through the 10th Amendment Center and is supposed track the evolution of the Constitution, discussions at the Convention with actual written records, and meanings of the terms at the time they were written. The thoughtfulness and forethought of the founding fathers really is amazing.

Now, I almost fell out of my chair when you wrote “a democrat centralist is now advocating them”. Who are you talking about? Surely, no one in a power position.

As much as I don’t care for Romney, at least he has a defense. RomneyCare was a choice of the people of MA at the State level, meaning they citizens could vote it in or out at will. ObamaCare would require almost a Herculean effort to get out of the Federal governments control. This is especially true when there is little likelihood Republicans would ever be able to get past a filibuster in the Senate to get it to a President.

As far as Romney being a “republican centrist”, who the heck knows? I think he says what he needs to say for the audience in front of him. Hence, I don’t trust him.

 

[ParticleGrl]

Now, I almost fell out of my chair when you wrote “a democrat centralist is now advocating them”. Who are you talking about? Surely, no one in a power position.

Most of Obama's major policy proposals were championed by republicans in the 90s (his healthcare bill looks a lot like what Newt proposed to counter Clinton). If that's not ruling as a centrist, I don't know what is.

And Newt's website is just telling people what they want to hear now. Look at his discussion cap and trade- it never discusses why his position has changed. He supported cap and trade in the 90s, he supported cap and trade in 2007 under Bush, BUT now its bad. He proposed a healthcare bill very much like Obamacare in the 90s, now that's bad. He has pulled away from most of the policies he used to support, and never discusses why. Almost all of the legislation Newt championed as speaker would be considered "socialist" by today's republican party.

 

[mheslep]

Id like to see short list of Obama proposals that have been championed by repubs. Start with $800b stimulous.

 

[turbo]

How about a really short list? $700B to create TARP, under W in October of 2008.

 

[ParticleGrl]

Id like to see short list of Obama proposals that have been championed by repubs. Start with $800b stimulous.

Bush sold his tax cuts as economic stimulus (which is why they weren't permanent), price tag of over 1 trillion. He also enacted the more targeted TARP stimulus to prop banks up and began a bailout of GM.

The health care bill Obama designed was full of ideas proposed by right-of-center health care experts. Here is Stuart Butler of the Heritage Foundation in 2003 http://www.heritage.org/research/testimony/laying-the-groundwork-for-universal-health-care-coverage Of course, we shouldn't forget that the ideas in the federal bill that passed were lifted from Romney's.

Cap and trade was pushed for and originally signed into law (clean air act) by H.W. Bush, and was the standard Republican approach to pollution regulation for at least a decade. The platforms produced by McCain pushed for cap and trade, it was a common point with Obama's platform. Here is Gingrich http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front..._source=ExactTarget&utm_campaign=pressRelease as recently as 2007 supporting the idea.

 

[ThomasT]

... I think Newt comes across as an opportunist who says what he thinks you want to hear. ...

That's how he comes across to me. Not that that differentiates him from any other political candidate.

 

[mheslep]

Bush sold his tax cuts as economic stimulus (which is why they weren't permanent), price tag of over 1 trillion. He also enacted the more targeted TARP stimulus to prop banks up and began a bailout of GM.

The health care bill Obama designed was full of ideas proposed by right-of-center health care experts. Here is Stuart Butler of the Heritage Foundation in 2003 http://www.heritage.org/research/testimony/laying-the-groundwork-for-universal-health-care-coverage Of course, we shouldn't forget that the ideas in the federal bill that passed were lifted from Romney's.

Cap and trade was pushed for and originally signed into law (clean air act) by H.W. Bush, and was the standard Republican approach to pollution regulation for at least a decade. The platforms produced by McCain pushed for cap and trade, it was a common point with Obama's platform. Here is Gingrich http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front..._source=ExactTarget&utm_campaign=pressRelease as recently as 2007 supporting the idea.

By way of demonstrating "major policy proposals were championed by Republicans in the 90s" Bush's income tax cuts are said to be same as the Recovery Act spending in 2009?

Cap and trade programs used for SO2 emissions from power plants, for which the cost of scrubbing technology is well understood, is the same as a 1400 page cap and trade bill on CO2 emissions across the entire US economy with innumerable cut outs and waivers to special interests?

The healthcare comparisons also neglect the aspect of federalism, a key difference between Republicans and Democrats: what is often appropriate and legal for states is not so for the federal government.

 

[mheslep]

The health care bill Obama designed was full of ideas proposed by right-of-center health care experts. Here is Stuart Butler of the Heritage Foundation in 2003 http://www.heritage.org/research/testimony/laying-the-groundwork-for-universal-health-care-coverage

Full of ideas? Such as?

Is the individual mandate at the heart of "ObamaCare" a conservative idea? Is it constitutional? And was it invented at The Heritage Foundation? In a word, no.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinio...individual-mandate-reform-heritage/52951140/1So I'm back at TARP, and only TARP, as an idea shared at all widely by both parties, and even then by no means equally. Recall that the 1st pass at TARP failed because of a lack of Republican support.

 

[Gokul43201]

Are you saying the individual mandate was never embraced by Republicans?

 

[lisab]

Are you saying the individual mandate was never embraced by Republicans?

It was embraced by at least one Republican - Newt Gingrich:

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/gingrich-health-care-insurance/2011/05/15/id/396426

 

[mheslep]

Are you saying the individual mandate was never embraced by Republicans?

I thought what I said was clear enough. Are you saying that Gingrich's support of an insurance mandate means the gist of that 1400 page federal health care bill, which says "the secretary shall" hundreds of times, ever had broad Republican support, whether twenty years ago or now? Is Gingrich's moon base as a 51st state idea now embraced by Republicans?

 

[ParticleGrl]

By way of demonstrating "major policy proposals were championed by Republicans in the 90s" Bush's income tax cuts are said to be same as the Recovery Act spending in 2009?

The single largest portion of the 2009 stimulus act was tax relief (some 300 billion I think). Also, the logic of stimulus in the form of larger government deficits is the same either way. My point is- if stimulus is called for during a recession with a republican at the helm, then stimulus is called for during a recession with a democrat at the helm.

Full of ideas? Such as?

Did you read the heritage article I linked to?

Cap and trade programs used for SO2 emissions from power plants, for which the cost of scrubbing technology is well understood, is the same as a 1400 page cap and trade bill on CO2 emissions across the entire US economy with innumerable cut outs and waivers to special interests?

The core idea is very clearly the same- cap and trade to regulate emissions. The form of the bill that ends up being voted on is out of the president's hands- its the result of negotiations in the senate and house and the blame for exemptions for special interests/etc lay at the feet of both parties.

Also, did you look at my Gingrich link from 2007, where he specifically advocated cap and trade to regulate carbon dioxide?

EDIT:

means the gist of that 1400 page federal health care bill, which says "the secretary shall" hundreds of times, ever had broad Republican support

Of course THIS SPECIFIC health bill never had broard republican support. But my point is that the gist of the bill IS ideas that conservatives once championed- the individual mandate has a history of support from people like Gingrich. Look Stuart Butler's health care research. Individual insurance exchanges were a conservative idea originally. Romney himself suggested the president look to MA as an example for health care regulation.

Can we agree on the following:
1.conservative think tanks in the past have suggested an individual mandate
2. Gingrich in the past has suggested an individual mandate
3. Romney considers the ideas in the MA healthcare broadly speaking good ideas
3a. many of those same ideas are in the federal law.
4. conservative think tanks in the past have in the past championed cap and trade as a solution to CO2 regulation

 

[skeptic2]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...age/52951140/1

Is the individual mandate at the heart of "ObamaCare" a conservative idea? Is it constitutional? And was it invented at The Heritage Foundation? In a word, no.

In the article however he admits to having supported the individual mandate and even devising it while at the Heritage Foundation.

The confusion arises from the fact that 20 years ago, I held the view that as a technical matter, some form of requirement to purchase insurance was needed in a near-universal insurance market to avoid massive instability through "adverse selection" (insurers avoiding bad risks and healthy people declining coverage). At that time, President Clinton was proposing a universal health care plan, and Heritage and I devised a viable alternative.

Is it a conservative idea?

My view was shared at the time by many conservative experts, including American Enterprise Institute (AEI) scholars, as well as most non-conservative analysts. Even libertarian-conservative icon Milton Friedman, in a 1991 Wall Street Journal article, advocated replacing Medicare and Medicaid "with a requirement that every U.S. family unit have a major medical insurance policy."

Then he goes on to describe how he changed his position. Perhaps he is justified in saying it isn't a conservative idea by carefully using the present tense, but it certainly WAS a conservative idea. When he says "Heritage and I devised a viable alternative" how is that different from inventing it? The individual mandate certainly didn't come from Hillary Clinton who had a completely different plan.

 

[mheslep]

The single largest portion of the 2009 stimulus act was tax relief (some 300 billion I think).

Sure, I'm aware of that. There was plenty of room for agreement on that end. As I recall there was much R. support for the tax break side from McConnell (R, Ky) in particular, not the spending side.

Also, the logic of stimulus in the form of larger government deficits is the same either way. My point is- if stimulus is called for during a recession with a republican at the helm, then stimulus is called for during a recession with a democrat at the helm.

It is the means and amount that makes the difference in the political philosophy. I disagree that Obama is a centrist because he shared Republican goals to recover the economy with little regard to the means. One might as well say Bernie Sanders and Jim DeMint are of the same political persuasion because they both want good things_tm for the US.

The core idea is very clearly the same- cap and trade to regulate emissions.

There is a large difference in scale and the universal, centrally planned approach favored by the Democrats. Gingrich said in that PBS interview, "much like we did with sulfur". I saw him testify in front of Congress in front of Waxman and Markey on the subject (when they were still in charge before 2008) making the point: Gingrich would go along with cap and trade in a limited way, on large industrial sources like coal power plants just like the US has now with sulfur, where there was some hope of knowing the cost and impact of such regulations. He rejected the notion of a universal, blanket cap and trade program. In any case Gingrich's mere flirting with the idea along side Spkr Pelosi has cost him dearly in the primaries.

Of course THIS SPECIFIC health bill never had broard republican support. But my point is that the gist of the bill IS ideas that conservatives once championed- the individual mandate has a history of support from people like Gingrich. Look Stuart Butler's health care research.

The gist? I disagree. The power granted to Kathleen Sibelius alone in that bill takes it out of the realm of being championed by conservatives

Can we agree on the following:
1.conservative think tanks in the past have suggested an individual mandate

Butler at Heritage, not think tanks, suggested a catastrophic insurance mandate, not comprehensive per current law, and even that idea was eventually killed by others at Heritage back in the '90s.

2. Gingrich in the past has suggested an individual mandate

Yes.

3. Romney considers the ideas in the MA healthcare broadly speaking good ideas
3a. many of those same ideas are in the federal law.

Romney makes the federalism argument: what might work and be run by the states should not be run by the federal government. I agree with him.

4. conservative think tanks in the past have in the past championed cap and trade as a solution to CO2 regulation

Disagree.

 

[jduster]

I think this is just stating the obvious, but Newt should just drop out, even if he wins the 2 upcoming southern states. He still needs 1000 more delegates. He would need to win 18 out of the next 35 states - more than half.

Newt lacks the electability (because of his extramarital affairs) and he lacks the campaign organization to win anything more than the strategic southern states.

This is probably good for Romney, if Newt cuts into Santorum's votes, but still, Gingrich plans to drag out the process until Romney's funding is gone. Then when Romney is against Obama, Gingrich's anti-Romney campaign will come to haunt him.

And we will remember Gingrich as the man who took the Republicans' only chance to beat Obama.

Let's be honest, and there's nothing wrong with the truth. Romney will be the nominee, and Gingrich is only impeding his party.

 

[skeptic2]

Is what Cain did any worse than what Gingrich did? Adultery is crime in Georgia.

2010 Georgia Code
TITLE 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES
CHAPTER 6 - SEXUAL OFFENSES
§ 16-6-19 - Adultery
O.C.G.A. 16-6-19 (2010)
16-6-19. Adultery

A married person commits the offense of adultery when he voluntarily has sexual intercourse with a person other than his spouse and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished as for a misdemeanor.
http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-6/16-6-19/Why is it that adultery is the only sex crime for which one does not have to register as a sex offender?

 

[daveb]

Why is it adultery is still a crime is a better question. What happened to no intruding upon the personal life of citizens?

 

[Char. Limit]

Why is it adultery is still a crime is a better question. What happened to no intruding upon the personal life of citizens?

It's Georgia - it's a Republican stronghold. Do you really think they care about not intruding on the personal lives of people?

 

[BobG]

It's Georgia - it's a Republican stronghold. Do you really think they care about not intruding on the personal lives of people?

It's not only in states that are Republican strongholds. Adultery is a misdemeanor offense in New York - the same class of crime as it is in Georgia. It's a felony offense in Michigan that could, at least theoretically, result in a life sentence (granted, no one in Michigan has even been charged with adultery since 1971).

Generally, adultery is a crime a person sometimes gets dragged into court for because it's advantageous for someone to embarrass that person. Other than that, it's pretty much a dead law that exists only in writing - not in practice.

Even in divorce cases, adultery means virtually nothing when it comes to child custody and/or property division.

 

[Gokul43201]

Newt seems to be doing fairly well with one segment of the population: deep south super-religious conservatives.

-There's considerable skepticism about Barack Obama's religion with Republican voters in them. In Mississippi only 12% of voters think Obama's a Christian to 52% who think he's a Muslim ...

In Mississippi Newt's winning the 'Obama's a Muslim' vote 39-28, but in Alabama it's a three way tie with all of the leading candidates at 31%.

... in Mississippi though- only 54% of voters think it [interracial marriage] should be legal, while 29% believe it should be illegal. Newt cleans up with the 'interracial marriage should be illegal' crowd in both states. He's up 40-27 on Romney with them in Mississippi and 37-28 with them in Alabama.
...
Finally there's considerable skepticism about evolution among GOP voters in both Alabama and Mississippi. In Alabama only 26% of voters believe in it, while 60% do not. In Mississippi just 22% believe in it, while 66% do not. ... Santorum wins the 'voters who don't believe in evolution' vote (34-33 over Gingrich in both Alabama and Mississippi with Romney at 26%)

More here: http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/03/other-notes-from-alabama-and-mississippi.html
Polling data here: http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_SouthernSwing_312.pdf

In many ways I find Gingrich's religious rhetoric more unsettling than Santorum's. While the majority of Santorum's religious positions seem to be more of personal inclinations that are not very likely to leak into administrative decisions, Gingrich has said things that come pretty close to applying a religious test to making appointments and respecting judicial positions. For instance, during the Vegas debate Gingrich said “how can you have judgment if you don’t have faith and how can I trust you with power if you don’t pray?”, the obvious implication of this being that a potential President Gingrich would be either happy to appoint people to positions of power that he can't trust or that he'd be applying a religious test to his appointments.