Puerto Rico: A Complex Political Status Explained

[fisipavia]

Hi!
I'm curious. I just want to know what do you know.
What is Puerto Rico?. A state, a republic,a nation, a colony or what?
By the way, I am from Puerto Rico and I know the answer to these questions but after living in a foreing country for a while with people from an amazing variety of countries and backgrounds I was able to confirm that almost no one knows the complexity of Puerto Rico political status.

 

[member 5645]

A commonwealth of the US that gets tons of benefits from us, with self rule.

What exactly are you trying to get at?

 

[russ_watters]

Hi!
I'm curious. I just want to know what do you know.
What is Puerto Rico?. A state, a republic,a nation, a colony or what?
By the way, I am from Puerto Rico and I know the answer to these questions but after living in a foreing country for a while with people from an amazing variety of countries and backgrounds I was able to confirm that almost no one knows the complexity of Puerto Rico political status.

Being from Puerto Rico, I'm shocked you don't know. Didn't you learn about it in school? Haven't you read about the debate over its status in the newspapers?

Puerto Rico is a commonwealth and a colony, which essentially means they have all of the rights and priveleges of the states without any of the responsibilities.

 

[check]

She said that she DID know the answers, she just wanted to know what other people thought.

Edit: A little gender confusion on my part.

 

[Robert Zaleski]

Here's my thought, Either crap or get off the pot. Join the rest of us and become a bonafide state or take a walk.

 

[Monique]

What exactly are you trying to get at?

You know, it's a good question and I don't think many people will know it (especially those outside of the US). When I used to tell people I'm from the Netherlands I'd just get a blank stare, Holland usually rang a bell though (which is just a province).

 

[Robert Zaleski]

You know, it's a good question and I don't think many people will know it (especially those outside of the US). When I used to tell people I'm from the Netherlands I'd just get a blank stare, Holland usually rang a bell though (which is just a province).

If you want your kids to learn geography, get them an international postage stamp book and a world map. The stamps from Helvetia, Magyar, Sverige and Suomi were the one's that gave me trouble at first. Nederland was a piece of cake.

 

[Njorl]

You know, it's a good question and I don't think many people will know it (especially those outside of the US). When I used to tell people I'm from the Netherlands I'd just get a blank stare, Holland usually rang a bell though (which is just a province).

C'mon! The Netherlands is a fictional place that Peter Pan lived in.

You're from Holland? I thought you were Dutch?


Njorl

 

[russ_watters]

He said that he DID know the answers, he just wanted to know what other people thought.

Heh - yes, I have no reading comprehension. Then again, it was 2:15AM.

Here's my thought, Either crap or get off the pot. Join the rest of us and become a bonafide state or take a walk.

I tend to agree. Every couple of years they debate it and nothing ever happens.

Isn't Holland a city in Amsterdam?

 

[Monique]

C'mon! The Netherlands is a fictional place that Peter Pan lived in.

You're from Holland? I thought you were Dutch?


Njorl

yes, I'm dutch, speak German and live in Denmark..
just how many times have I had to correct people on that really.. (even on this board (not speaking names))

funny though

 

[fisipavia]

Puerto Rico is a commonwealth and a colony, which essentially means they have all of the rights and priveleges of the states without any of the responsibilities.

Well, I must say that I only agree with you on the colony thing. And what are the rights you are talking about?... You mean the right to vote for our president?... The right to have comerce with other countries? The right to control our land, our seas our sky? our rigth to decide when to participate in a war? The right to have our own citizenship? military service? the right to decide who enters our contry?etc, etc... you know,I don't think so because we have never have these rigths...!Ohhh but I understand, If we do not pay taxes every time we go to the supermarket then it is ok for us to not have this rights! yeah...I imagine that was the "privileges" you were talking about.

The commonwealth is just a fancy word to say colony...you know because in these times it's not acceptable talking of colonies. And yes, we do have a constitution of "commonwealth" that let us control our international affairs. But the powers that this constitution give us are just like voting for our majors, governor, representatives and senators who by the way cannot decide anything related with "our rights" mentioned above for which the US congress (in which we do not have voting representation) have total control.

And sadly I can say that in school history of PR is very poorly teached. But instead in some schools (you know in those in which you can only speak english and not spanish) the students have excellent courses of history of the United States, which is good because after all we do have a close ralation with US, but I think that it'is more important to know your onw history.

And I think like the guy that say that we have to become a state or go away. But the reality is that no matter what we do the final world is of the Congress. No matter of how many referendums we do, none of them count for the congress, none of them were "supported or controled" by it.

And sadly, a lot of puertoricans think that the "commonwealth" is the only secure way to go, because they are afraid of what can happen if we become a state or republic. But yes, Zaleski, the guy that said that we have to become a state or go away certainly knows that this "commonwealth" thing is not the right way to go.

Ahhhh...and by the way... I'am a girl ( a SHE not a HE). just clarifying.

 

[Dagenais]

Here's my thought, Either crap or get off the pot. Join the rest of us and become a bonafide state or take a walk.

What kind of attitude is that?

That's like Ontario telling Quebec to dump French like the rest of the Country or take a walk.

Famous baseball player Carlos Delgado from Puerto Rico really dislikes Americans. In fact, every time, "God Bless America", is sung before a game, he refuses to stand-up. He just stays in the dug-out.

Said Delgado (SI):

"It's a very terrible thing that happened on Sept. 11. It's (also) a terrible thing that happened in Afghanistan and Iraq," Delgado said at the time. "I just feel so sad for the families that lost relatives and loved ones in the war."

"But I think it's the stupidest war ever. Who are you fighting against? You're just getting ambushed now. We have more people dead now after the war than during the war," he said. "I don't support what they do. It's just stupid."

"Delgado, from Puerto Rico, also opposed the U.S. military's longtime use of the Puerto Rican island of Vieques for weapons testing"

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2595942

You know, it's a good question and I don't think many people will know it (especially those outside of the US). When I used to tell people I'm from the Netherlands I'd just get a blank stare, Holland usually rang a bell though (which is just a province).

I recall being in class once where we were doing trivia. And the teacher asked something about a Queen but nobody knew the answer (Netherlands was the answer). So I said Holland, she said I was wrong until she realized Holland was an acceptable answer.

But was it? Holland is just the name of a region in the Netherlands?

 

[check]

Ahhhh...and by the way... I'am a girl ( a SHE not a HE). just clarifying.

Oh, big pardon.

 

[Robert Zaleski]

What kind of attitude is that?

That's like Ontario telling Quebec to dump French like the rest of the Country or take a walk.

Sounds like a splendid idea to me, monsieur.

 

[Dagenais]

In the famous words of Pierre Trudeau, fuddle duddle. :grumpy:

I'm noticing a lot of negative comments against Francophones in Canada.

Canada is a bilingual Country. Live with it, even if you are too lazy to learn a 2nd language. :tongue2:

Need I remind you that our former Prime Minister was Quebecois and the current, speaks perfect French?

 

[fisipavia]

WOW! Lots of Canadians. I have been there and I loved it.
C'est tres beau et la gens c'est tres amigable!

 

[check]

I absolutely love the fact that Canada is bilingual. Having lived in Ontario all my life, I’ve heard a whole lot of Quebec bashing and “just let them separate” talk. It’s annoying and so stupid. I know many students think being forced to ‘learn’ French is a waste of time. I know in Ontario, students are required to take a French class from 1st grade to 9th grade. It’s too bad most of English speaking Canada is just too lazy to learn French, or remember any that they had learned. I’m like that too though.

 

[Monique]

I recall being in class once where we were doing trivia. And the teacher asked something about a Queen but nobody knew the answer (Netherlands was the answer). So I said Holland, she said I was wrong until she realized Holland was an acceptable answer.

But was it? Holland is just the name of a region in the Netherlands?

Calling the Netherlands Holland, is somewhat like calling Great Britain Scotland a little history lesson:

Holland used to be an independent country, until the 16th century when together with Northern and Southern Netherlands it became under the rule of the King of Spain. There was a lot of resistance of the Netherlands to break free from this rule. Southern Netherlands gave up the fight and became occupied by foreign forces, this now is Belgium. The Northern Netherlands won the fight and became a free republic consisting of different counties. These different counties are now the 13 provinces, two of those are North Holland and South Holland. Together they make up the Kingdom of the Netherlands.

It's not surprising that the world knows the Netherlands as Holland, since the Dutch East India Company established in 1602 was one of the great sea and colonial powers of Europe at the end of the 17th century.. It's the province that was mostly reclaimed from the sea, where the flower bulbs come from, where all the major cities are settled (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague). I happen to be from Holland so I don't take offense, I'm not sure how they feel in the other parts of the country

 

[Monique]

I know many students think being forced to ‘learn’ French is a waste of time. I know in Ontario, students are required to take a French class from 1st grade to 9th grade. It’s too bad most of English speaking Canada is just too lazy to learn French, or remember any that they had learned. I’m like that too though.

The Netherlands is bilingual.. luckily we're not forced to learn the other language (Frisian), it's only spoken in one province. Learning the foreign languages IS mandatory, so we are tought dutch, english, german and french. Some countries are really lazy, like France and Germany, or any English speaking country for that matter too..

 

[Robert Zaleski]

It's a great big wonderful world we live in

 

[russ_watters]

Well, I must say that I only agree with you on the colony thing. And what are the rights you are talking about?... You mean the right to vote for our president?... The right to have comerce with other countries? The right to control our land, our seas our sky? our rigth to decide when to participate in a war? The right to have our own citizenship? military service? the right to decide who enters our contry?etc, etc... you know,I don't think so because we have never have these rigths...!Ohhh but I understand, If we do not pay taxes every time we go to the supermarket then it is ok for us to not have this rights! yeah...I imagine that was the "privileges" you were talking about. [emphasis added]

Its not that you don't have these rights, they simply don't apply (like telling a man he has a right to an abortion). Saying "our country" is meaningless because Puerto Rico isn't a country.

That said, Puerto Rico could be a state or its own country if it wanted to. Don't get mad at me because Puerto Rico is happy with the status quo - that isn't my fault.

The commonwealth is just a fancy word to say colony...

Not quite, but sorta. Pennsylvania is a commonwealth. I guess the name is meant to imply some autonomy. In the case of PA, there isn't any more than other states. In the case of Puerto Rico, there is.

And sadly, a lot of puertoricans think that the "commonwealth" is the only secure way to go, because they are afraid of what can happen if we become a state or republic.

And that's the catch: more freedom means more responsibility. Tough choice.

That's like Ontario telling Quebec to dump French like the rest of the Country or take a walk.

Not even close. Quebec is a full-fledged state (province) of Canada(afaik), with all the rights and responsibilities attached with that position.

Famous baseball player Carlos Delgado from Puerto Rico really dislikes Americans.

He's famous so his opinion should matter to me? Uh, sure...

 

[kat]

I"m sorry, maybe my memory is hazy..but didn't Puerto Rico vote on whether they wanted to be a commonwealth or not..and wasn't it that vote that decided that they would be?

 

[Njorl]

I"m sorry, maybe my memory is hazy..but didn't Puerto Rico vote on whether they wanted to be a commonwealth or not..and wasn't it that vote that decided that they would be?

Several times I believe.

Their status is not all roses. While they do gain some privaleges and few burdens of a state, they have little power. I won't lose any sleep over it, because they can end that situation any time they want. They're like the 30 year old son with a good job still living with his parents.

Njorl

 

[Robert Zaleski]

Several times I believe.

Their status is not all roses. While they do gain some privaleges and few burdens of a state, they have little power. I won't lose any sleep over it, because they can end that situation any time they want. They're like the 30 year old son with a good job still living with his parents.
Njorl

That's right Njorl, there parasites.

 

[Njorl]

That's right Njorl, there parasites.

Not necessarily. The 30 year old son might mow the lawn and take out the trash, and he might even be good company.

...but he can't have girls over.

Njorl

 

[Robert Zaleski]

I don't see any Puerto Rican's mowing my lawn or taking out the trash.

 

[e(ho0n3]

I don't see any Puerto Rican's mowing my lawn or taking out the trash.

That's because they're all mexicans...

 

[fisipavia]

Its not that you don't have these rights, they simply don't apply (like telling a man he has a right to an abortion). Saying "our country" is meaningless because Puerto Rico isn't a country.

OH I'm sorry I thought that you being from US, "the great defensor of democracy", would think that those rights applied to everybody.

And now I'll do like Monique: A little history lesson.

PR was invaded in 1898 by US some months after Spain finally approved our autonomy. We first have a military occupation, and then all of our governors were nombrated by the US. In 1948 we elected our first governor EVER. And yes, the people vote in favor of our constitution (commonwealth) during the period of ruling of this governor. That was the first time that we were able "to vote". But of course our constitution couldn't speak of none of the areas controlled by the congress. Let me put it this way. If you are really, really locked is some small place, and someone offers you to let you walk 1 feet out from your cage, won't you accept it?
and in fact,for that time it WAS a great thing, but since then nothing more has happend.

And don't call us parasites, because you will never force a parasite inside of your body. The citizenship was gave to us in 1917, nobody asked for it, it was just imposed. ja,ja... 1917... first world war...citizen...so you must go and fight in the war... but of course you cannot vote... as watters said.."you are not a contry" but fight...sure you can!

We have been taught that americans are superiors and that is why so many puertoricans want to be americans. I think that we must remember that no culture is inferior! Here is an example.

My grandfather spend a week in jail because when he was call to make the obligatory military service and they talk to him in english he said that we didn't know english because he wasn't american.

I do think that our major problem is the mentality that we have that we must be "protected" by some major potency. But this mentality comes from our history. We have been a colony for 511 years! Since the arrivals of the Spanish

Historically we have been oppresed and that's not a fantasy of mine... that's the truth. And you know why we depend so much in the US?... because as I say before we cannot have international relations or commerce, only with the US, we are not able to make cooperations treaties!... recently there has been founded an Association for the countries of the Caribbean and we cannot participate on it.

And don't call us parasites because I studied and work as much as you do.

 

[fisipavia]

I don't see any Puerto Rican's mowing my lawn or taking out the trash.

nope, we just die in your wars

 

[Dagenais]

I absolutely love the fact that Canada is bilingual. Having lived in Ontario all my life, I’ve heard a whole lot of Quebec bashing and “just let them separate” talk. It’s annoying and so stupid. I know many students think being forced to ‘learn’ French is a waste of time. I know in Ontario, students are required to take a French class from 1st grade to 9th grade. It’s too bad most of English speaking Canada is just too lazy to learn French, or remember any that they had learned. I’m like that too though.

I'd like to nominate this post as the Post of The Year.

He's famous so his opinion should matter to me? Uh, sure...

It should matter that he's disrespecting your Country - publicly at that, in New York, the site of 9-11. A country that pays him millions and millions of dollars. And baseball is huge in Puerto Rico. An idol like Delgado voicing his opinion on America is bound to have an effect on many Puerto Ricans.

As for the Quebec part -yes, except for a few things Quebecois do hold the rights and responsibilities of Canadian citizenships. The schooling however, is extremely different, the laws are different and if the Bloc or Parti Quebecois gets voted in - well, Quebec will be even more different.

 

[check]

the laws are different.

Not only are the laws different, the entire legal system in Quebec is different than in the rest of Canada.

 

[Robert Zaleski]

OH I'm sorry I thought that you being from US, "the great defensor of democracy", would think that those rights applied to everybody.

And now I'll do like Monique: A little history lesson.

PR was invaded in 1898 by US some months after Spain finally approved our autonomy. We first have a military occupation, and then all of our governors were nombrated by the US. In 1948 we elected our first governor EVER. And yes, the people vote in favor of our constitution (commonwealth) during the period of ruling of this governor. That was the first time that we were able "to vote". But of course our constitution couldn't speak of none of the areas controlled by the congress. Let me put it this way. If you are really, really locked is some small place, and someone offers you to let you walk 1 feet out from your cage, won't you accept it?
and in fact,for that time it WAS a great thing, but since then nothing more has happend.

And don't call us parasites, because you will never force a parasite inside of your body. The citizenship was gave to us in 1917, nobody asked for it, it was just imposed. ja,ja... 1917... first world war...citizen...so you must go and fight in the war... but of course you cannot vote... as watters said.."you are not a contry" but fight...sure you can!

We have been taught that americans are superiors and that is why so many puertoricans want to be americans. I think that we must remember that no culture is inferior! Here is an example.

My grandfather spend a week in jail because when he was call to make the obligatory military service and they talk to him in english he said that we didn't know english because he wasn't american.

I do think that our major problem is the mentality that we have that we must be "protected" by some major potency. But this mentality comes from our history. We have been a colony for 511 years! Since the arrivals of the Spanish

Historically we have been oppresed and that's not a fantasy of mine... that's the truth. And you know why we depend so much in the US?... because as I say before we cannot have international relations or commerce, only with the US, we are not able to make cooperations treaties!... recently there has been founded an Association for the countries of the Caribbean and we cannot participate on it.

And don't call us parasites because I studied and work as much as you do.

Sweetie Pie, mommy and daddy have decided to cut you loose. Daddy thinks your an ingrate and mommy, well mommy, she's just tired of your friggin whining.