Relating gravity to time through black holes and Gravitational time dialation?

In summary, the conversation covered various concepts related to time dilation, specifically gravitational time dilation and velocity-based time dilation. The discussion included examples such as the famous concord experiment and the calibration of GPS satellites. It was also speculated about what would happen as an object approaches the center of a massive body, such as the Earth or Jupiter, and if this could eventually lead to the occurrence of a black hole. The conclusion was that while both types of time dilation play a role, it is still not clear if following this to its logical conclusion would result in the formation of a black hole.
  • #1
fantagoid
1
0
Right,

it's been a long time since I've done anything physics related, and I've never been an expert to begin with, just a level standard, but was having a bit of a chat with a friend earlier and wanted to see if what we were saying makes any sense atall?

We were having a bit of an argument over altitude and boiling eggs, and weather it's the cooking time, or the boiling of the water that takes longer. i got this cleared up and was saying that (not taking temperature into account) water should boil faster, and in a jokey way that even time would travel slightly faster therfor speeding up the boiling process by an incredibly small amount.

My friend then mentioned that he though it was velocity difference that can cause difference in the perception of time for an observer and we started talking about the famous concord experiment.

so, what i think happened was, 1 atomic clock on the ground, stationary, and another in a concord flying round the world at a higher altitude than the other clock.

what exactly was causing the difference in time here, was it gravititional time dilation due to the concord being further away from the earth, or was it velocity based time dialation, since the concord was traveling at a faster velocity compare to the other clock. or, as we througt, is it a combination of both?

Then we were thinking about GPS satillites, and we know that they would have to be calibrated for small time differences, which form of time dilation would have the most effect on the satillite?

Anyways, then we started thinking about what would happen the closer you got to the center of the earth, would time get slower and slower, and then eventually reach a point where it couldn't slow down anymore? i'd imagine this speed would be related to the gravitational force of the earth/mass, and may even possibly be concidered the "correct" time for earth?

if we then though about the time at the center of jupiter, i'd imagine it to be slower again than our "earth time" and so on as mass and gravitiotinal forces incresed, this must carry on until time slows down sooo much, that it would almost have stopped to the observer.

would at this point we be talking about the occurance of a black hole? when the object's gravity becomes too much that it collapses?

or is this gravitational based time dilation a lot more subtle than i am imagining, and even comparing very small and incredible large gravitational forces, time doesn't actually chance much?
 
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  • #2
fantagoid said:
Right,

My friend then mentioned that he though it was velocity difference that can cause difference in the perception of time for an observer and we started talking about the famous concord experiment.

so, what i think happened was, 1 atomic clock on the ground, stationary, and another in a concord flying round the world at a higher altitude than the other clock.

what exactly was causing the difference in time here, was it gravititional time dilation due to the concord being further away from the earth, or was it velocity based time dialation, since the concord was traveling at a faster velocity compare to the other clock. or, as we througt, is it a combination of both?
Special Relativity (velocity-driven dilation) makes a very small contribution at these velocities. It is General Ralativity (gravity-driven dilation) that contributes the lion's share.

http://leapsecond.com/great2005/tour/" of that. In this case, v=0.

fantagoid said:
Then we were thinking about GPS satillites, and we know that they would have to be calibrated for small time differences, which form of time dilation would have the most effect on the satillite?
Still GR, as above.

Knowing the speed of geostat satellites, you can calculate the SR effect for yourself - http://www.1728.com/reltivty.htm" .


fantagoid said:
Anyways, then we started thinking about what would happen the closer you got to the center of the earth, would time get slower and slower, and then eventually reach a point where it couldn't slow down anymore?
Yes but it is still a pretty small effect.


fantagoid said:
if we then though about the time at the center of jupiter, i'd imagine it to be slower again than our "earth time" and so on as mass and gravitiotinal forces incresed, this must carry on until time slows down sooo much, that it would almost have stopped to the observer.

would at this point we be talking about the occurance of a black hole? when the object's gravity becomes too much that it collapses?

or is this gravitational based time dilation a lot more subtle than i am imagining, and even comparing very small and incredible large gravitational forces, time doesn't actually chance much?
Good question. I am not sure if one can deduce black holes by following this to its logical conclusion.
 
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  • #3
the difference in time between atomic clock on the ground atomic clock on the ground was because both gravitational time dilation and velocity based time dilation . and this link is about GR and GPS :-
http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-1/
 
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1. How does gravity affect time near black holes?

Gravity near black holes is extremely strong, which causes time to slow down. This is known as gravitational time dilation. The closer an object is to the black hole, the slower time will pass for that object compared to an object further away.

2. What is the relationship between gravity and time dialation?

The relationship between gravity and time dilation is that the stronger the gravitational field, the more time will be affected. This means that time will pass slower near objects with a higher mass and stronger gravitational pull, such as black holes.

3. How does gravitational time dilation impact the passage of time?

Gravitational time dilation causes time to pass at a slower rate for objects near a strong gravitational field. This means that time will appear to pass faster for objects further away from the gravitational source. This effect has been observed and confirmed through various experiments and observations.

4. Can gravitational time dilation be observed in everyday life?

Yes, gravitational time dilation can be observed in everyday life. For example, the Global Positioning System (GPS) satellites orbiting Earth experience time dilation due to their high speed and distance from Earth's surface. Without accounting for this effect, GPS systems would be inaccurate by several kilometers.

5. How does the concept of space-time relate to gravity and black holes?

According to Einstein's theory of general relativity, gravity is not a force between masses, but rather a curvature of space and time caused by the presence of mass and energy. This means that the strong gravitational pull of black holes causes a significant curvature in space-time, which leads to the phenomenon of gravitational time dilation.

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