Anyone considering a career as a patent attorney?

[MSEE_5yrs]

Searching is definitely outsourced more often but that's the only big change I've noticed and it's the most straightforward of IP services. The preparation of patent applications is not outsourced and this is one big reason why http://patentlyo.com/patent/2008/07/outsourcing-of.html . Also, the prosecution of patent applications is not frequently outsourced. Legal services are highly personal services. There are attorneys that charge $1,000 an hour and attorneys that charge a heck of a lot less. As I noted previously, relationships and expertise (whether that be for a specific technology, legal expertise and experience or knowledge about your client) are very important for clients and firms. As we all know from call service experiences in India, they have a long way to go before they will really be able to compete in matters of communication. Sorry, I'm super busy at the moment. I hope this is clear and makes sense. Main point, be aware of India but not afraid of how the market for patent agents is developing.

Thank you so much for removing time for me in the middle of a work day, to help me with my queries.
It makes a lot of sense, and maybe I can use them for my advantage, to get the mundane work done there.

 

[gravenewworld]

Does anyone still pursue this career arc anymore? The market for both attorneys and law schools is crashing at an almost comical rate (oversaturation, too many schools, etc.). Is law school really worth 6-figure debt these days?

 

[Gabrielle S]

Hello. I am currently pursuing a BA in Neuroscience and would like to pursue a career in patent law. I plan to obtain an MS in biotechnology, which is offered by Johns Hopkins, and then go to law school immediately after. Do you think this is a good path to take, or will I be at a major disadvantage if I do not get a PhD?

 

[berned_you]

Hello. I am currently pursuing a BA in Neuroscience and would like to pursue a career in patent law. I plan to obtain an MS in biotechnology, which is offered by Johns Hopkins, and then go to law school immediately after. Do you think this is a good path to take, or will I be at a major disadvantage if I do not get a PhD?

I recommend you do a quick google search to try and identify a patent attorney in your area that has a neuroscience background. Then contact them (or a few) and ask this question. They will be able to provide you with more helpful insight then I can and it is a good networking opportunity. Don't feel shy to contact patent attorneys as most are nice and will give you a few moments of their time. It's best to contact people via telephone as most emails from unknown sources don't get attention. Just be polite, explain who you are and ask if they have a few moments to answer a question or two.

 

[t556ee]

If this was already addressed, I apologize.

Are advanced degrees required in the EE/CS fields? Supposing one completed undergrad in EE and then law school is that enough or are MS/PhD recommended/required? What about completing PE exam?

I understand job markets are competitive and want to know what the stance is on engineers.Thanks.

 

[EngTurnedIPAtty]

Advanced degrees are not required. EE/CS is a growing field and in some cases some firms may desire it. but certainly this is not required. Life Sciences seems to be different. Having real world engineering experience seems to almost be of greater value. Most firms will likely desire some IP experience as well. The IP experience can be formed via Examiner jobs, working in a corporate IP group, tech transfer offices, etc.

 

[zhuozhuolin]

How to figure out if a certain law school has a solid patent program? Thanks.

 

[Bin]

Hey folks, I'm Greg's sister. One career many scientists do not consider is becoming a patent attorney. I've been practicing as an intellectual property attorney for 6 years now. Does anyone have any questions regarding a career in patent law? I'd be more than happy to provide some insight.

Thank you so much for all the information. I have a J.D. degree but I do not have science background. I found that some universities offer accelerated 1-year master's programs, like Master of Engineering in EECS. How is the Master of Engineering compared to Master of Science in respect to convince law firms that I have earned enough science background in EE?

 

[Jen F]

Hi,

I am a chemist who plans on getting a 2nd degree in computer science in the fall. I have 3 years of pharma experience and plan on working full time while I get the comp sci degree. I have been considering becoming a patent agent since college because I love chemistry content but hate lab work.

I hope after finishing my computer science degree I can get into an Ivy League law school and become a patent lawyer for a big firm that pays me 150k a year. I am a workaholic and am used to 70 hour work weeks. I like being work obsessed, so I am more than willing to put in the hours for a big pay off.

Do you think my game plan sounds good and makes me a desirable patent layer for a big firm? I am nervous about the cost of law school but I am willing to take on that debt for a big pay off. People tell me different things but I would like to hear from a real patent attorney on if I have a good plan to become successful in this field! Please let me know if I should be looking to do more or skip certain steps, such as going to law school or getting the comp sci degree. Although I think computers are the future so knowing that technology should be useful for patent law...

Any insight is appreciated. Thank you!

 

[berned_you]

Hi,

I am a chemist who plans on getting a 2nd degree in computer science in the fall. I have 3 years of pharma experience and plan on working full time while I get the comp sci degree. I have been considering becoming a patent agent since college because I love chemistry content but hate lab work.

I hope after finishing my computer science degree I can get into an Ivy League law school and become a patent lawyer for a big firm that pays me 150k a year. I am a workaholic and am used to 70 hour work weeks. I like being work obsessed, so I am more than willing to put in the hours for a big pay off.

Do you think my game plan sounds good and makes me a desirable patent layer for a big firm? I am nervous about the cost of law school but I am willing to take on that debt for a big pay off. People tell me different things but I would like to hear from a real patent attorney on if I have a good plan to become successful in this field! Please let me know if I should be looking to do more or skip certain steps, such as going to law school or getting the comp sci degree. Although I think computers are the future so knowing that technology should be useful for patent law...

Any insight is appreciated. Thank you!

What's your pharma experience in if you have a comp sci degree?

 

[neosoul]

I'm considering becoming a patent attorney or patent agent, but I have a dilemma.

Currently, I'm a rising junior. I want to get accepted into a PhD program in experimental condensed matter physics. I look forward to being able to work in a lab daily, and making "groundbreaking" discoveries. I want the experience I get working in the lab to be a stepping stone into establishing a research firm. I don't want to be the CEO of the firm. I think that would be more fitting for someone with a business management background. Even after establishing the research firm, I want to be doing the research.

Here's where becoming a patent attorney or patent agent comes in. I love the idea of being able to be a patent agent. I'm more on the side of patent agent than patent attorney. I feel that law school will take a way my time from the lab or from science in general. If I do become a patent agent, is it necessary for me to always work at a firm. Will I have to completely give up working in the lab and creating my own devices and making my own discoveries?

 

[berned_you]

"If I do become a patent agent, is it necessary for me to always work at a firm. Will I have to completely give up working in the lab and creating my own devices and making my own discoveries?"

There are patent agents in both companies and firms, however, in either position you won't be anywhere near a lab and it's highly unlikely that you'll be making any discoveries of your own. In a firm context, you need to work hard to NOT become an inventor as it creates a conflict of interest. In a company setting, there may be less restriction on becoming an inventor but you still won't be anywhere near a lab and any sort of "inventing" won't be in your job description.

 

[neosoul]

There are patent agents in both companies and firms, however, in either position you won't be anywhere near a lab and it's highly unlikely that you'll be making any discoveries of your own. In a firm context, you need to work hard to NOT become an inventor as it creates a conflict of interest. In a company setting, there may be less restriction on becoming an inventor but you still won't be anywhere near a lab and any sort of "inventing" won't be in your job description.

I'm actually not driven by making patents anyway. I would like to work for (and later establish and manage) a research form that does some research for bigger companies.

Thanks for your response. I've been looking for someone that could give me a great answer based on their knowledge and experience.

 

[Jen F]

What's your pharma experience in if you have a comp sci degree?

I'm sorry you misunderstood! I have a degree in chemistry, and I plan on getting a degree in computer science in addition to that. I am starting classes this fall. After I'm done getting a computer science degree in 2 years, I want to apply to law school...

 

[Godric]

I've recently been considering becoming a patent agent in Canada. It sounds like a really interesting, rewarding career that I could actually enjoy doing. I know here in Canada you only really need a trainee position for 24 months and some kind of engineering or science degree to get that position in the first place before you can sit the (incredibly difficult) exams. I am going to be graduating with a major in physics and minor in mathematics a year from now and I am trying to decide what the best path to take would be. I could go to law school and become an actual patent attorney, or I could attempt to get a trainee position with just my bachelors, or do a masters in some kind of engineering, or I could go on to do a masters in Medical Physics (the other career I've been considering) and then potentially move to patent law from there. Which path would be the most useful towards being a patent agent?

 

[SiliconGene]

Hey, I have a few questions and this looks like a great place to find answers!

I'm currently a chemical engineering student on a six month internship for a big name biotech company in the Bay area. I have a about 1 year of additional work experience as a research assistant at a couple different universities under my belt, and have one semester left prior to graduation. A career in patent law only recently became a topic of interest to me, mostly because I've been searching for ways to have a career closely related to science, without actually working in the lab, so to speak. I'll be having lunch with a patent attorney working in my company's legal department in the near future, so my questions don't get answered here, hopefully she'll be able to offer more insight.

1. I have the option of graduating with a "concentration" in biochemical engineering, as opposed to just chemical engineering. It's not a second degree to any extent; just an extra line on my diploma that indicates I've taken extra classes related to biology and biochemical engineering. I would have to take two additional classes this coming semester in order to complete my concentration. Would this concentration be of any additional benefit to me?
2. I will be applying to a two year rotational program following completion of my internship. This would effectively make me a full time employee for the biotech company I'm currently employed at for the next two years. Assuming I am offered a position in the program, or I find employment elsewhere, would work experience in the field benefit my application to law school? Or should I apply immediately after graduating?
3. If "real world" experience would be beneficial to my application, the next question to ask would be how much? How many years should I work in the field before going back to law school? I can see arguments going both ways from a personal standpoint (family, motivation, etc), but I'm more interested in the professional aspects, i.e. is there some sort of hypothetical "golden zone" where an admissions board sees adequate work experience without the applicant appearing "too old" (or something similar).
4. How do people pay for law school?! I'm sure Google could help me find generic answers, but I'm sure the landscape is slightly different for engineers looking to switch to IP law.

Sorry if this all sounds slightly scatter-brained, I woke up not twenty minutes ago!

 

[berned_you]

Hey, I have a few questions and this looks like a great place to find answers!

I'm currently a chemical engineering student on a six month internship for a big name biotech company in the Bay area. I have a about 1 year of additional work experience as a research assistant at a couple different universities under my belt, and have one semester left prior to graduation. A career in patent law only recently became a topic of interest to me, mostly because I've been searching for ways to have a career closely related to science, without actually working in the lab, so to speak. I'll be having lunch with a patent attorney working in my company's legal department in the near future, so my questions don't get answered here, hopefully she'll be able to offer more insight.

1. I have the option of graduating with a "concentration" in biochemical engineering, as opposed to just chemical engineering. It's not a second degree to any extent; just an extra line on my diploma that indicates I've taken extra classes related to biology and biochemical engineering. I would have to take two additional classes this coming semester in order to complete my concentration. Would this concentration be of any additional benefit to me?
2. I will be applying to a two year rotational program following completion of my internship. This would effectively make me a full time employee for the biotech company I'm currently employed at for the next two years. Assuming I am offered a position in the program, or I find employment elsewhere, would work experience in the field benefit my application to law school? Or should I apply immediately after graduating?
3. If "real world" experience would be beneficial to my application, the next question to ask would be how much? How many years should I work in the field before going back to law school? I can see arguments going both ways from a personal standpoint (family, motivation, etc), but I'm more interested in the professional aspects, i.e. is there some sort of hypothetical "golden zone" where an admissions board sees adequate work experience without the applicant appearing "too old" (or something similar).
4. How do people pay for law school?! I'm sure Google could help me find generic answers, but I'm sure the landscape is slightly different for engineers looking to switch to IP law.

Sorry if this all sounds slightly scatter-brained, I woke up not twenty minutes ago!

I think the advice you'll get from your coworker will be much more tailored/accurate than any I could provide to you. For #3, real world experience is always valued but not necessary. For #4, scholarships are awesome if you can get them but if not, you probably need to take out cripplingly large loans. Don't go into law school unless you know it's what you want to do because it's definitely an investment.

 

[biotech2015]

hi! I am a biotechnology undergrad interested in ipr and patenting. how do i become a patent agent?? is getting a phd compulsory? what is the salary a patent agent in the field of biotechnoogy can expect??im currently applying for masters programs and i need direction

 

[js088]

hi! I am a biotechnology undergrad interested in ipr and patenting. how do i become a patent agent?? is getting a phd compulsory? what is the salary a patent agent in the field of biotechnoogy can expect??im currently applying for masters programs and i need direction

As far as I know you just have to clear the USPTO Patent Bar and they need you to have a background in science. So you should be alright. Your average salary would depend on where you start off i.e. in law firms or in legal departments of tech start-ups or established players or with the USPTO etc. So somewhere between $55,000 to $125,000.

 

[neosoul]

Would former experimental research scientists be preferred by those looking to hire patent attorneys? What about people with physics BSc & engineering PhD?

 

[js088]

Well I reckon the PhD in engineering wouldn't hurt. As for research scientists, that would again be dependent upon the job profile. However, some firms would definitely require their attorneys to have domain specific knowledge to interact with R & D departments of other organizations.

 

[Jayoung600]

So, I am majoring in Philosophy and minoring in Computer Science. Would minoring in computer science be enough to take the patent exam or would I have to get experience with the minor?

 

[jack476]

Hey folks, I'm Greg's sister. One career many scientists do not consider is becoming a patent attorney.

Except, you know, that one guy.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

What about math majors? It's not my first choice but I'm not ready to take the option completely off the table yet. Would taking a communications or political science minor help me?

 

[Evolveng]

Hello! Great discussion page.

My undergrad was in Biotechnology Engineering, and very recently I completed my Master's in Pharmaceutical Regulatory Affairs. The MS isn't what I expected it to be. My aptitude bolsters creative thinking and problem thinking and hence, Regulatory career isn't the right choice for me. It would help me a lot if you could answer my queries.

1. I was wondering if I have any chances of becoming a Patent agent?
2. Are there any schools for such program? If yes, how expensive is it?
3. What are my other career options?

Thank you.
Yay! 199th post.

 

[ChEmicallyEmily]

I know this thread was originally from a long time ago but if you are still replying...

I have always been interested in patent law and going to law school but wanted to make some money after getting my bachelors degree in chemical engineering. I have been working for a pharmaceutical/vaccine company for the past three years out of school.

Is it necessary to get a PhD in ChE like it is for chemistry to have a better chance at getting a good job? What is the career outlook for a ChE gone IP Attorney?

Just curious as it makes me nervous to pursue a completely different career path when I have a good (but not perfect for me) job currently.

 

[jahnavivibha]

I'm doing my Chemical Engineering. Will it be more beneficial to gain some work experience in my sector before going to law school to be a patent attorney or should i directly start preparing for school right after my graduation. Also, especially in Chemical Engineering, will it be better to get a masters degree in CE and then pursue law or will that be a waste of time?

 

[kevin dunnells]

Hi
Really enjoy this post

I have a few questions I am currently pursuing a degree in EE and want to attend Law school to become a Patent attorney.

1. What is the difference between IP law and Patent law?

2. You mentioned that it was hard to get a job in the field back in a post from 2012, have you noticed an increase in job openings with the increase in technology. If technology increases as what seems to be an exponential rate, does you see this as Patent Law being a field that is going to be growing and more demanding?

3. Obviously a MS is better than a BS do you find it necessary for an EE to have a MS in order to have a good starting job? Also i will have 8 months of experience, when I graduate, from co-ops. While in Law school do you see it to be better to try to get more experience in my summers off while in law school by doing more co-ops or internships, or do you think it is better to try to take courses in the summer to work towards a MS in EE an CE. If it is a 3 year program, i will have 3 summer off where i can take some classes towards a MS or gain potentially 9 months experience. A MS on top of my JD would be very expensive, do you see a return in the investment or if my law school is good enough do you think that will set me ahead enough.

4. What are some good schools for someone who is projected to get a 3.6 GPA in an EE degree and a 165 on the LSAT, I looked at some schools online and saw there average acceptance criteria, I guess a better question would be based off of your knowledge of well established schools are there any that come to mind that are very well respected in the Patent law field that could be within reach for me?

 

[Shane O]

I have a degree in Polymer & Color Chemistry and currently work as a Product Development Engineer at a Medical Device company but I'm finding myself managing people more than actually trying to develop products and inventions which has caused some grief for me other than my own personal projects I work on and do preliminary patents on. My friend who is currently in law school for patent law suggested studying and taking the bar to be a patent agent so I do not have to spend more on school right away but can go back to studying and incorporating my knowledge and experience into helping others with their inventions which seemed like a huge win for me. Is this reasonable or do patent agent rarely find work I guess is what I'm asking? I'd hate to go through all of this work and effort just to find out I can not find a job doing it.

 

[Iamashu]

Hi, don't know you still replying or not, I have btech(engineering) with around 2+ years of consulting experience, also have done short course(3months) in IP. You believe patent engineer/analyst/engineer job in a firm is possible without master degree? And only path after patent analyst is patent attorney or there is something like patent manager? Thanks

 

[fightingforgd]

Well ,I just walked by and shared some of your opinions.Thank you !

 

[ChidinmaOkonkwo]

Hi, I am a student and I am looking for an internship experience in patent law. I specifically want to intern in DC and I was wondering if you know any good patent law firms in DC.

 

[berkeman]

Hi, I am a student and I am looking for an internship experience in patent law. I specifically want to intern in DC and I was wondering if you know any good patent law firms in DC.

Welcome to the PF.

What resources are you using in your internship search so far? What is your experience in this area (what year student in what major)?

 

[mxg2579]

I am currently a senior for my bachelors in EE and I am considering patent law. This field is so interesting but the possibility of debt is very daunting. The law school I would most likely intend would incur around 60-80,000 in debt. Would you say that a large amount of debt such as this is a burden and hard to pay off? That is a very scary thought.

Thanks for your time

 

[mxg2579]

I also have another question. So many articles claim that "patent law is one area where employment prospects are good and are expected to remain so," and some other people claim that getting a JD is more like a career "VD" (meaning disease). I know online everyone is strongly opinionated one way or another, but how do you truly know if going to law school will be worth it? Is it really a gamble, since you cannot faithfully predict what the job market will be like in 3 years?

Another claim is that once you get the JD, you pretty much lose any chance of securing a job back in the technical field (like EE for instance). These claims are very hard to stomach, if they were true. I know law school for anyone is a risk, but how can you determine if it is worth it?

I've read through much of the forum posts, but sorry if I missed something that talked about this.

 

[Gypsie666]

Interested in hirin student's to do patent research where would I find such student's