Society and getting assaulted in jail

  • Thread starter PIT2
  • Start date
In summary: People will then think longer before they commit a crime, because prison is such a horrible punishment.
  • #36
cyrusabdollahi said:
I think they should get increased punishments for their stupidity.
We disagree on one fact at least. I do not think that punishment is the right answer to social misbehavior.

I have always considered that prison is a mean to separate an individual from society, to let him time to realize what he did wrong. This separation, per se, is already quite a punishment, and we use it because we have no other mean as of today. A better solution would be if we can keep the person inside the society and survey his behavior constantly, in details. Have him psychologically helped if necessary.

That's just start, and that is already impossible to achieve unfortunately.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #37
cyrusabdollahi said:
Actually, that is murder. If a guy is in jail for say 5-10 years, but kills someone while in jail, he will go from 5-10 to life in prison. Even in jail, the law applies.

Yea, but rape is a crime as well of course. It should be prevented. Although I admit that it isn't practical to have a guard watch over the shoulder of each prisoner, and they don't really deserve that protection anyway - I happily admit that. Sometimes people do go to jail for dumb trivial things like gassing up the car and driving off, and I would guess that these people are often targeted because they lack the jail experience needed to survive there.
 
  • #38
A better solution would be if we can keep the person inside the society and survey his behavior constantly, in details. Have him psychologically helped if necessary.

So I can get into a rage and kill 10 people and just have someone monitor me? That makes no sense.
 
  • #39
Yea, there are definitely some people that NEED to be separated from society permanently.
 
Last edited:
  • #40
cyrusabdollahi said:
humanino, look.

I hear what you are saying and I totally agree with you. These kinds of things should not happen. But what *really* pisses me off is when idiots like this guy go to jail and then they cry and cry about what happened to them. People like this are scum to society. I think they should get increased punishments for their stupidity.
Yeah I'm sure you would feel exactly the same way if you were the one who made a similar mistake and subsequently payed the price with repeated rape. :rolleyes:

I see your point that drink drivers, who put other peoples lives at risk in this way need to be punished, but this is by no means just punishment for the crime.
 
Last edited:
  • #41
cyrusabdollahi said:
That makes no sense.
However, it would make more sens to try to understand why you were lead to kill those people, so as to prevent that it happens again. Monitoring is part of the process, if we could for instance monitor the person's reactions to different social situations etc... Putting somebody in jail for life is what makes no sens to me.
 
  • #42
So are you going to monitor every single person in the entire world so now new crimes happen ever again? This logic is horribly flawed.

Putting someone in jail makes perfect sense. You committed a crime, and you must pay for that crime. This is how society functions, since the beginning of time. If it ant broke, don't fix it.
 
  • #43
cyrusabdollahi said:
This logic is horribly flawed.
I know it is impossible. I'm just saying that this would be the right answer. The mere concept of prison is just not right.

And I believe the advance of computing technologies can make the survey possible. This is a bit scary however.
 
  • #44
What is the right answer, having a society where everyone is monitored 24-7?

Yikes, and I thought communism was bad. This is outlandish. Not even in a perfect dreamworld would this work.
 
  • #45
cyrusabdollahi said:
Putting someone in jail makes perfect sense.
I'll make a stupid analogy, enlighting why it does not make sens to me. If some piece of your computer is broken, you can either trash it and buy a new one, or fix it. Fixing it seems to be a better solution.

If somebody misbehave in society, have him fixed :smile:
I know I sound crazy.
It is just better than hidding him where nobody can see him and forget him. That will for sure not fix him to come back in society.
 
  • #46
cyrusabdollahi said:
everyone monitored
Not everybody. Only those who misbehaved.
 
  • #47
dontdisturbmycircles said:
Sometimes people do go to jail for dumb trivial things like gassing up the car and driving off, and I would guess that these people are often targeted because they lack the jail experience needed to survive there.
It's doubtful that a person that commited a menial crime would be sent to a maximum security prison. That is where the really bad criminals are sent and that is where the type of things that the OP describes go on. Although it's likely to happen in any prison, someone convicted of a white collar crime is going to end up in a country club prison where that kind of behavior is unlikely.

Also, a local or county jail isn't like a federal prison.
 
  • #48
Late night comics have no humanity when joking about celebrities in jail being raped.
 
  • #49
humanino said:
Not everybody. Only those who misbehaved.

And what about those people that will commit crimes for the first time? How do you stop that? It just makes no sense.

Unless you want tom cruise running your society. :wink:
 
  • #50
Evo said:
It's doubtful that a person that commited a menial crime would be sent to a maximum security prison. That is where the really bad criminals are sent and that is where the type of things that the OP describes go on. Although it's likely to happen in any prison, someone convicted of a white collar crime is going to end up in a country club prison where that kind of behavior is unlikely.

Also, a local or county jail isn't like a federal prison.

True, didn't consider that. Thanks. :smile:
 
  • #51
cyrusabdollahi said:
And what about those people that will commit crimes for the first time? How do you stop that? It just makes no sense.
One cannot prevent that in any other manner than a higher level of education. It is highly desirable independently of the problem at hand.

Unless you want tom cruise running your society. :wink:
I've seen this movie, yes :smile:
What a terrible thought you gave me : Tom Cruise as president :frown: :cry:
Only in the US of A actors become presidents :tongue2: :wink:
 
  • #52
Evo said:
It's doubtful that a person that commited a menial crime would be sent to a maximum security prison. That is where the really bad criminals are sent and that is where the type of things that the OP describes go on. Although it's likely to happen in any prison, someone convicted of a white collar crime is going to end up in a country club prison where that kind of behavior is unlikely.

Also, a local or county jail isn't like a federal prison.

This goes some way to make prison a more palatable idea for criminals, staggered degrees of imprisonment.
This guys life is over. 3 DUI's = no life gutted.
Someone should make a poll, whether this guy will kill himself inside prison, outside prison or serve his time and be 'fine'

:yuck:
 
  • #53
I haven't read all the posts, but I think for anyone that drinks and drives this is great punishment. I would have recommended it after the first conviction though. People that drink and drive make me sick.
 
  • #54
This thread reminds me of something a judge said in the movie "office space." :rofl:

To clarify for anyone who did not see it: The main characters stole a lot of money from their company (by mistake, sorta) and the guy is having a dream and the judge looks down at him seriously and says sternly "I hereby sentence you to ten years in a federal pound me in the a-- prison."

I suppose it does show that it is sort of expected in the very tough prisons, as evo pointed out. I wonder how hard the guards work to try to prevent it from happening.
 
Last edited:
  • #55
mattmns said:
I haven't read all the posts, but I think for anyone that drinks and drives this is great punishment. I would have recommended it after the first conviction though. People that drink and drive make me sick.

It was my understanding that it was the first conviction, isn't it 3 strikes and you're out, for americans?


Over here they are more lenient still, especially for young offenders(sometimes they have a catalogue of offenses with no conviction) .


I personally think the prison sentence(minus gang rape) is harsh enough in this case, seeing as there is no actual desire to harm others and all.
 
Last edited:
  • #56
dontdisturbmycircles said:
But does society benefit when they are released? The point should be to try to give prisoners motivation to become a productive part of society, not a hardened criminal who has been sexually abused and psychologically tortured. (although of course it should not resemble a community college, it has to be a punishment.) You should look at it from that point of view too I think. Also, I would guess that the people that tend to be abused are the people who are not as "hardcore", such as people who stole from the grocery store, you think that they should be raped without mercy?

Honestly if they are in prison I just don't really care what happens to them. Prison is pretty easy to avoid, don't do anything wrong, don't cry to me if you end up in jail and bad things happen to you, chances are if you are in jail you did something bad to someone else. I am in no way condoning what is going on in there but at the same time it is pretty easily avoided (ie don't commit a crime) and I have very little sympathy for those in the situation.
 
  • #57
verty said:
Prison is to rehabilitate, Moridin. You've assumed what you wanted to show.



Wrong.

Prison is to keep criminals away from where they can hurt everyone else. Prison isn't about helping criminals--its about protecting innocents.

Granted, that view is entirely reconcilable with a much more humane approach to prison management.
 
  • #58
Prisons are a form of school. Put in a punk a$$ kid, get out a hardened trained criminal.

Wonderful places prisons, I think we need more.
 
  • #59
Integral said:
Prisons are a form of school. Put in a punk a$$ kid, get out a hardened trained criminal.

Wonderful places prisons, I think we need more.
surely gas chambers would be safer in this regard, but that's a big no-no, so we'll have to limit ourselves to prisons so far.
 
  • #60
FranzNietzsche, if prison was to 'keep criminals away' then they would never be released. They are released which implies the purpose is rehabilitation.

One more thing. If you want to find evil, you only need to look for the words "I don't care". That attitude is the root of all evil.

Cyrus, the system ain't broke? Your glasses are so rose-coloured, they fail to resemble reality.
 
  • #61
Good point, Whatta. The death penalty is considered by many to be a no-no, especially because death is often "too good", so we condemn people to live in those prisons with no possibility of parole. Oh, well at least the system ain't broke.
 
  • #62
verty I thought main argument against death penalty was like "oh noes what if system errs and innocent gets killed".
 
  • #63
verty said:
FranzNietzsche, if prison was to 'keep criminals away' then they would never be released. They are released which implies the purpose is rehabilitation.

Then you would have to agree that prisons fail miserably. If you don't, then...well, let's not get into name calling.

On the contrary, the release of prisoners is a recognition that rehabilitation can happen, that people can atone for their mistakes and turn over a new leaf, as it were. But that doesn't happen often.

The idea that prisons are for rehabilitation is silly. Historically, it makes no sense. What has been the purpose behind detention centers in modern times: WWII, Japanese Americans interred out of fear they were spies. Modern-day guantanamo bay--people imprisoned out fear they might be terrorists. People held captive out of fear they will hurt others (not necessarily a justified fear, but that's not the point). Why were the jews rounded up and detained by the Nazis? Out of fear they were a threat to everyone else. Why were pollitical dissidents in russia set to the siberian gulag? To stop them from inciting unrest. Why were french political dissidents sent to devil's island? To stop them from causing unrest. Why were the worst criminals sent to alcatraz? To keep them from escaping to the world where they might commit more crimes. Of course, an equal list can be made for the argument that the purpose of prisons is punishment, most of them centering on how awful prisons have been over the centuries. But you can't make such a case for prisons being for rehabilitation.

The entire idea of a prison goes against the idea of rehabilitation. Holding smoeone against their will goes against the entire idea, unless you assume their will is flawed due to mental illness in which case they should be in a mental hospital, which is intended for rehabilitation, not a prison.

The idea that prisons are for rehabilitation is a fantasy with no basis in reality. You can reasonably argue that prisons SHOULD be for rehabilitation, but you can't argue that they are.

One more thing. If you want to find evil, you only need to look for the words "I don't care". That attitude is the root of all evil.

Yes, that was the attitude behind all the evil atrocities of history. Oh, wait. Nope.

Cyrus, the system ain't broke? Your glasses are so rose-coloured, they fail to resemble reality.

Oh the system is broken, its just a question of how its actually broken.
 
  • #64
humanino said:
We cannot accept torture in prison. Torture can only be justified at war times. Then of course, I should not bring that here, because it all depends what you call war...

What exactly did you mean with this statement?

humanino said:
Did you ever consider that it would be better to execute death-sentenced prisonner on the public place, on Sunday, and that everybody comes and enjoy the show, including children. That is a very good lesson for children if they want to learn that they must behave. It would be much more efficient than execute those people at 6am, where nobody can see it.

Old school ! :devil: :tongue:

dontdisturbmycircles said:
In order to prevent some of these things I think that you would need to assign a prison guard for each person, but that isn't very practical at all.

Yeah, it's definitely not practical, specially not from the financial viewpoint.

cyrusabdollahi said:
So I can get into a rage and kill 10 people and just have someone monitor me? That makes no sense.

Theoretically, the monitoring idea wouldn't apply equally for every type of crime.

humanino said:
One cannot prevent that in any other manner than a higher level of education. It is highly desirable independently of the problem at hand.

Actually, education is not the key, as is often thought. If it is a key, it's a 'second' key. The 'first' one is people net getting enough love. This may sound hippie-like, but it's damn true. Raise someone in an ambient of hatred, and you'll produce a monster, regardless of its education.
 
  • #65
The prison system is a system of punishment for those who have commited crimes, we've established that. The prison system in a lot of countries does not work properly because the prison culture is unchecked and you get examples of gang rape like these. Thus as Integral states prisons become more of a breeding ground for criminals than a rehab. If we therefore impose the same laws in prison as we appropriate in society (and I'm not going to say how we could begin to do this) then I feel a far greater proportion of prisoners will not re-offend when they are released because their bad attitudes have not been allowed to grow in prison.

If you state you do not care about prisoners in prison then I'm sorry but you really are making a rod for your own back. You treat people like crap and they're going to lash straight back at you. If you are hypocritical enough to allow serious criminal acts to take place in prison then you are going to produce disillusioned people angry at a society that's given up on them and they will most likely comit more crimes.
 
  • #66
Kurdt said:
If you are hypocritical enough to allow serious criminal acts to take place in prison then you are going to produce disillusioned people angry at a society that's given up on them and they will most likely comit more crimes.

This is the whole point of the discussion.
 
  • #67
radou said:
What exactly did you mean with this statement?
Ehr... :uhh:
Let's say that this is out of topic o:)
 
  • #68
radou said:
Actually, education is not the key, as is often thought. If it is a key, it's a 'second' key. The 'first' one is people net getting enough love. This may sound hippie-like, but it's damn true. Raise someone in an ambient of hatred, and you'll produce a monster, regardless of its education.
Indeed, you are right :approve:
 
  • #69
please, do not paint criminals as if they "made a mistake". it is not a mistake, it is their choise to commit a crime. you can't fix it neither with punishment nor with rehabilitation. they simply have "guts", or "what it takes", to break the law, even though they know they might get caught and put into prison. so, they are to "most likely commit more crimes" even before they get imprisoned.
 
  • #70
whatta said:
please, do not paint criminals as if they "made a mistake". it is not a mistake, it is their choise to commit a crime. you can't fix it neither with punishment nor with rehabilitation. they simply have "guts", or "what it takes", to break the law, even though they know they might get caught and put into prison. so, they are to "most likely commit more crimes" even before they get imprisoned.

Like I've said before, you are creating problems for yourself that you needn't necessarily have. Of course not all criminals can be reformed and not all will refrain from re-offending but if you abandon them completely or turn a blind eye to the 'culture' of prisons and do nothing then don't wonder about your soaring crime rates.
 
<h2>What is the prevalence of assault in jails?</h2><p>According to a 2018 report by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, an estimated 3.1% of inmates in state and federal prisons reported experiencing sexual victimization in the past 12 months. However, it is important to note that this data is self-reported and may not accurately reflect the true prevalence of assault in jails.</p><h2>What factors contribute to the risk of assault in jails?</h2><p>Factors such as overcrowding, lack of supervision, and inadequate training of staff can contribute to the risk of assault in jails. In addition, individuals who are perceived as vulnerable, such as those who are LGBTQ+ or have a history of mental illness, may be at a higher risk of being assaulted in jail.</p><h2>What are the long-term effects of being assaulted in jail?</h2><p>Being assaulted in jail can have severe and long-lasting effects on a person's physical and mental well-being. Victims may experience physical injuries, post-traumatic stress disorder, and other mental health issues. It can also lead to a mistrust of authority and difficulty reintegrating into society after release.</p><h2>What measures are being taken to prevent assault in jails?</h2><p>Many jails have implemented policies and procedures aimed at preventing assault, such as increased staff training, improved supervision, and the use of body cameras. Additionally, some jails have created specialized housing units for vulnerable populations to reduce their risk of being assaulted.</p><h2>What can be done to support victims of assault in jail?</h2><p>Victims of assault in jail may benefit from access to mental health services, support groups, and legal assistance. It is also important for jails to have a system in place for reporting and addressing assaults, as well as providing resources for victims to seek justice and support. Community support and advocacy for criminal justice reform can also help address the issue of assault in jails.</p>

What is the prevalence of assault in jails?

According to a 2018 report by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, an estimated 3.1% of inmates in state and federal prisons reported experiencing sexual victimization in the past 12 months. However, it is important to note that this data is self-reported and may not accurately reflect the true prevalence of assault in jails.

What factors contribute to the risk of assault in jails?

Factors such as overcrowding, lack of supervision, and inadequate training of staff can contribute to the risk of assault in jails. In addition, individuals who are perceived as vulnerable, such as those who are LGBTQ+ or have a history of mental illness, may be at a higher risk of being assaulted in jail.

What are the long-term effects of being assaulted in jail?

Being assaulted in jail can have severe and long-lasting effects on a person's physical and mental well-being. Victims may experience physical injuries, post-traumatic stress disorder, and other mental health issues. It can also lead to a mistrust of authority and difficulty reintegrating into society after release.

What measures are being taken to prevent assault in jails?

Many jails have implemented policies and procedures aimed at preventing assault, such as increased staff training, improved supervision, and the use of body cameras. Additionally, some jails have created specialized housing units for vulnerable populations to reduce their risk of being assaulted.

What can be done to support victims of assault in jail?

Victims of assault in jail may benefit from access to mental health services, support groups, and legal assistance. It is also important for jails to have a system in place for reporting and addressing assaults, as well as providing resources for victims to seek justice and support. Community support and advocacy for criminal justice reform can also help address the issue of assault in jails.

Similar threads

Replies
19
Views
1K
Replies
9
Views
1K
  • STEM Career Guidance
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
13
Views
4K
  • General Discussion
3
Replies
85
Views
12K
  • General Discussion
Replies
28
Views
3K
  • General Discussion
Replies
1
Views
917
  • Art, Music, History, and Linguistics
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • General Discussion
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
8
Views
4K
Back
Top